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Name: Brian Hook
Email: bwh@idsoftware.com
Description: Programmer
Project: Quake 3 Arena
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//
// All personal musings on my part are available at:
//
// http://www.voodooextreme.com/ask/askmenu.html
//
// All GMB related e-mail sent to me at id software will be
// deleted unread
May 14, 1999 (early AM)
-----------------------
I know I'm really, really going to regret this, but....I'm getting enough
tech support e-mails that, if I'm gonna deal with some of them, I'd at least
like maximum information.
IF you can't get graphics to work on your system, please do the following:
- if you have a Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo Banshee, Voodoo 2, or Voodoo Rush:
1.) download the VERY latest Quake3-certified drivers from www.3dfx.com
and install them. Please be very careful that you don't have any files
like 3DFXVGL.DLL or OPENGL32.DLL residing in your Quake3 directory.
- if you have a regular 2D/3D accelerator under Win9x, either download the
latest drivers from your respective hardware vendor's Web site, OR
download GLSETUP that will autodetect your hardware and install up
to date drivers. GLSETUP will be much larger, but if you don't know
what hardware you have, it will simplify things for you immensely.
- if you are running Windows NT, download the latest drivers from your
hardware vendor's Web site and install them.
In ALL cases please make sure that you do not have any extraneous
OPENGL32.DLL or 3DFXVGL.DLL files residing in your system search path. They
should ONLY be in /windows/system, not in /quake3!
If you have been dicking around with files haphazardly (e.g. q3config.cfg,
unpacking the PK3 file, etc.), then you may have inadvertently hosed your
install. In that case, toast your current installation, and re-install. One
nice thing about the test being multiplayer only is that you don't have
to worry about any save files!
If you are still having problems and you get an error dialog with the console
debugging output (it should have a lot of text and some buttons like "Copy",
"Clear", and "Quit" or something like that), then copy that text and e-mail
it to me.
If you do not get the above, then try running Q3TEST as follows:
quake3 +cvar_restart +set logfile 2
This should generate a file called QCONSOLE.LOG somewhere in your /quake3
directory path. E-mail that to me.
No promises, but I'm working on trying to figure out why some people are
getting that weird problem on 3Dfx stuff. Right now the VAST majority of
bugs reported to me have to do with the new 3Dfx drivers; ATI drivers on
Windows NT; and some problems with AMD machines. I'm trying to isolate this
stuff so we can have a rock solid retail release.
Sorry I didn't get the benchmarks up tonight, but we were going through hell
with a prototype K7. Hopefully tomorrow night we'll have something to post.
We have some temporary help in here right now doing nothing but benchmarking,
which means we can do a better job of it than having me distractedly run some
tests while I'm trying to get "real" work done too.
May 13, 1999
------------
A user pointed out that there seem to be two separate sets of drivers
for the V2 on the 3Dfx Web page: a set of "reference" drivers and a set of
"Quake3 certified" drivers. The latter has 3DFXVGL.DLL, the former does
not. This may be the cause of a lot of the problems people have been
having with 3DFXVGL missing or not found.
May 12, 1999, part 8
--------------------
Oh, one more thing on the GLSETUP stuff: if there are new drivers from
your accelerator manufacturer that claim to support Q3TEST, then you
can definitely download those and install them without having to use
GLSETUP.
GLSETUP is designed to solve a very basic problem that OpenGL developers
are finding: making sure that up to date drivers are on a user's system.
If you, the user, can guarantee that you have the latest drivers, and if
you're savvy enough to download the driver and install them (and I'm sure
many of you are, but there are MANY people that have no idea what a 3D
accelerator is, much less what kind they have installed or where to get
drivers and install them), then by all means do so and skip the GLSETUP
step.
GLSETUP is not a requirement for Q3TEST, it's simply a helpful tool that
detects your video card and gives you the latest drivers within the
GLSETUP package. In all likelihood, if you're reading this then you're
Net-wise enough to know what your card is and how to get new drivers for it.
I apologize if this was not made clear enough at the outset and some of you
wasted a long time downloading something that you didn't need or had
already installed.
I do recommend against using OEM (e.g. Diamond, STB, Creative) drivers
and that you should get up to date drivers directly from the chip
manufacturers (S3, ATI, NVidia, 3Dfx, etc.). OEM drivers tend to lag
behind the chip manufacturer drivers by a fairly significant amount of
time.
In the future GLSETUP will do minimal kernel download, detect the driver
needed, then suck the bare minimum necessary for an install. GLSETUP
doesn't do that right now since it's still in beta.
May 12, 1999, part 7
--------------------
Another potential source of confusion may be with those that have
installed either the 3Dfx Beta ICD (the older one that predates the
one in GLSETUP) or, in an unrelated form, have an installation of
Quake2 on their system that is somehow causing a conflict.
