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Mail Bag

Thursday, June 18, 1998

Subject: Quake Arena

I have been a multiplayer freak ever since the days of doom, and then online gaming with quake.  I think that id knows they can't please everyone all the time by making a single player game with the added features of multiplayer without too many people complaining about something.  I think they will saving some of their ideas for a single player game for trinity while keeping us interested by giving us quake arena in the mean time.  Basically I think that all quake3 was gonna be was something to do in the mean time before trinity.  That may be a very good move because I think long term popularity of a game is determined by its online or multiplayabilty.  After all those people that play the single player aspect of a game get done with it they only have the multiplayer aspect left.  And there's something to be said about actually combating with another human, no matter how intelligent a bot or monster can be you still know its the computer, not a person.   That's my take on the situation.

thanx

INANE

Subject: Carmack's .plan

Ouch! Carmack must be on drugs of the 3rd kind. First he is going to do it all in Java (what a joke) and now its just going to be multiplayer. Well, say goodbye to Quake's dominant position in action games, because there will be equal or better products which don't snub the single-player component and still offer excellent multiplayer performance.

Oh, well, nothing lasts forever, not even Quake. Heh..

John

Subject: QUaKe ArENa?

Not everyone who Deathmatches has OpenGL cards.
Not everyone deathmatches.
I love SPQ2 .  I always download the latest user-made maps.

-Jason.

Subject: John Carmack's New Shocker: Quake Arena

I guess the beauty of Unreal must have floored Carmack completely!
I love single play!! :(

Scott.

Subject: Quake Arena

Deathmatch-style gaming only?!  What a cop out.   I think its about time the guys at id stop spending all their shekels on turbo-wagons and invest in some talented game designers.

Subject:

All I have to say is if 'Quake Arena' is going to be for multiplayer.. it had better have modem support, unlike Quake II.. but this is still unbelievable.. that id is dumping their singleplayer gaming.. I always thought that id's singleplayer games (Doom, Quake I/II) were awesome.. I personally play all three on a regular basis, both singleplayer, and multiplayer.. so, there had better be bots that come with 'Quake Arena' or, modem support for better multiplayer gaming.. even though I'll probably still buy it.. thanks.....

Cyric the Immortal

Subject:

Sounds like id may be having some direction-choosing problems. Maybe getting a little stressed by all the competition - or is Carmack just getting bored with the whole thing?

What he said about "developing two games at once" is very apt, but also is a thought that should be expanded on: Why not REALLY develop two games at once - two engine variations, one for single player, with the massive entity counts and the depth of graphic detail, and a multiplayer engine that is stripped-down for speed? This was, I think, something like what Quake World was shooting for. Why not double team it - two development teams. The things don't even have to be compatible in any way, even down to map specs. But, they still cover the entire market, and give the competition even more new stuff to worry about.

id IS taking a gamble here - hope they have the market research to back this decision up with.

Subject: Quake Arena and Duke Nukem Forever

This is just too good to be true: Quake goes multiplayer only, Duke4ever goes single player (by using the Unreal engine, which strongest point is Single Player). IMHO both games go in the right direction: Multiplayer always was Quake's strongest point. In fact, single player in Quake sucked. Single player was Duke's strongest point. I think this is a conspiracy. Id & 3D Realms got together and decided to split their interests. Id multiplayer, 3DRealms single player.

Erik

Subject: Quake Arena

Quake Arena sounds great. never really played the single player. the only question I have is: will Quake Arena be an Internet game only? is id Software going to charge us for playing online? I don't think they will but something to thing about.

Subject: Quake Arena Single Player Solution

Dropping single player? I don't think so. If id holds true, Quake Arena will still hold all the customizable features of Q1 & Q2.

I'm sure that there are enough people out there to develop bots, models, skins, and reprogrammed entities into QA to help make a SP game for those of us who still have crappy pings or who don't want to deal with the online llamas out there.

No one should be crying just yet.

Subject: Quake Arena? .. Sure. Bots? .. uhh.

