Name: Brian Hook
Project: Quake 3 Arena
// All personal musings on my part are available at:
// All GMB related e-mail sent to me at id software will be
// deleted unread
May 24, 1999
I made an amusing observation today. In general, much of my benchmark
related e-mail can be summed up into the following template:
[My favorite video card lost] and I noticed that [you were emphasizing
things that my favorite video card isn't very good at] and I think to
be fair you should [emphasize the things that my favorite video card
does really well and that its competitors' do not]. It's obvious
that you have a bias otherwise. Please stop [bashing my favorite video
card by posting scores that make it look bad] and try to be fair in
the future since [some threat I'm supposed to care about].
Rabid Fan of [Favorite Video Card]"
Three (fictitious) examples would be:
I checked out your latest scores, and I have to admit that I'm a little
disappointed. The S3 Savage4 completely kicked the crap out of the
competition at lower resolutions, but for some reason you put in these
completely bogus 1280x1024 numbers, as if anyone cares. In the future
try sticking with realistic tests, not this contrived crap that no one
cares about. I used to really respect your benchmarks, but it's obvious
that you're just trying to sell more video cards and getting sloppy
with your coding."
or, on the flip side:
Man, the G400 MAX OWN3Z!!!! YEAH! I'm surprised you didn't emphasize
its performance at 1280x1024, since it completely r0x0r3d the TNT (HAHA)
at that res. I mean, seriously, who plays at 640x480?! NO ONE DUDE. If
you think people still play at 640x480, you are SERIOUSLY out of touch
with people. My brother and clan mates ALL play at 1024x768 (on G200,
MATROX RUL3Z!), and we can't remember the last person we saw play at 640.
You need to ditch those 640 numbers cos they're misleading people into
getting some L4M3R board like a TNT2. D3wd, it's almost the new
millenium (heh, get it?), isn't it time to get away from 640?!"
and finally, the obligatory 3Dfx fanatic:
"Dumbas--I mean, Brian,
When will you get your head out your ass? NO ONE CARES ABOUT 32-BIT!!
It's stupid to list the numbers, 16-bit looks the same (and V3 has
22-bit, you should know this), and V3 OWNS TNT2. WHO CARES about
1280x1024?! EVERYONE plays at 1024, and you didn't even test that,
what kind of dumb crap is THAT?! Man, I can't believe you're even
allowed to type code at id if you think people care about 32-bit or
1280x1024. Do us a favor, and get a 3500 and test it THEN post
results, because until you do you're not doing anyone any favors by
posting MISLEADING information."
I've got TNT2 Ultra numbers up using pre-production drivers on the
Celeron 400. Will have TNT2 Ultra numbers up for the PIII/500 once
we get those done:
May 22, 1999
The obligatory post-benchmark followup. In no particular order:
- no, I'm not going to run [insert resolution] here
- no, I'm not going to run on [insert hardware] here
I get about twenty e-mails after we do benchmarks, all of which are with
the following template:
"Brian, I don't get it, how in the world do you think those benchmarks are
valid?! EVERYONE knows that you should run the benchmark at XxY resolution
in Z bits of color on a XYZ CPU! Duh! And I can't believe you didn't
test on a ABC accelerator, they're real popular!"
The scores I posted aren't meant to indicate absolute in-game performance,
they are to show where the relative strengths and capabilities of different
accelerators lie. If I was to try to show you what YOU, yes YOU specifically,
will see in a game, I may as well just have everyone e-mail me their system
configs and run a custom benchmark for each of you. Needless to say, we
don't have that kind of time. Eric's cheap, but he's not THAT cheap. :-)
For everyone one of you that says 1024x768 is THE resolution, there's another
one that says 512x384 is the only relevant resolution. For everyone one of
you that says I HAVE to test on a PII/266, there's another one that wants
to see it on a K6-3 450 or a PIII/550 or a Pentium/166.
I don't expect users to run 1280x1024 (except maybe on a Matrox G400 MAX),
but I do want users to have a reasonable expectation of whether their hardware
CAN support higher resolutions effectively. Etc. etc.
May 21, 1999
Yay, more benchmarks! Wheee!
Check out http://www.idsoftware.com/bwh/benchmarks.html for the numbers
in tabulated HTML form. Thanks again goes out to Eric Webb, our trusty
in-house benchmarker, for doing the tiring task of swapping cards, installing
drivers, writing stuff down, rinse, repeat.
The new additions are throughput tests on an AST machine with an Intel Celeron
400MHz CPU. We didn't include the 32-bpp or 1280x1024 numbers since
those numbers likely won't change appreciably between a Celeron and PentiumIII
(since they're effectively differences in the graphics accelerator, not the
The truly relevant scores for us are:
- Celeron 400 @ 640x480x16bpp
- PIII/500 @ 640x480x16bpp
- PIII/500 @ 1280x1024x16bpp
- PIII/500 @ 1280x1024x32bpp
We also have some new additions, including a Riva128ZX, Savage4, V3 2K, and
a Matrox G400 MAX. We didn't test the ZX or V3 2K on the PIII/500 due to
From this data we can gather the following interesting information:
- performance penalty for 16-bit vs. 32-bit for each accelerator
- whether hardware is being saturated, and by inference, whether a driver
could use more optimization
If dlights are disabled, then the V3 actually pulls ahead of the Savage4,
likely due to faster texture upload performance on the V3 and its drivers.
Performance Hit for 32-Bit
Rage128 @ 640x480: 12%
Rage128 @ 1280x1024: 28%
RivaTNT @ 640x480: 12%
RivaTNT @ 1280x1024: 48%
RivaTNT2 @ 640x480: 4%
RivaTNT2 @ 1280x1024: 40%
Matrox G200 @ 640x480: 0% (driver maxed out?)
Matrox G200 @ 1280x1024: 28%
Matrox G400 MAX @ 1280x1024:13% (16-bit Z-buffer)
S3 Savage3D @ 640x480: 36%
The difference in cost for 32-bit at the different resolutions has to do with
the different bottlenecks encountered at each resolution. At 640x480, you're
looking at driver/CPU limitations. At 1280x1024, you're pretty much looking
at pure graphics hardware limitations. The 1280x1024 numbers give you a
good indicator of the absolute cost of 32-bit rendering that the hardware
incurs. The 640x480 numbers give you the real world cost if you're interested
in better visual quality but don't know how much performance you'll be
giving up. At 640x480 the performance loss isn't that huge because much of
the time being spent is feeding triangles to the accelerator.
Performance Gain from Celeron 400 to PIII 500
These numbers are fairly easy to interpret. Since, ideally, performance would
scale by ~25% moving from a 400MHz CPU to a 500MHz CPU, we'll be able to make
some assumptions based on the actual performance difference. If the
performance increase is LOWER than 25%, this implies that the hardware is
saturated. If the performance boost is GREATER than 25%, this implies that
the drivers have some room for optimization on the Celeron and/or that they
are tuned for SSE instructions on the PIII.
Note that these are tested at 640x480x16bpp, since this mode emphasizes
G400 MAX +32.7%
Voodoo3 3K +9.8%
S3 Savage4 +8.6%
Voodoo Banshee +6.8%
S3 Savage3D +2.3%
Intel i740 +2.0%
So the faster hardware, in general, clusters near the top, since it doesn't
get saturated by the slower Celeron 400. So hardware near the bottom of the
list is pretty much screaming for mommy even on a Celeron 400, hardware near
the top of the list is begging for more.
The Voodoo2 number is anomalous, so I'm going to retest that at some point,
and I also hope to put up numbers for our SGI and Intergraph workstations.
Holy Mother of Moses, did you see those G400 MAX scores at 1280x1024?! That
is pure devastation in fill rate the likes we have not seen in years. Now,
granted, they are running with a 16-bit Z-buffer, but still...those are
pretty awe inspiring numbers.
Now, the flip side is that they're NOT the fastest at 640x480, which means
that their throughput (i.e. drivers) could use some work.
The Savage4 made a good showing, however we have the caveat that this was
using pre-production drivers delivered directly from S3. We hope that they
will release up to date drivers soon for the Savage4. Also, the Savage4
numbers at 32-bit were using a 16-bit Z-buffer, so they had a slight
advantage there also.
TNT2 didn't take top honors in many of the fields, just the 640x480x32bpp
numbers, however it has the distinction of being very close to the top in
nearly all tests, so it's probably the best all around board if you care
about high res and 32bpp. TNT still is putting a way respectable showing,
and I've seen those Creative TNT boards now for as low as $79. That is as
close to a no-brainer as I've seen in a long time.
Voodoo2/3 is still putting in a very admirable show, albeit only in low
res modes (Voodoo2) and 16-bit. While its performance is above that of
the TNT2 in the 16bpp modes, it's not so far ahead as to have a dominating
lead. And it still pales in comparison to the G400 MAX.
We received some TNT2 Ultra boards, but I couldn't get them to work. When
those fire up for us I'll post the numbers, and maybe the landscape will
Those G400 MAX numbers are high enough that I'm nervous about them, as in
maybe I did something wrong, but so far I've run the tests on several machines,
and it's pretty difficult to cheat with your drivers when you're fill rate
May 17, 1999
Bernd Kreimeier passed this along from the magazine C't:
References: german journal "c't computer technik",
see www.ct.heise.de (unfortunately, no online
version of these articles).
c't 26/98, 21.12.1998, pp. 186-187
"AGP-Reibereien", by Manfred Bertuch
subtitled: "Stability problems of Super Socket 7
mainboards with AGP graphics cards".
Rough translations of some parts (errors be mine):
"test indicate that there are serious stability
problems with Super Socket 7 mainboards with 100MHz
FSB, if you are using an AMD K6-2 CPU and an AGP
board with the nVidia Riva TNT. In our tests the
demo loop of Quake II (patch level 3.19) proved to
be very sensitive for this. This game creates a lot
of graphics load, especially vsync disabled (timedemo 1),
and uses multitexturing. Tested were 4 mainboards with
ALi-Aladdin-V chipset (Asus P5A, Micro-Star MS5169)
and VIA-MVP3 chipset (A-Trend ATC-5200, AOpen AX59Pro),
two K6-2/300 CPU's (production weeks A9821 and A9814)
and three TNT boards (V3400TNT, Viper550, ErazorII),
The article goes through BIOS and driver versions and
patch requirements, install details and other potential
pitfalls, PC BIOS configuration settings tried etc.
Various combinations "locked the PC within 10 minutes
of the Quake II demo loop". At that time, the article
stated that "the problem [seems] to be TNT specific,
as tests with 3Dfx' Banshee (Monster Fusion) and
Matrox G200 (Millenium) did not show any problems over
an hour's [loop]". Disabling Vsync makes the problems
more prevalent. They could not find any effect of heat,
but they did find a dependency on which CPU was used - the
same PC was a lot less stable with the A9821 CPU. The
MS5169 boards was less stable than the P5A. They could
not find similar problems with VIA based boards. Their
conclusion: "vendors obviously had varying success in
building upon the Aladdin-V chipset. In addition, the
system's behavior is affected by [production] deviations in
the AMD CPU's."
One followup I saw was in c't 7/99, 29.3.1999, p. 32,
"Neue AGP-Reibereien", again by Manfred Bertuch:
"Using the ATI Rage Fury with the Rage 128 chip on
an Asus P5A causes either system crashes, or Win98
fails to assign resources (black screen). Tests
were done with ATI's driver release 4.11.6060 and
Asus BIOS 1005. The most likely cause are bugs in
the ALi chipset that improved BIOS revisions
supposedly circumvent during initialization." They
reported that, using the BIOS 1006 upgrade, the problems
seemed to have vanished for their test system.
I have found (with my own P5A and Elsa Erazor II, Win NT,
all Asus BIOS revisions, ErazorII BIOS revisions and
driver revisions, and the more frequent revisions of
Nvidia reference drivers) that the TNT also suffered
from randomly occuring performance drops and stuttering,
and have heard similar reports from others. I suspect that
there are a lot of PC users that own a not-too-optimal
combination of AMD CPU, ALi chipset, and graphics card
(any vendor) that is not robust at high AGP traffic - it
doesn't always have to be a crash.
The 26/98 article quoted Asus to state that, while Intel
BX chipsets had been overclocked in their labs up to 30%
w/o problems, the ALi chipsets have a lot less of a safety
I would not be surprised if Quake III, even more than its
predecessor, will prove to be an excellent grinder for PC's,
revealing hidden and intermittent problems. Given the amount
of BIOS updates and driver updates I have seen since I bought
my system, the problem seems to be hard to solve (up to the
point of motherboard manufacturers providing BIOS patches
specifically for a certain graphics chip). Unfortunately, the
issue potentially raises questions of warranty returns, and
motherboard vendors as well as graphics board vendors are more
or less passing the blame (dealing with Elsa "support" did not
get me anywhere, as did their NT driver updates).
With respect to Quake III: if you combine a problem specific
to combinations of hardware and possibly due to production
dependend timing tolerances, with beta "Quake 3 certified"
driver releases, you might end up with a mess in which there
is simply no solid ground to stand upon.
May 16, 1999 (early PM)
If you have an ALi mainboard chipset, make sure you have the latest
drivers from: http://www.ali.com.tw Some users have reported that
a lot of their problems went away after upgrading their mainboard
A reminder: if you're having problems, make sure you're not overclocking
Also, some people have sent me e-mail, but they have invalid e-mail addresses
so I can't respond. Make sure you have a valid e-mail address if you expect
May 16, 1999 (early AM, part 2)
I think I found one source of bugs for people using Win95 (pre-OSR2) --
that didn't have OPENGL32.DLL with it (at least, one that supported
the correct hardware rendering interface). This wasn't included until
Win95 OSR2. GLSETUP handles this situation just fine, but if you
download some IHV driver sets (e.g. Banshee) for Win95 then those
driver sets MAY not be installing an up to date OPENGL32.DLL.
This is something hopefully 3Dfx et. al. will look into.
May 16, 1999 (early AM)
A common question I get is "Why didn't you benchmark a TNT2 Ultra?" Pretty
simple answer there -- I don't have one. The Erazor III boards I have
were supplied by NVidia, but the only Ultras I have are pre-production
boards, which I'm leery to test with. I've been visiting CompUSA and
Fry's twice a week now waiting for a production TNT2 to show up, but
still no luck.
This is the same reason I haven't tested with a V3500 -- they're not in
production, therefore I can't really test with one.