QuakeArena,

It sounds very very cool, and I am so happy id went that way. I never really liked SP anyway. everything sounds great about QA, everything - well.. everything but one thing.. Da man said they'll include bots. right. bots. As Frags said in the PQ editorial, do you really think id can pull this off? (the bots, that is) The way I see it, they should try to snag one of the good bot authors out there while they still can. What about Ponpoko (3ZB), Mike (C.R), Mr Elusive (Omicron) or Frog (Frogbot)? (of course, Mr. Polge wouldn't be a bad idea, but..). All these folks could have coded a bot for QA if they only got a chance - and if I may say so, I think they would have done a helluva job - a lot better than id could have done on their own. I don't say this because I don't have faith in id, it's just that I don't think id will put too much time into the making of a bot.. I hope I'm wrong.

Btw, Dunno 'bout you guys, but I just though I'd include my wish list for mods to include. (It just might be the id folks stop by, you know =)

ROCK ON id! (and please, please, make the weapons unbalanced like quake1 =)

timm

Subject: Quake Arena Question

Quick question.  I was about to write John Carmack and express my disappointment at a network only game when a thought struck me.   Is Quake Arena over SP play JUST for Quake 3, or is this the entire direction to come for Trinity and beyond?  If this is just an attempt to focus on one area to improve it prior to getting on with SP/DM games in the future, then I can certainly appreciate that.

I know that multiplayer gets a lot of press nowadays, but I just can't imagine from a business perspective that more units can be sold for a network only game than for one that includes SP.  I probably buy a dozen games a year, and not a single one is network/online only.  I don't have Ultima Online, C&C Sole Survivor or any of the others.  I usually only get to play a game for 10-30 minutes at a time, so jumping into a SP game that can be saved is really the only way I can do it as a corporate working adult.

Mike Melzer

Subject: Quake Arena

I have to say I'm disappointed with id's decision to drop single player, as a mapper creating single player maps is far more satisfying for me. Single player is the reason I bought quake2 and the recently released mission pack. I do admit that a kickass multiplayer game does sound good, and it would be, but living in the UK internet play is costly, and the only other way, LAN parties, don't happen often enough.  But with Carmack behind Bot AI, we could have great bots for the single player thing. Actually, the more I think about it...

Matt Barnett - gIbBeR

Subject: Quake III Multiplayer Bliss

Cheers to id Software for bucking the system and dumping the SP.  I was getting sick of every company blasting the false lies that their game would solve the multi-play problem.  Well finally we have a company with balls to address the issue, yeah.  I mean get real guys, SP is fun and all, but where do the majority of people play... ON THE NET.  So when you look at Unreal with its smooth graphics, but lousy net play, you have to wonder who drooped the ball, them, or us for not bitching enough. Thanks again to the pioneers at ID for pushing the envelope, be assured that we will buy Q3 for the sole reason that the world loves ID..... Not to mention that a level playing field is needed on the net, look out all you low pingers, retribution is close at hand   I hope :).

Subject: Quake Arena

This has to be the best idea id has ever come up with.  The only reason Quake and Quake2 have such longevity is because of internet play. They were out done in single player by Unreal, but who cares?!  I played SPQ all the way through once.  It's not going to be something different the next time around.  Same goes for Unreal.  There is no better FPS game played over the internet than Quake/Quake2.  Not Unreal, not Hexen2....nothing.  Check mate.

James Massara - [P2]Geburah

Subject: Quake Arena

Tell Carmack and co. to keep it. Go ahead and release the ultimate prima donna  game for themselves while continuing to alienate the single player support base. Internet play while amusing is still just novelty until the alternatives to the 56k limit become affordable to the masses. How many publishers are going to support a product that appeals to an insignificant market share?

Subject: Quake3 Announcement

Ok.
Everyone's FREAKING OUT about the "newest version" of Quake not having Single Player.

Do you realize how many FPS games are coming out this summer/fall?

Why would id need to make -another- single player game? For once, they can concentrate on making an outstanding multiplayer experience.

Will people still have as much fun playing TeamFortress in Half-Life as they will makin' blood fountains out of other players with their RL? id developed the technology. id moved it forward and made it a world wide hit.

Trust these guys a little.
They know what they're doing  :)

Subject: Quake3 Announcement

I saw some mail about id's Quake Arena announcement in your MailBag, so I decided to write about it myself. This is an extension to what I wrote on my site (http://levelzone.telefragged.com) yesterday.

I realize that multiplayer is the thing that keeps games alive. I realize that a game cannot survive very long without multiplayer that works. But what I think id doesn't realize is many people buy the game JUST for the single player (like those with crappy ISP's, etc), and some people, like me, enjoy both single player and multiplayer games. I always felt that single player was an important aspect of a game, and it can make or break a game. Even though it wasn't spectacular, Quake2 single player was a great leap from Quake1 SP. I figured that maybe with one more game, id would finally make a truly awesome SP. I guess I was wrong.

Another factor to consider is levels. Now, I realize the majority of players out there don't make levels and don't care to, but many people do. Single player levels, both making and playing them (and reviewing them, like me), was a big part of Quake2. I only downloaded one or two user-made multiplayer levels, just for the fact that nobody plays them. I downloaded more than 70 single player levels, and played them all. Now, without the option to make SP levels, many users will probably turn to other games for SP.

Good or bad, id has done what they felt they needed to do, and that's that. I only hope they know what their doing, or this could be the biggest mistake they ever made. Or, if they pull it off great, it could be the best thing they've ever done. I guess only time will tell.

Subject: Carmack's New Direction with the Quake Arena

I've got to hand it to John, I think this step is going to a big seller for him. If you take a look at what is going on now, you see a lot of people who are buying Quake and Quake2 just to play multiplayer. They don't even care about the game. Also from a different perspective, it almost looks like it's going to be like those console fighting games, you know Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat, Streetfighter II <--(God I feel old, I remember when PONG was the coolest game) etc.. Look how those games did, 80 billion sequels and people just want more. I think this idea will do very well for just the fact that going to an all deathmatch game is what people have wanted for a long time. "And even in a fake democracy, people should get what they want at least some of the time" - George Carlin

BeoWulf`

Subject: Quake Arena

It's hard to know what to make of id's decision to make a multi-player only game this time around.  I'm wondering what the motivation behind the move really is.  From a business perspective it seems risky.   Although the most consistently vocal and active segment of the so-called "Quake Community" is made up of individuals whose focus is strictly on multi-player and online gaming, I believe (I could be wrong) that the largest part of id's customer base consists of people who buy their games for the single-player aspect.   Maybe id wants to work toward removing this irony by making multi-player FPS gaming more efficient and accessible.

On the other hand, maybe id is just choosing their battles according to where they clearly have an advantage.  Other FPS titles being released this year either have delivered or are promising a very deep single-player experience.  Although I think Quake II was clearly the best single-player FPS when it was released, its gameplay virtues will probably be surpassed by several other titles this season.

When it comes to bots being included in the game, I think this is a good decision if executed well.  I am a fan of the Eraser bot, as it displays a decent simulation of a human player (although I wouldn't call it "intelligent") and makes for a good quick game.  I would rather play deathmatch and CTF with other humans (and I really enjoy it when I have the opportunity), but I rarely have the time required to get a LAN game together and often internet play seems annoying.

All in all, I would like to see id develop another ground breaking FPS game with an innovative "push the envelope" single-player game.  But I don't want this at the expense of their multi-player fans.  So my real hope is that they will be very successful with Quake Arena and then go on from there to re-awaken the promises of Trinity and create a mind blowing first person game.   And although I think id is capable of this, they may find themselves in the unfamiliar position of playing catch-up in the single-player area by then.

Mark Robinson

Subject: Mailbag: Quake Arena

Hmm...I think they're admitting that they can't effectively do single player.

Also, dare I say this is one-up-manship with 3DRealms' DNF announcement? Dare I?

Sure, id has excellent netcode, and great multiplayer.  But is a multiplayer experience everything?  Hell no.  And what if you aren't connected to the net?  Then you're screwed.

AI bots? Yea maybe, if they can write the AI to actually do more than just scripts.  If they can actually make the artificial players good, but not perfect, it could work.  But I doubt it.  No one's come up with decent AI yet.  Yea, yea, Unreal's is okay but it's nothing like what they said it would be.  Monsters shouldn't always come charging you, some should lie in wait.   If they know they're gonna die, they should run, or go grab a powerup or something.   I haven't ever seen a monster go grab a powerup.  I don't think gamers are really even ready for that. "Hey...!  That's MINE!"