The best part of all this is that I have a bunch of pro-3Dfx people telling
me I have an "obvious bias" for NVidia since I didn't test on the 3500 and
recommended the TNT. Then I have just as many pro-NVidia people telling me
that I have an "obvious bias" for 3Dfx since I didn't test with the TNT2
Ultra and because I said that the I feared the 3500. What a wonderful
May 15, 1999 (early PM)
Someone mentioned that with some AMD CPU chipsets, e.g. VIA, that you may
need to upgrade your mainboard drivers. For VIA folks the following URL
For ALi folks, I believe the problem is specific to 3Dfx. For ALi/AMD/TNT
folks, I assume there are newer drivers for the ALi motherboard chipset
Let me share with you my personal hell. Some people have a "Voodoo" card
and thus try to select "Voodoo OpenGL" in Graphics Options even though
everything is running just hunky dory. This is because they are on a
Voodoo3 or a Banshee, which is running just great, except some users get
mystified when the graphics options aren't selecting "Voodoo OpenGL". So
instead of leaving well enough alone, they start copying and renaming
files, and finding "bugs" in our code where we load "3DFXVGL.DLL" instead
of the "correct" 3DFXOGL.DLL.
So in the menu, somehow I need to communicate that you should only select
[Voodoo OpenGL] if you have a Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo 2, or Voodoo Rush,
but that you should NOT select that option if you have a Voodoo3 or
To solve this, I'm going to remove that menu selection altogether on Voodoo3
or Banshee installations and hope that fixes it. Ack.
This isn't necessarily the users' fault, they're just confused by the
terminology. And it's difficult to communicate the above in, like, twelve
characters (which is about as much room as I have in the menu).
Another thing that people have mentioned is that the European 3Dfx Web site
doesn't seem to have the Q3 certified drivers posted in an easy to find
location. Someone was kind enough to hand me the following URLs:
May 15, 1999 (afternoon)
I neglected to mention subjective impressions with the various accelerators,
so I'll do a brief synopsis here: all the 32-bit cards look good. The
16-bit cards had different levels of "graininess" due to different dithering
mechanisms. The Savage3, Rage Pro, V2200, and Intel i740 all looked quite a
bit different from each other. The butt ugliest was the Riva128. The Voodoo3
looked extremely good, far better than any other 16-bit accelerator out there.
The only 16-bit artifact you could really see on the Voodoo3 was when smoke
clouds pile up on each other, causing pretty gnarly banding and a greenish
tinge to appear. There are also some odd clipping bugs where fire/explosions
get chopped in half at times, but this is on all 3Dfx hardware due to what
appears to be a driver deficiency.
I'm gonna run to Fry's today and see if they have anything else I should run
quick tests on. I'll probably pick up a Riva128ZX too. I'll also try to
get V2 SLI numbers at some point, although they should be nearly identical
to V3 3000 (V3 should have better throughput, and V2 SLI should have marginally
better fill rate).
Someone else asked how I managed to run at 1280x1024 (since the menus
only support 1280x960). We have a "custom video mode" capability that
is sort of a hack right now. To use it, you have to do:
PAY ATTENTION HERE -- YOU CANNOT GET BACK INTO THE GRAPHICS OPTIONS MENU
AT THIS POINT! This is due to a dumb bug on my part (I was indexing
with r_mode into an array and forgot that it could be a negative value).
So if you want to go back to 640x480, you MUST do the following:
Someone had a suggestion that maybe folks suffering from some of the
3Dfx installation nightmares are actually doing the installation
incorrectly. This is actually very possible, since their installer
isn't exactly, um, intuitive. The EXE you download only unzips the
data into a temp directory, you still need to go into Control Panel |
System and update the driver for the Voodoo2. This is all documented
in the README.TXT file that comes with the driver redistribution.
May 15, 1999 (early AM, part 2)
Here's the deal on benchmarking. If a test is not reproducible on
anyone's system (because, for example, the test itself is secret);
or if the test cannot be validated through an independent or
authoritative source on the matter, especially if the validity of the
test is in question; or if a testing methodology is not published for
peer review and public scrutiny, then it is invalid.
By those criteria, the benchmarks that I publish aren't going to be
100% trustworthy. And you know what? They aren't. Human beings
are running the benchmark, and thus there is some room for human
error. I'm using a build of the Quake3 binaries that I'm not sure is
100% golden (but I'm assuming it is). I haven't thoroughly reviewed
the TIMEDEMO code to make sure that it's actually doing the right thing.
I may have hardware that is overclocked that I'm not aware of. Hell,
I may have mislabeled some hardware and got it switched around.
And most important, none of you reading this (except Eric :-) ), has
seen these benchmarks being run.
So you're basically trusting ME. And I, in turn, am trusting the
hardware manufacturers not to write drivers that detect Quake3 and
optimize for it; I am trusting that John Carmack knows what he's
saying when he said "I fixed the timedemo code" and, before that,
"timedemo is broken"; and I am trusting that Eric doesn't screw up when
running the tests. So there's trust basically all the way through
this chain of events.
Most important, I am trusting that you folks believe the numbers that
I publish based on my prior record. Sometimes I've published numbers
some of you don't like (hello 3dfx.products.voodoo2 -- Chunky Butt
still loves you all!); sometimes I've published numbers you folks DO
like. But in all cases, I've published numbers that I have felt have
been valid and honest. I try to be, above all other things, fair,
so that my credibility and honor are not called into question when I
do make harsh or praising statements about something.
I have no vested interest in making you read my .plan files. I don't
sell banner ads here. I have no vested interest in making you buy
a 3Dfx, ATI, or NVidia accelerator -- I don't own stock in any of
those companies, and even if I did, the extra few hundred sales made
that would result from me saying "go buy this brand!" wouldn't matter
one bit in the grand scheme of things.
What matters to me is that accurate information gets out there so that
YOU, the people that indirectly pay for my car and my house, get the
most enjoyable experience possible when playing the game I helped to
create. Given that goal, it is in my best interests to give you good
info on which cards perform the best. And that's what I try to do
everytime I put up the numbers.
The numbers that Tom's Hardware has posted make me real uneasy. I'm
not sure they're invalid, but I do know that given they are not
easy to reproduce on other people's systems and that, more important,
the methodology has not been published for review and scrutiny. It
is, in fact, leveraging a feature that we have acknowledged is not
functioning correctly in Q3TEST. Other sites have dissected that
issue in more depth than me, but suffice to say that I think there
are enough unknowns and variables with Tom's numbers that I would
pretty much just discard them out of hand as being meaningless.
Okay, let me put this less diplomatically: Tom's numbers are not
provably correct or valid, and thus we have to assume that they are
not correct or valid. I have asked any IHVs that have linked to his
numbers or, even worse, used his numbers as marketing material (only
his Q3TEST numbers, I have no opinion on any other work he has done
in the past), to knock it off. Now. I refuse to stand by idly and
let users potentially be misled just because one set of numbers makes
one IHV look better than the other.
If someone wants to post numbers to make themselves look good, there
is data from a few .plan file postings ago they can base their claims
on. Those numbers are good, and if an IHV wants to argue/question those
numbers, they are more than welcome to contact me about it.
When the patch is put out (don't know when, but not anytime soon), then
new numbers can be posted by anyone just like the good old days. Until
then, I'm assuming you trust me, my numbers, and my commentary. If you
don't, then I won't notice, but if you do, then it makes all this
And that's the last I have to say on this matter. Good night.
May 15, 1999 (early AM)
I really hate doing this, but this has been reported SO many times
that I feel an obligation to pass it on with no guarantees that
this will work (or even that it won't hose your system). It seems
the main culprite is the new FXMEMMAP.VXD that 3Dfx has out.
_Supposedly_ if you take your old FXMEMMAP.VXD from the reference
drivers (NOT the Q3 compatible drivers) and replace the newer
one with that, a lot of the AMD problems go away.
Another way of doing this is to install the _older_ drivers and JUST
copy in 3DFXVGL.DLL from the new distribution.
I'm praying 3Dfx addresses all this like REAL soon so that you folks
out there suffering from 3Dfx hell (particularly on AMD based machines)
can enjoy the test as much as everyone else. Unfortunately it seems
that all of 3Dfx decided they had to attend E3, so I don't see anything
happening on this front until mid next week.
There is also the theory that some folks may have invalid config files
that resulted from installing the test, running it (unsuccessfully),
then downloading new drivers. This MIGHT cause an inconsistent state
within Q3CONFIG.CFG, so you may just want to delete that file and see
if everything gets fixed.
Forgot to mention that benchmark was done on Win98. I don't plan on
comparing operating system performance, since there are just too many
variables involved there.
I've had at least one report that 3DFXVGL.DLL was NOT copied into the
/windows/system directory on an "Update Driver". When that user manually
copied it there, it worked. Sounds like something might be horked in the
3Dfx driver distribution right now.f
Some folks have asked that 1024x768 be tested also, since it might give
a "happy medium" between max framerate at 640x480 and max quality at
1280x1024. I don't buy it, other than it runs on an SLI V2. Speaking
of which, we didn't test the V2 SLI since I feel that in general it
should be about the same performance as a V3 3500.
I had someone actually claim that Tom's Hardware numbers were more valid
since they showed a greater disparity between V3 and V2. Um, no. At
640x480, in all likelihood the limiting factor will be driver quality,
NOT hardware capabilities. At 1280x1024, the limiting factor will be
fill rate, not driver quality.
I've received some encouraging e-mails from people playing on very low
end systems, i.e. systems that don't meet minimum specifications for
Q3. I've had a report that a Pentium/150 overclocked to Pentium/200
w/ a Rage Pro 4MB PCI board (also overclocked, heh) with 48MB of RAM
actually played the game at a passable speed. It wasn't a screamer,
but it ran well enough to be usable.
May 14, 1999 (late PM)
doh! I'm a dork. Forgot to mention that it was with Q3TEST1.DM3.
Please stop asking me to test on a PVR Neon 250. We don't have one,
we haven't seen the specs on one, and PowerVR hasn't initiated any
discussion with us on the issue.
May 14, 1999 (early-late PM)
Well, the benchmarks are in. First off, I want to note that I didn't test
with anything overclocked, since I'm here to tell you "how it is" out of
the box, not "how it is" after you download 14 different guides on how to
turn everything up so your computer is just like one of John's cars: fast,
when it's working.
I'm also beta testing with pre-production boards from anyone -- I have
a Matrox G400 and a Savage4, but these are pre-production boards and I'm
not entirely confident that numbers generated from them would be valid.
Tests were done in two modes: 640x480 and 1280x1024. The former stresses
driver performance, the latter should stress hardware performance. When
possible the tests were run at 16 and 32-bit. For some reason, the desktop
resolution made a difference (probably the desktop was consuming memory that
the driver couldn't free), so to make things "fair" we ran the game at the
same color depth as the desktop.
Options were set to the defaults ("normal").
Test machine was an Intel PIII/500 w/ 128MB of RAM. Sound was disabled. We
want to run the tests on an AMD K7, but our test unit has some reliability
problems. Drivers were pulled directly from either 3Dfx's Web site or from
GLSETUP.EXE, depending on which was necessary for the adapter.
Adapter Res FPS Comment
3Dfx Voodoo3 3000 640x480x16bpp 51.6
NVidia RivaTNT2 640x480x16bpp 48.4
3Dfx Voodoo2 640x480x16bpp 46.9
NVidia RivaTNT 640x480x16bpp 46.6
ATI Rage128 640x480x16bpp 46.2
3Dfx Voodoo Banshee 640x480x16bpp 37.6
NVidia Riva128 640x480x16bpp 31.0
S3 Savage3D 640x480x16bpp 25.7
S3 Savage3D 640x480x16bpp 25.6 r_picmip 0
Intel i740 640x480x16bpp 25.0
Matrox G200 640x480x16bpp 23.1
ATI Rage Pro 640x480x16bpp 20.1
3Dfx Voodoo 1 640x480x16bpp 16.8 r_picmip 2
Rendition V2200 640x480x16bpp 15.9
NVidia RivaTNT2 640x480x32bpp 46.5
Nvidia RivaTNT 640x480x32bpp 40.8
ATI Rage128 640x480x32bpp 40.6
Matrox G200 640x480x32bpp 23.1
S3 Savage3D 640x480x32bpp 16.4
3Dfx Voodoo3 640x480x32bpp N/A 32-bit rendering not supported
3Dfx Voodoo2 640x480x32bpp N/A 32-bit rendering not supported
3Dfx Voodoo Banshee 640x480x32bpp N/A 32-bit rendering not supported
3Dfx Voodoo 1 640x480x32bpp N/A 32-bit rendering not supported
NVidia Riva128 640x480x32bpp N/A 32-bit rendering not supported
Intel i740 640x480x32bpp N/A 32-bit rendering not supported
ATI Rage Pro 640x480x32bpp N/A 32-bit rendering not supported
Rendition V2200 640x480x32bpp N/A didn't bother running the test
3Dfx Voodoo3 1280x1024x16bpp 23.1
NVidia RivaTNT2 1280x1024x16bpp 21.7
ATI Rage128 1280x1024x16bpp 18.1
NVidia RivaTNT 1280x1024x16bpp 15.7
Voodoo Banshee 1280x1024x16bpp 11.9
Matrox G200 1280x1024x16bpp 8.5
S3 Savage3D 1280x1024x16bpp 6.9
3Dfx Voodoo2 1280x1024x16bpp N/A not enough framebuffer RAM
NVidia Riva 128 1280x1024x16bpp N/A not enough framebuffer RAM
ATI Rage Pro 1280x1024x16bpp N/A not enough framebuffer RAM
3Dfx Voodoo 1 1280x1024x16bpp N/A not enough framebuffer RAM
Rendition V2200 1280x1024x16bpp N/A not enough framebuffer RAM
NVidia RivaTNT2 1280x1024x32bpp 13.1
ATI Rage128 1280x1024x32bpp 13.0
NVidia RivaTNT 1280x1024x32bpp 8.2
Matrox G200 1280x1024x32bpp 6.1
3Dfx Voodoo 3 3000:
Very very fast. Damn shame about that 16-bit thing. I fear the
3Dfx Voodoo 2:
Still holds its own after all these years. A lot of that is because we
actually leverage the hell out of its multitexturing capability. Honestly,
if you have a V2 and you're happy at 640x480, I don't see a compelling
reason to upgrade to something newer just for Q3TEST (unless you REALLY want
to spend your money).