What I would love to see is a game that has the real deal when it comes to co-op play.  Now THAT would rock the house, AND if the bots had decent AI they might be able to pull it off.  All I'm seeing in this announcement is Rocket Arena 3.

Malcolm Moore

Subject: Quake Arena

I'm in Clan R3v, so I think the move to multi-player only is the best thing id could possibly do (providing they make some good levels and have good weapon balance (doom2 :)).

I just want to point out to the people crying about no single player that there will be some sort of ladder system for playing alone where you play against bots.  If Carmack and company can make a omicron+frog bot cross (the two best quake bots, IMO) the single player of Quake Arena will be a blast, I play bots 1-2 hrs a day and it's a lot of fun and a great way to hone your aim and movement skills.

rj

Subject: Quake Arena: A Less than Original Idea?

I wrote quite a vehement and sarcastic letter to PlanetQuake's mailbag about this yesterday.  Reading it over this morning I realized it was a bit over the top :)....so I figured I should probably write a more coherent letter to your mailbag before I get stoned by hordes of rabid Quakers.

On February 7, 1998,  I got a letter published in PlanetQuake's mailbag talking about the future of FPS games:  http://www.planetquake.com/mailbag/mailbag2-7.shtm.   Read it (the last line is beautiful), and make your own conclusions.

Geoff Cruttwell(Goff)

P.S.  If you publish this(I sincerely hope so), you can include my e-mail address.  I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this.

Subject: (MailBag) Quake Arena

Those guys at ID have big balls. There is no doubt in my mind they are doing The Right Thing. SP is great, wow look at me, I'm killing things, oh there's a rat, look at that bird, blah blah blah. But the experience is over in a day or two, and what are you left with for your hard earned 49.95 plus tax???? MULTIPLAYER.

After buying unreal, and being <rant> very disappointed that single player barely runs on my pent 133 with 64 megs of ram and a frickin voodoo 1 card </rant>, I am now convinced that a game that tries to be everything will fail somewhere.

The future is multiplayer, eventually the multiplayer experience will be so rich, so dynamic, there will be no need for single player games. WOOOP

Ralph "tesh" g

Subject: Long Live Quake

It's been 6 months since Quake 2 came out and what are we all still playing? DM and Mods. How many times can you go over the single player game? I think id is on to something good as usual! They're right on the money. It is a big gamble but wait and see. The world will be watching the Masters again. DM doesn't include monsters anymore, remember? Use Bots if you want to play by yourself or have no access to the net.

P.S. The 1st Person Shooter is getting very overcrowded regardless of how good your game can be. There is just too many coming down the pike. Besides the future of gaming is on-line.

Mortus
Clan Kevorkian

Subject: Quake Arena and International Single Players

OK several people, especially out here in non US land where, pay attention you at the back, we have to pay for local phone bills, are going to moan like hell about Quake Arena. I suspect the UK gaming media will have a field day with it. But I think these people will miss a big point, you will still be able to play single player against bots.

Lets take a step back a minute, you play racing games on your PlayStation yeah? you play against the lads when they come round but for the most part you are playing on your own against  CPU controlled cars. The games are still excellent though aren't they? You compete in leagues etc in F1 games, or to beat a time etc. There is no reason Quake Arena won't give you the same satisfaction. Frankly FPS games have been really passe and dull in recent years. OK the internet side is where its happened for the US players, but for UK gamers with hefty telco bill's and small online gaming community, the Single player game is all you get. Quake was very dull, Jedi Night plain and lifeless, Quake 2 - too little too late. The last best FPS game was Doom. Doom had a real edge in the gameplay area (something overlooked by most US softcos in their pursuit of woosh bang visuals).

Quake Arena could increase the tempo of single player FPS genre gameplay and I reckon it will actually be a better 1 player game than Unreal et al..

Subject: Quake Arena

WOW!

If this an Id tactic to really determine the popularity of the single player mode of the Quake series of games, it has worked on this gamer. Half of MY pleasure has been derived from the single player game, and of course I deathmatch my butt off.  Can you say "half of a game?".

At least now they won't have to try to figure out how to make single player saves compatible from patch to patch..