3Dfx Voodoo Banshee:
Wow, not bad at ALL. Faster than a Riva128 and it looks better too. Sure,
there aren't many around, and I know a lot of Banshee users out there
feel like they've been orphaned (to which I say "Hey, at least you didn't
buy a Voodoo Rush"), so hopefully these scores will perk you up.
3Dfx Voodoo Graphics:
No, it's not even competitive, but this was a Monster 3D (4MB _total_), and
it ran pretty well. Well enough that I think it's quite playable. When
turning down the lodbias and subdivisions and switching to 512x384 it could
post numbers > 20fps. A good card if you're on a budget and a friend is
willing to give you one. Then again, being plugged into a PIII/500 didn't
hurt either. :-)
Good general purpose accelerator, right on par with a RivaTNT in most cases.
ATI Rage Pro:
Let's be frank: it's not exactly an elite graphics accelerator. However,
there are more Rage Pros out there then there are atoms in the universe,
so we need to make sure we run on them and run with reasonable performance.
I'm generally happy with ATI's OpenGL driver performance and quality. I
don't think we can really polish this one much more.
Hey, for $49, it works, and it doesn't look that bad. It has reasonable
frame rate, it's robust as hell, and in general it just works. If you need
an accelerator and only have $50 to spend this is the one to get. It has
around 60Mpixels/second fill rate, and the Banshee has around 90Mpixels/second
fill rate. Banshee is about 50% faster, so it looks like both drivers
are doing the best they can given the backend they're working with.
Decent board, but its drivers could use some tweaking since in theory it has
performance on a par with a Banshee (~90 mpixels/second). Nice image quality
and it has been reasonably solid for us (it locks up the machine about once
or twice a day).
NVidia Riva TNT2:
This was on an Elsa Erazor III, so I think it's just a regular TNT2, not
an Ultra. Um, it's real fast, I think that's about all I can really say.
NVidia Riva TNT:
Still a very fast accelerator, even if it's being phased out by newer chips
like the TNT2. For < $100, it can't be beat. Seriously, if you have < $100
and you need to upgrade, there is NO reason you shouldn't get a TNT board
from Creative (I hear that on pricewatch etc. that you can find them for
Fairly fast, but damn is it ugly. We tested with a 4MB one, so that may
be a factor in its performance. I wish we had a Riva128ZX, but we're
all out here and CompUSA didn't have any. Oh well.
And when I say "is it ugly", I am not talking about a subtle thing. It
is really, REALLY ugly, and the drivers we were running were causing all
kinds of grotesque things to happen. However, we've run with a ZX before
with nary a hitch, so that may have been a side effect of using a non-ZX
I have a feeling that the Savage3D isn't really getting a fair shake here
because its driver really need some work. If I get up to date drivers,
I'll let everyone know. One nice thing about the Savage3D is that with
its texture compression you can run at "r_picmip 0" with very little
*sigh* It could have been a contender.
We can run on just about anything, and we're pretty happy about that. It's
obvious that driver redistribution is going to be an issue, but we will
eventually have that solved (in time for our retail release) so that
hopefully people won't be returning Quake3 just because they can't get it
If I had $50 to spend on an AGP accelerator, it would be a generic Intel
i740 board (e.g. Jaton). If I had $100 to spend on an AGP accelerator,
it would be a Creative Graphics Blaster TNT board. If I had $150 to
spend on an accelerator, I'd probably go with a TNT2. If I had an
unlimited budget, I'd probably either go with a 32MB TNT2 Ultra or,
if I REALLY didn't give a damn about 32-bit rendering or Glide games
(modulo the Creative Glide wrapper, which I have no comment on at this
time), then I'd definitely opt for the V3 3500 when it comes out.
I'll eventually test a G400, Permedia3, and Savage4 and post those results,
although in all likelihood I'll have to redo all the tests to remain
Now that we have an "intern" (Eric Webb, who did all this benchmarking for
us here) of sorts on board I plan on doing more benchmarking (well, actually
I plan on having HIM do more benchmarking, heh) since we'll have the
bandwidth for that sort of thing. Numbers on a K6-3 and PII/450 may be
forthcoming if we have the time.
Great, now I get to look forward to bug reports AND hate mail. Rock out.
May 14, 1999 (mid PM)
Uggggh, 140+ e-mails today, but hey, I asked for it....
There seem to be two big types of 3Dfx related problems: the "can't find
3DFXVGL.DLL" problem (for Voodoo, Voodoo2, and Voodoo Rush users) and the
"it pukes and blue screens on me when I load 3DFXVGL.DLL" problem.
The latter seems to be a problem primarily associated with AMD CPUs with
some chipsets, however it HAS occurred on other systems. I hope 3Dfx can
figure out what's up with that.
The former problem, however, is a bit of a mystery. People are telling me
that they have installed the latest drivers from 3Dfx, but their QCONSOLE.LOG
output shows that LoadLibrary( "3dfxvgl" ) failed. This is very
disconcerting, since (assuming that the 3DFX installation copied 3DFXVGL to
/windows/system) according to the help pages on LoadLibrary, the search
path for a LoadLibrary (that does not specify a path) is:
1. application directory
2. current directory
3. windows system directory (fetched from GetSystemDirectory())
4. windows directory
5. the system path
So if 3DFXVGL.DLL is
For those of you seeing this problem with V1, V2, or VRush (i.e. the last
part of your QCONSOLE.LOG says "LoadLibrary( '3dfxvgl' ): failed") AND
that have definitely installed the latest Q3 certified drivers from 3Dfx,
please verify that 3DFXVGL.DLL is definitely installed in your system
directory. If it is NOT, then there may be a problem with the 3Dfx driver
installer. If it IS, then there may be a problem with how LoadLibrary
This also explains why some people have had luck copying 3DFXVGL.DLL into
the Quake3 directory and getting things to work.
May 14, 1999 (early PM)
For those of you with Riva128 accelerators: you will see black boxes around
your blurry shadow (underneath your feet) and damage marks. This is due
to a limitation in the Riva128's hardware.
Oh, if you're gonna send me a bug report (PLEASE only send me video card
related stuff), please cc:email@example.com
More info from 3Dfx (I think this was on their Web site):
- there are known problems (crash on startup) with the drivers from
3Dfx for VG, V2, and Rush on AMD systems with the ALi chipset. Otherwise
those drivers _should_ work on all AMD systems without the ALi chipset.
Got this tidbit from a user:
"On NT machine (Dell Optiplex GX1MDSK 450+br) service pack 5, this is our
work machines, Q3 will run on the standard ATI rage pro chip but only with
older drivers (4.00.1381.1070, 4.0.0)."
Some more things:
- it's also relevant to me if you only see anomalies at certain graphics
- try "r_drawstrips 1" (doesn't require a vid_restart) if you see "really
weird shit all over your screen" on NVidia RivaTNT or Riva128
When you mail in the QCONSOLE.LOGs, please send as much information as possible
about system configuration, what drivers you've used, whether you used GLSETUP
or downloaded drivers directly from the manufacturer Web page, whether you're
overclocking, chipset, motherboard chipset, etc. etc. i.e. anything you think
may be useful to me.
May 14, 1999 (early AM)
I know I'm really, really going to regret this, but....I'm getting enough
tech support e-mails that, if I'm gonna deal with some of them, I'd at least
like maximum information.
IF you can't get graphics to work on your system, please do the following:
- if you have a Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo Banshee, Voodoo 2, or Voodoo Rush:
1.) download the VERY latest Quake3-certified drivers from www.3dfx.com
and install them. Please be very careful that you don't have any files
like 3DFXVGL.DLL or OPENGL32.DLL residing in your Quake3 directory.
- if you have a regular 2D/3D accelerator under Win9x, either download the
latest drivers from your respective hardware vendor's Web site, OR
download GLSETUP that will autodetect your hardware and install up
to date drivers. GLSETUP will be much larger, but if you don't know
what hardware you have, it will simplify things for you immensely.
- if you are running Windows NT, download the latest drivers from your
hardware vendor's Web site and install them.
In ALL cases please make sure that you do not have any extraneous
OPENGL32.DLL or 3DFXVGL.DLL files residing in your system search path. They
should ONLY be in /windows/system, not in /quake3!
If you have been dicking around with files haphazardly (e.g. q3config.cfg,
unpacking the PK3 file, etc.), then you may have inadvertently hosed your
install. In that case, toast your current installation, and re-install. One
nice thing about the test being multiplayer only is that you don't have
to worry about any save files!
If you are still having problems and you get an error dialog with the console
debugging output (it should have a lot of text and some buttons like "Copy",
"Clear", and "Quit" or something like that), then copy that text and e-mail
it to me.
If you do not get the above, then try running Q3TEST as follows:
quake3 +cvar_restart +set logfile 2
This should generate a file called QCONSOLE.LOG somewhere in your /quake3
directory path. E-mail that to me.
No promises, but I'm working on trying to figure out why some people are
getting that weird problem on 3Dfx stuff. Right now the VAST majority of
bugs reported to me have to do with the new 3Dfx drivers; ATI drivers on
Windows NT; and some problems with AMD machines. I'm trying to isolate this
stuff so we can have a rock solid retail release.
Sorry I didn't get the benchmarks up tonight, but we were going through hell
with a prototype K7. Hopefully tomorrow night we'll have something to post.
We have some temporary help in here right now doing nothing but benchmarking,
which means we can do a better job of it than having me distractedly run some
tests while I'm trying to get "real" work done too.
May 13, 1999
A user pointed out that there seem to be two separate sets of drivers
for the V2 on the 3Dfx Web page: a set of "reference" drivers and a set of
"Quake3 certified" drivers. The latter has 3DFXVGL.DLL, the former does
not. This may be the cause of a lot of the problems people have been
having with 3DFXVGL missing or not found.
May 12, 1999, part 8
Oh, one more thing on the GLSETUP stuff: if there are new drivers from
your accelerator manufacturer that claim to support Q3TEST, then you
can definitely download those and install them without having to use
GLSETUP is designed to solve a very basic problem that OpenGL developers
are finding: making sure that up to date drivers are on a user's system.
If you, the user, can guarantee that you have the latest drivers, and if
you're savvy enough to download the driver and install them (and I'm sure
many of you are, but there are MANY people that have no idea what a 3D
accelerator is, much less what kind they have installed or where to get
drivers and install them), then by all means do so and skip the GLSETUP
GLSETUP is not a requirement for Q3TEST, it's simply a helpful tool that
detects your video card and gives you the latest drivers within the
GLSETUP package. In all likelihood, if you're reading this then you're
Net-wise enough to know what your card is and how to get new drivers for it.
I apologize if this was not made clear enough at the outset and some of you
wasted a long time downloading something that you didn't need or had
I do recommend against using OEM (e.g. Diamond, STB, Creative) drivers
and that you should get up to date drivers directly from the chip
manufacturers (S3, ATI, NVidia, 3Dfx, etc.). OEM drivers tend to lag
behind the chip manufacturer drivers by a fairly significant amount of
In the future GLSETUP will do minimal kernel download, detect the driver
needed, then suck the bare minimum necessary for an install. GLSETUP
doesn't do that right now since it's still in beta.
May 12, 1999, part 7
Another potential source of confusion may be with those that have
installed either the 3Dfx Beta ICD (the older one that predates the
one in GLSETUP) or, in an unrelated form, have an installation of
Quake2 on their system that is somehow causing a conflict.
At this point my recommendations (for maximum safety):
- Quake2 uses the minidriver effectively, so don't mess with that. Just
use the latest 3DFX minidriver from 3Dfx and park that in your Quake2
directory. Do NOT copy the minidriver into the Quake3 directory and
attempt to use it! It will NOT work!
- do not attempt to use the Quake3 certified drivers from 3Dfx with
Quake2. I don't believe that 3Dfx has had time to adequately qualify
those drivers with Quake2, so that may be causing some problems.
- make sure you don't have duplicate OPENGL32.DLL, 3DFXVGL.DLL, or
3DFXGL.DLL files floating around. This may cause conflicts or other
odd bugs. There should be a single OPENGL32.DLL (NOT a 3Dfx supplied
one!) in /windows/system; a 3DFXVGL.DLL in /windows/system; a 3DFXGL.DLL
in /quake2; and if you have a Voodoo3, a 3DFXOGL.DLL in /windows/system.
- on Voodoo3/Banshee, make sure you are choosing "Default OpenGL", NOT "Voodoo
OpenGL". "Voodoo OpenGL" should only be selected if you have a Voodoo
Graphics, Voodoo 2, or Voodoo Rush installed and wish to use it.
I apologize for any confusion, unfortunately this is the nature of the
beast when you can have two separate accelerators in your system and,
even worse, when you have shifting drivers from an IHV that can support
multiple of their cards depending on the installation. Anyone that has
been playing Everquest with a V2/TNT combo probably has seen similar
type things (with EQ you can use DX6 Primary, DX6 Voodoo 2, or Glide
May 12, 1999, part 6
Clarification on the GLSETUP issue: since we could not get the 3DFX
Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo 2, Banshee, and Voodoo Rush drivers integrated
in time (due to circumstances out of our control), if you are using
one of those accelerators then you must download the drivers directly
However, if you are using Voodoo3 then GLSETUP will work fine, modulo
any innate broken pieces that may or may not exist in 3Dfx's OpenGL
driver to begin with.
May 12, 1999, part 5
We still want to support DEC Alpha processors, but we can't find any
3D accelerators for the AXP that will run Q3TEST well. If any hardware
vendors are willing to rev their AXP drivers to support Q3TEST, please
let me know.
May 12, 1999, part 4
Some IHVs have expressed dissatisfaction with Tom's Hardware Guide's
numbers, claiming that Tom is both biased (for advertising reasons) and
also because they don't believe he has been using the most up to date
drivers available (i.e. the ones in GLSETUP).
I have no opinion on those matters, but thought at least they should be
shared so that folks can look at the numbers posted a bit more critically.
Benchmarks will be run tomorrow, so you'll be getting the real dirt from
us Real Soon Now.
May 12, 1999, part 3
Part of the confusion about copying 3DFXVGL to the Q3 directory and renaming
it to OPENGL32.DLL is that some people don't realize that you can change to
"Voodoo OpenGL" in the graphics options menu. For example, some people have
a Riva128 and a Voodoo 2, and the game, by default, goes with the OpenGL
ICD that is installed. To circumvent this some people have been copying
3DFXVGL.DLL to OPENGL32.DLL in the Q3 directory.
This will have all kinds of potentially nasty side effects. It's really
much easier if you just go do this:
Or select "Voodoo OpenGL" in the Graphics Options menu.