Subject: Quake III No SP

I have to say I agree with Anthony Conner with regard to this. I personally will not be getting any game that is DM/MP only for one simple reason: I can't afford to rack up what would be a massive phone bill (yes, we poor plebes in the UK have to pay for our local calls as well as out ISP bills) playing insomniacs in another country (or even my own for that matter).

Shame on id. I don't honestly believe a 'bot ranking system SP game with levels which are, by John C's own admission, going to be less detailed than those in Q2, will be a hit with those of us who sadly have to stay single. Many will buy it purely for the name, and I'm sure it will be a big hit anyway, but unfortunately for me I won't be there to see it.

Subject: Quake Arena

Congratulations id!

At last they made that wonderful decision many of us have been waiting for for so long. Their sales figures might go down a bit, but without the mix of two designs in one game the fans should be a LOT happier and the game experience should be MUCH better.

The DM and Singleplayer games both grew out of their shoes and, in the end, they had to be separated. I´m glad the id guys realized that. And id really doesn´t have the resources to compete with a singleplayer experience like Duke4 or Half-life. Ids strongest competitive edge right now is net play and innovative graphics engines. Design-wize they excel when doing simple, but perfect gameplay. All these strongpoints fit a project like Quake Arena.

I hate to see the 'aggressive graphics technologies' go away though. Even if Quake Arena is a good decision, it seems like id have changed their minds in order to get a game out as soon as possible and cut down on development cycles. In the process they have wasted six months of solid work since Quake2 was released.

But I sure prefer playing Quake Arena with perfect deathmatch than have to experience a brand new engine with a game design that is as simplistic as Quake singleplayer.

/needles

Subject: Quake Arena Approval

My playing ratio for Multiplayer Quake to Single Player Quake was AT LEAST   100:1. But is seemed in the past id's time spent on MP to SP was about 1:10.

For me Quake has always been a multiplayer experience...that is what made it fun for me. I bought Q2, played SP for about 3 hours and then waited for CTF to come out. I am still waiting for more than 4 CTF levels!

This move is correct. It allows id to concentrate on what makes Quake fun for most people... the online multiplayer experience!

Tony "Trephine" Adams

Subject: Quake Arena

I think what Id is doing is a good move game wise (I think the possibilities of a deathmatch oriented game by an accomplished group of 3d shooter developers is a good change of pace), it is also a good move financially.  To have put out a single player oriented game into the soon to be flooded market of 3D shooters would have been commercial suicide and they probably would have had a hard time competing with the oncoming slew of games that are boasting features in single play out their blast doors. (Half-Life, Sin, DNF, etc.)

I think they're making the right decision and I certainly will be getting a copy of this when it's released.  It's a fresh idea and I think it will create an even greater online following than ever before. And I hope they have a capture the dopefish game.. that'd rock! ;)

Subject: Quake Arena

I truly love this idea. In theory this is a great thing for both id and the fans. This let's id concentrate on the part of a game that makes it a classic. Now...in "theory" this is good. Whether or not id pulls it off will have to be seen (Although they're 5 for 5 so far starting from Wolf3d). Instead of wasting 18 months making an ok single player and great mulitplayer, they can make an unbelievable mulitplayer in about half that time (probably more since they're supposed to be changing the graphics engine dramatically). Just think about single play for a second:

Everyone plays it and beats in within 4 hours, then never plays it again.

Yet companies spend about 60%+ of their time making this single player "experience". Quake is the most revolutionary game in computer gaming history (yes, even beyond Doom). And this is because and ONLY because of the multiplayer. That says a lot.

-Woburn

Subject: New Quake 3 Reaction

I've been devout follower of the FPS since Wolfenstein 3-d way back when, but nothing gets my adrenaline pumping more than deathmatch, especially multi-player. Quake/Quake II were the first FPS's that I never finished the single player games on, due to the fact that DM is so much more fun. I've been playing Unreal lately, and I have to say, fighting *smart* monsters is infinitely more appealing. A game devoted to *making it through the ranks* of smarter and smarter bots will make me a better overall player in terms of online multi-player, and that is definitely a solid framework to build on.