May 12, 1999, part 2
At this point my opinion on the "timedemo" scores being generated by some
sites is that they should be taken with a lot of salt. If the results are
consistent, then hey, they might be valid, but right now we're fairly
confident that the timedemo code is broken so the results being generated
may not, in fact, have any validity to them.
On Thursday I intend on running a full set of unbiased benchmarks with
I've had people send me e-mail saying they've HAD to copy their 3Dfx driver
files to get things to work. I'll get to the bottom of this and post a
summary once I figure out what's going on with that.
May 12, 1999
SLI seems to work fine. The system that reported having problems is just
having problems in general. My system wouldn't work because I, like
a complete and utter dork, forgot to plug-in the pass through cable. Just
so you know, I didn't HAVE to admit that to you folks. :-)
There are tearing issues on the Riva128 and RivaTNT because they don't
properly support synchronizing to vsync.
The 32/16-bit problem (where it gets real slow) on the TNT is due to a
driver bug. You simply cannot change the color bits on the TNT with
their current driver set.
PLEASE remember to use GLSETUP.EXE to configure the video drivers on your
system. A lot of the bugs that are being reported are because people don't
have up to date video drivers.
If you are a site that is mirroring Q3TEST, you need to also have at least
a link to the GLSETUP beta. http://www.quake3arena.com/q3test/glsetup.html
May 11, 1999, part 4
I've had problems trying to get Q3TEST to work on SLI systems. I've contacted
3Dfx about this and hope to hear back from this.
If you are using a Rendition V2200 and seeing that tearing problem, enter this
at the console: "r_swapinterval 1". It looks like their swapinterval support
may be busted. I have an e-mail into them on this also.
May 11, 1999, part 3
Okay, I'm getting support mails from people that are doing some pretty damn
stupid things, including using Q3CONFIG files from the IHVTEST; editing the
Q3CONFIG file directly; copying system drivers into the Quake3 directory;
and similar types of things.
When you install a set of drivers, just run the installer, and do NOT move
things around. You're not going to get any benefit by copying 3DFXVGL into
your Quake3 directory. What you WILL get is complete hell when newer
drivers come out and Q3TEST is still looking at the old one in the local
directory. We do NOT load 3DFXOGL directly, we load 3DFXVGL. If we are
loading 3DFXOGL, then you are either screwing with something you shouldn't
be, or Q3TEST is doing something very wrong.
Install the drivers, then leave them alone.
When you install Q3TEST, do NOT mess with the directory structure or the
files and expect things to continue working. Do NOT edit the CFG files.
If you want to change a cvar, just do it in the console.
Some people are having problems because they've installed Q3TEST over
the IHVTEST, then they have the gall to send me an e-mail about it. *sigh*
If you are having problems, PLEASE do the following:
- download and run GLSETUP to make sure you have the most up to date drivers
on your system
- COMPLETELY remove Q3TEST (and the IHVTEST if you have it) from your system
and reinstall it
RUN THE GAME AND LEAVE ITS FILES ALONE.
To enable stencil buffer shadows (which are available only TNT, TNT2, and
Rage128 I think), you must be in 32-bit mode. Then do the following at
Do not overclock your system. We're against it, and I don't care HOW
rock solid your system is with overclocking, if your system hangs with
Q3 when overclocked but works fine without overclocking, then it's not
a rock solid system. This applies to your video cards and your CPU.
Finally, people are saying you can't see the difference between 16-bit
and 32-bit. In some cases, you CAN'T see the difference. But if you're
gonna test between the two, crank up a Voodoo2 vs. a TNT in 32-bit mode.
Look at the skies and places where lots of things are blending on top
of each other. Also look for places that have a single, steep color
gradient. Foggy areas are a good place, as are skies.
May 11, 1999, part 2
I don't know how Tom of Tom's Hardware got his benchmark scores, but I sent
him an e-mail asking him. I'll post when I find something out.
May 11, 1999
Turns out that TIMEREFRESH and TIMEDEMO do not work in the build that got
released due to a bug on our part. We will have this fixed in the next
major release, but may be a while (please don't bombard us with e-mail
about the next release...or at least if you do, send 'em to Graeme :-) ).
I'll try to have benchmark figures up on Thursday night.
May 10, 1999, part two
I've had repeated e-mails about the state of 3Dfx's drivers under NT, so
I went ahead and asked what their official stance was. The best I could
get from them was along the lines of "We're gonna support it, but we're
not committing to a specific date". I'm under the impression that the
drivers for WinNT aren't that far off. I don't have any more information
on this, so please don't send me questions about their drivers. I suggest
you contact 3Dfx directly if you have more questions about their driver
May 10, 1999
Some folks have written asking what the deal is with 3Dfx support under
WinNT. To be honest, I don't know, and that's something that should be
taken up with 3Dfx (I'll ask 'em anyway). One thing we've run into is
that the 3Dfx WinNT drivers haven't worked too well with any of our newer
Intergraph workstations (TDZ2000 and GT1). I haven't tested the 3Dfx
drivers very well simply because I can't get my V2 to work in my GT1
(likely the result of the PCI bridge architecture in the GT1). I do have
a V2 in my other test machine, but there is a huge amount of difference
between the exercise a hardware/driver combo sees when installed in a
primary development machine vs. a testing machine.
So that's the deal in a nutshell: we haven't had much luck with V2 under
WinNT during the development of Q3A, and we haven't tested with Banshee
or V3 at all under WinNT.
May 9, 1999
There seems to be some confusion about the difference between an OpenGL
ICD, a "minidriver" a.k.a. MiniGL, and a "standalone" driver. So in my
quest to make everyone in the world less confused about matters OpenGL,
I'll do my bit.
Snarfle gri moor landi ganillish.
Okay, I needed everyone to be confused first, thus the above. So anyone
who wasn't confused better be confused now, at least temporarily.
Okay, you can stop being confused.
Oh...uh, wait, I was saying something. Oh yeah.
So here's the deal. OpenGL is not tied directly to any particular windowing
system such as Win32 or X or anything like that. Each operating/window system
provides what are known as "window system bindings" that act as the system
dependent interface between an OpenGL application and the underlying window
Under X, for example, the bindings are part of a library called GLX, developed
by SGI and/or the OpenGL ARB (I think). Under Win32, the bindings were
developed by Microsoft, and are called WGL (pronounced "wiggle") for obvious
These bindings control things like tying an OpenGL application to a specific
window, swapping buffers, and finding "pixelformats". In an OpenGL code
the "core" OpenGL code is completely portable, but the window system code
(i.e. GLX/WGL stuff) is not. That small system specific kernel is what
gets ported between platforms (e.g. from Mac to Linux to PC).
Now, under each operating system you have various "driver interfaces" that
an OpenGL driver adheres to in order to communicate with the OS and
window system efficiently. Under Win32 there have been two different
prevalent driver interfaces: the ICD (Installable Client Driver) and the
MCD (Mini Client Driver). The latter is dead, but the former still lives
When an OpenGL driver for Windows is said to be "an ICD", that means it
adheres to the Microsoft ICD interface mechanism. Which means that
an application that links directly to OPENGL32.LIB and uses OPENGL32.DLL
and WGL will magically work with that driver with no muss and no fuss.