If I was a more accomplished map maker, I would build a map solely devoted to polishing movement/engagement techniques. A sort of "Obstacle Course" of sorts with inanimate moving targets, tricky floor bumps to navigate, etc.

I think Quake 3 will be an outstanding training arena for the "real world" of me-vs-you online gaming.  Spare me the half-gigabyte of "save game;kill monster;save game; repeat ad infinitum drudgery.

Cliff Anderson.

Subject: MailBag

Bias ----> First off I am definitely buying Quake Arena as I already play Q2 DM, often for hours a day. For me there's simply no question that Q2 DM play is bucketloads of fun. I appreciate that id is making the ultimate in multiplayer-fps at the expense of all else. This type of game suits my "want list" perfectly.

Analysis ----> For a long time id software has been making multiplayer fps. They are now "good" at making them. In general I find that people enjoy doing what they are good at. So it appears obvious that id would prefer to do a multi only game and abandon the single player "homework" necessary to fill out the game.

But this is only part of the equation: id has been licensing their engines to other companies for some time and these companies brag about how they are improving on the single player experience from q2, and I'm sure they ARE doing a better job. While single player in q2 was serviceable, it certainly wasn't innovative. Q2 is a great technology showcase and that is what pulls the player through single player.

Think about this for a minute: how much MORE desirable is it for a developer to license a state of the art game engine that has NO single player story in it, vs. the same game engine with single player already. So far the Quake licensees have aimed far more for storyline. So it makes a lot of sense for id economically: Sell to the fan base, sell to the more enticed developer to make some really great single player with another game based on the same engine, all the while id coders are working on what they like (more enjoyment of work=better quality of work=better game). It looks like a Win/win/win situation, which is a Good Thing(tm).

Commentary ---> Quake Arena is not going to be an Ultima Online -- it is a hell of a lot easier to make a fps than an online universe of UO's scale, the "enjoyment target" is a LOT easier to hit. So we can stop the UO comparisons right now. Nevertheless, multi-only games (Subspace, The Realm, Meridian 59, and many I'm sure I've missed) have limited saleability. That is from a computer game retailer's experience -- hype boosted sales at the start but they've all dropped off considerably (even UO). My customers are dedicated to computer only gaming, but a large part of them them are just not interested in modem/internet hassles and cost. Diablo is a good example of this: decent single player, awesome multiplayer with a bulletproof netplay interface - it cannot get any easier than this to play multiplayer - Quake included. Still, when I talk to Diablo addicts I am always surprised to find that 5/10 of them have NEVER played on B.net. I can encourage them, plead with them, and get them excited about multiplayer, but when they go home it's still too much hassle. These are NOT "bad players" or "lamers" or whatever, they just like to play without any frustration -- is that too much to ask?

Bots do not make a compelling single player game. Its fun to challenge yourself or practice against them to improve your skills, but it is not as entertaining as a "story" or even a trite "mission set". Example: what is more fun: StarCraft melee vs one computer (or many), or the StarCraft campaigns with all the background story?

Conclusion ---->  As easy to set up and powerful as Game Spy is, it is still not at the level of Battle.net, which is itself not enticing enough for 5/10 newbies to use (see above). To generate an ever-growing fan base, Quake Arena would need a Win-based GUI that is even more brain-dead easy to use AND which begs the player to use it MORE than GameSpy or even B-net. Is this possible? If not, then Quake Arena cannot be as big a seller as would have Quake 3 (with single player). It will have a large, computer and internet savvy fan base, some percentage of which will buy the game and some percentage of which will pirate the game (Bad Thing(TM)). With continued competition from rival (3DR, Epic Megagames, MS) or even complimentary game developers (Ion Storm, Raven, Ritual) the core populace's loyalty to Quake Arena is subject to some degree of shrinkage -- meaning id software must rely more on engine sales to developers. Is this a good thing for loyal Quake fans?

[MS]Demo_Boy

Subject: Stat for Quake Arena

I thought you might find this statistic interesting in light of the recently announced Quake Arena.
In Monday's Wall Street Journal there was an article on the next generation of console games. When comparing it to PC's, they talked about the PC's online capability, etc. They mentioned a statistic from Activision who said that they believe less than 10% of Quake 2 players play online. This is a bold move for id if this statistic is true. Here's the quote:

Not everyone thinks on-line games are a cure-all. Figures show that 70% of PC games are played alone, and Activision Inc., a Santa Monica, Calif., game maker, believes that fewer than 10% of the fans of Quake II, an on-line shoot-'em-up, play the multiplayer version.