A "full ICD" is just that -- a complete OpenGL driver implementation that
supports all of OpenGL and that works with the standard driver interface
mechanism. A "full ICD" is the best type of driver we can hope for from
But, there's a problem: WGL was designed LONG before 3D graphics accelerators
were prevalent, and WGL definitely was not designed to take into account
3D-only accelerators such as Voodoo 2. This means that 3Dfx can NOT write
an ICD (note: ICD meaning "an OpenGL driver that uses the Microsoft ICD
mechanism") for the Voodoo 2 since the WGL bindings only understand the
concept of a single graphics accelerator. This rears its head as a serious
problem with systems with, say, a RivaTNT and a V2. If both accelerators
had an ICD, which one will an application use?! Fortunately (or not),
this isn't a problem since only a single ICD can exist in a system (note:
Direct3D doesn't have this problem since Microsoft cared enough about D3D to
support device enumeration. WGL could easily be revved to support this
feature, however Microsoft, for obvious reasons, doesn't really care to
see that happen.)
3Dfx CAN write a FULL OpenGL driver for the V2, however it won't be an
offical ICD because they can't hose the system's primary display device's
ICD. That would be poor manners.
This puts 3Dfx in the position of having a complete OpenGL driver for
Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2, but that driver is NOT an ICD. It is what
we call a "standalone driver". A standalone driver is simply a full
OpenGL implementation that does not use the Microsoft ICD driver
interface mechanism because of technical inadequacies within WGL.
Quake3 only supports one standalone driver -- the 3Dfx Voodoo(2/Rush)
full OpenGL standalone driver.
Finally, there is the issue of a "minidriver". A "minidriver" is a
_partial_ OpenGL implementation designed to support only those OpenGL
calls that are performed by a few key OpenGL games such as GLQuake
To an application, a "minidriver" and a "standalone driver" look
the same, the difference being that a standalone driver is a FULL
OpenGL implementation (theoretically suitable for use in any
OpenGL game, applications, etc.) whereas a minidriver is a PARTIAL
OpenGL implementation that is suitable for only a very few games and
that will likely explode gloriously if asked to do anything but the
limited subset of operations it is optimized for.
Quake3 does not knowingly or willingly support minidrivers, however
there is nothing preventing someone from writing one. But this is
a moot issue, since to my knowledge no minidrivers exist that can
OpenGL drivers can be either partial implementations ("minidrivers")
or full implementations ("compliant" or "conformant").
Win32 OpenGL drivers can support the Microsoft ICD mechanism or may
be "standalone" drivers.
Quake3 supports "complete OpenGL ICD drivers" and "3Dfx's complete
standalone driver". 3Dfx's OpenGL driver for V2 is not an ICD,
however it IS a complete/full OpenGL implementation. It is a
standalone driver, NOT a minidriver.
I hope that clears things up. I have a creepy feeling that the above
makes sense if you already knew it all, but if you didn't already know
it, then you're still probably confused. Either way, I tried.
May 7, 1999, part deux
Ugh, the e-mails have begun..."how will accelerator XYZ work with
Here's a quick run down of accelerators we have tested and that we
find acceptable or better for Quake3, assuming the most up to date
drivers are installed (note: up to date drivers for nearly all of
the following accelerators will be available when Q3TEST is released).
3Dfx Voodoo Graphics
3Dfx Voodoo2 SLI
3Dfx Voodoo Rush (tested out of house, but supposedly stable)
3Dfx Voodoo Banshee
3DLabs Permedia 2 (ugly, some serious visual artifacts)
ATI Rage Pro (4MB and 8MB)
Matrox G200 &
Rendition V2x00 (not very fast, but it works)
S3 Savage3 &
* high performance
! supports stencil volume shadows
& 32-bit rendering
We have not done significant testing on the following boards simply because
they were not undergoing full shipment at the time we were wrapping up
However we do not anticipate any problems with any of the above, since they
are newer, faster, and should be real nice.
Note that ALL of the above boards are supported through a complete OpenGL
implementation, NOT through minidrivers of any kind. And with the
exception of Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo 2, and Voodoo Rush, all of the above
accelerators are supported using the standard Win32 OpenGL ICD driver
interface (because of limitations in Microsoft's WGL OpenGL specification,
3D-only cards must be supported by direct loading of their DLL instead of
using the standard GDI interface).
CPUs that we have tested on and support include:
Intel Pentium and above
So here's the scoop: if you have a pimped out PIII/500 w/ a RivaTNT2, you're
gonna be stoked with a sweet looking game running at a very fast clip. If
you have an $800 AMD K6-2 w/ a 4MB ATI Rage Pro, we got you hooked up too,
but it'll run slower and not look quite as good. But you'll still be able
to play, and I'm not talking "it'll load up, be happy" -- you'll seriously
be able to PLAY the game on a $1000 machine. Q3TEST runs fine on a first
generation Voodoo Graphics w/ 4MB (remember those?), and it doesn't look
half bad either.
Dig this: Intel i740 boards are available at Fry's Electronics for $49.95,
which is about what a new game costs. The Intel i740 plays the game
VERY well, albeit with 16-bit rendering and some other minor visual
artifacts. For $59.95 there were some some white box Riva128 boards,
and those play the game at VERY high performance, but look quite a bit
worse than the i740. For $99.95 there was the Creative Graphics Blaster
w/ RivaTNT, which has to be the best bang/buck ratio in graphics accelerators
So that's three boards under $100 that run the game extremely well, for those
of you looking to upgrade on a budget.
If you've bought your desktop machine in the past year, odds are that you
will be able to play Q3TEST once you have up to date drivers installed.
We have seen a lot of problems with some AMD chipsets (specifically,
ALI) and also the Intel LX chipset used with a lot of PII/333 machines.
These problems are not specific to Quake3, but are usually problems with
the chipset drivers or design. They manifest themselves as just strange
system hangs, and it can happen regardless of the brand accelerator
May 7, 1999
There was an internal miscommunication here that resulted in the
unintentional propagation of incorrect information (gee, how is THAT
for convoluted?!). So I'm here to clarify.
In a nutshell, Q3TEST/Win32 WILL support 3Dfx! There was some internal
confusion about the matter as we've been wrestling with driver stability
and distribution issues (across all chipsets, not just 3Dfx). 3Dfx,
especially Marty Franz and Rob Wheeler, have been highly responsive
to our needs when it comes to driver robustness, performance, and
So to reiterate: there will be support for 3Dfx, and I believe 3Dfx will
be posting Q3TEST compliant drivers on their Web site over the weekend
in anticipation of Q3TEST's release.
As an aside, during testing we've found that most of the OpenGL drivers
have performed quite well and have shown a remarkable amount of stability.
We are getting excellent performance on low end boards such as the Intel
i740, NVidia Riva128, Voodoo Graphics, and the ATI Rage Pro. We're
extremely encouraged by the solidity of the OpenGL drivers we've seen,
and we're also proud that Q3TEST scales so well from low end hardware
all the way up to the biggest and baddest new accelerators such as
TNT2 and Voodoo3.
Oh, as a second aside, I installed Red Hat 6.0 on my old test machine,
and I'm pretty impressed with it. Some talented engineer out there should
take up 3Dfx on their job offer to work on Linux OpenGL drivers, since
Linux + OpenGL = cost effective OpenGL development workstation.
Copyright © Square
Eight 1998-2018. All Rights Reserved.
The BlueTracker is provided by Webdog.
We are not responsible for the content of the .plans displayed here.