Kauffee

Subject: id is Trying to do What they Should have Done First?

When Quake first cane out I called it deja doom. While quake felt, and played completely different than Doom, there were still many "Doom" element there. Example, compare the thin story line of Doom (the first one, not Doom 2 or any of the others) to Quake's. Teleporters are developed and hideous creatures come out and kill people. You need to kick their asses. Well Quake 2 had a a little parallel to Doom 2, it was more developed in SP, there are other thing too, but I won't get into them. Well, Doom never died out. In fact with all the Doom projects gong on now, Doom may consume more bandwidth than Quake. I'm sure the id boys are kicking themselves for not exploiting Doom more. I think it is this lesson that has sparked the Quake Arena. I think id forged themselves a second chance. Go to it id! it isn't everyday that people get a second chance at something.

Subject: id and Quake 3

Short and sweet and sour
Now I ride the fence on Quake Arena ; IF the network code is that awesome it may be for the best. oh yeah another nice thing would be if they release a finished product for a change?!?! I don't play as much SPQ as I do bot combat. I can safely say the single player aspect will be handled I am sure, Someone will create levels and paks. Zerstorer? well it was something like that? That addon was free and better that most commercial addons, and most freebies too. I think if ID puts enough bot code into the game to really have some good 1on1 dm's on your own pc, they will have another groundbreaking smash, akin to streetfighter. I still stop and drop a coin into Killer Instinct any time I see one for the thrills of beating down some intelligent opponents.

Subject: MailBag Letter re: Quake Arena

I just wanted to offer a reaction to the announcement from id Software that they would now work on a multiplayer based game, Quake Arena, rather than the single-player based Quake 3 previously announced.

My background is very much in the single-player experience. Whilst a university student, although a potential LPB I always shied away from deathmatch since I was sure it would eat up the little time I still had left for sleep (c: after indulging my single-player interests (centered around Quake done Quick, which itself is very much an attempt to perfect _single-player_ play.)

My current interests remain in this area, along with a growing fascination with the possibilities offered by machinema (i.e. using game engines such as the Quake one as a medium in which to tell stories.) This is another area that I can't see benefiting from the latest announcement, since as Carmack said, the multiplayer experience means that detailed visuals are less of a priority than fast network-based play.

Despite all this, I'm writing to applaud the decision id have taken. It's timely (possibly to the extent of being riskily pre-emptive) as network connectivity is only just beginning to reach the level of market penetration where a game like this could be a commercial success. And though the possibilities offered by human interaction in gaming are proven, we are still only at the beginning of exploring them.

Innovation is something id Software have consistently done well. My intuition is that although there remain many wonderful opportunities for improvements in the technology underlying the first-person shooter, the greatest potential for advance is in fusing that technology with multiplayer game design. This, I think, is the cutting edge for the evolution of computer gameplay, and the cutting edge is where I most like to see id Software working.

Anthony

Subject: Bots Cooler than Monsters, TF-like Monsters,John Cash Pissed Off

If Quake Arena won't have SP, that's fine. I don't mind not having monsters to kill when playing offline, as long as I have some tough kick ass BOTS to play with in DM, CTF, Rocket Arena (or whatever multiplayer mods included with QArena)

About multiplayer mods, I was seriously hoping id had made a contract with TFS to include TeamFortress III or something in Quake 3 before Valve Software made it's move, but anyways, if you guys could come up with a TF-like mod for Quake Arena, that would totally rock -- that is, any multiplayer mod with 'multiple classes' and a focus on 'team strategy'. I'm not suggesting a TF rip-off or anything!

I agree with John Cash feeling offended about PQ's editorial when they said he couldn't make bots with AI better than Unreal's. I just hope he comes up with some *nasty kick-ass fuzzy-logic neural-networking heuristical-whatever* bots for Quake Arena just to prove us all how good an AI programmer he actually is.

Dan 'Neurobasher' Gomes

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