At this point my recommendations (for maximum safety):
- Quake2 uses the minidriver effectively, so don't mess with that. Just
use the latest 3DFX minidriver from 3Dfx and park that in your Quake2
directory. Do NOT copy the minidriver into the Quake3 directory and
attempt to use it! It will NOT work!
- do not attempt to use the Quake3 certified drivers from 3Dfx with
Quake2. I don't believe that 3Dfx has had time to adequately qualify
those drivers with Quake2, so that may be causing some problems.
- make sure you don't have duplicate OPENGL32.DLL, 3DFXVGL.DLL, or
3DFXGL.DLL files floating around. This may cause conflicts or other
odd bugs. There should be a single OPENGL32.DLL (NOT a 3Dfx supplied
one!) in /windows/system; a 3DFXVGL.DLL in /windows/system; a 3DFXGL.DLL
in /quake2; and if you have a Voodoo3, a 3DFXOGL.DLL in /windows/system.
- on Voodoo3/Banshee, make sure you are choosing "Default OpenGL", NOT "Voodoo
OpenGL". "Voodoo OpenGL" should only be selected if you have a Voodoo
Graphics, Voodoo 2, or Voodoo Rush installed and wish to use it.
I apologize for any confusion, unfortunately this is the nature of the
beast when you can have two separate accelerators in your system and,
even worse, when you have shifting drivers from an IHV that can support
multiple of their cards depending on the installation. Anyone that has
been playing Everquest with a V2/TNT combo probably has seen similar
type things (with EQ you can use DX6 Primary, DX6 Voodoo 2, or Glide
Voodoo 2).
May 12, 1999, part 6
--------------------
Clarification on the GLSETUP issue: since we could not get the 3DFX
Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo 2, Banshee, and Voodoo Rush drivers integrated
in time (due to circumstances out of our control), if you are using
one of those accelerators then you must download the drivers directly
from www.3dfx.com
However, if you are using Voodoo3 then GLSETUP will work fine, modulo
any innate broken pieces that may or may not exist in 3Dfx's OpenGL
driver to begin with.
May 12, 1999, part 5
--------------------
We still want to support DEC Alpha processors, but we can't find any
3D accelerators for the AXP that will run Q3TEST well. If any hardware
vendors are willing to rev their AXP drivers to support Q3TEST, please
let me know.
May 12, 1999, part 4
--------------------
Some IHVs have expressed dissatisfaction with Tom's Hardware Guide's
numbers, claiming that Tom is both biased (for advertising reasons) and
also because they don't believe he has been using the most up to date
drivers available (i.e. the ones in GLSETUP).
I have no opinion on those matters, but thought at least they should be
shared so that folks can look at the numbers posted a bit more critically.
Benchmarks will be run tomorrow, so you'll be getting the real dirt from
us Real Soon Now.
May 12, 1999, part 3
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Part of the confusion about copying 3DFXVGL to the Q3 directory and renaming
it to OPENGL32.DLL is that some people don't realize that you can change to
"Voodoo OpenGL" in the graphics options menu. For example, some people have
a Riva128 and a Voodoo 2, and the game, by default, goes with the OpenGL
ICD that is installed. To circumvent this some people have been copying
3DFXVGL.DLL to OPENGL32.DLL in the Q3 directory.
This will have all kinds of potentially nasty side effects. It's really
much easier if you just go do this:
]r_glDriver 3dfxvgl
]vid_restart
Or select "Voodoo OpenGL" in the Graphics Options menu.
May 12, 1999, part 2
--------------------
At this point my opinion on the "timedemo" scores being generated by some
sites is that they should be taken with a lot of salt. If the results are
consistent, then hey, they might be valid, but right now we're fairly
confident that the timedemo code is broken so the results being generated
may not, in fact, have any validity to them.
On Thursday I intend on running a full set of unbiased benchmarks with
commentary.
I've had people send me e-mail saying they've HAD to copy their 3Dfx driver
files to get things to work. I'll get to the bottom of this and post a
summary once I figure out what's going on with that.
May 12, 1999
------------
SLI seems to work fine. The system that reported having problems is just
having problems in general. My system wouldn't work because I, like
a complete and utter dork, forgot to plug-in the pass through cable. Just
so you know, I didn't HAVE to admit that to you folks. :-)
There are tearing issues on the Riva128 and RivaTNT because they don't
properly support synchronizing to vsync.
The 32/16-bit problem (where it gets real slow) on the TNT is due to a
driver bug. You simply cannot change the color bits on the TNT with
their current driver set.
PLEASE remember to use GLSETUP.EXE to configure the video drivers on your
system. A lot of the bugs that are being reported are because people don't
have up to date video drivers.
If you are a site that is mirroring Q3TEST, you need to also have at least
a link to the GLSETUP beta. http://www.quake3arena.com/q3test/glsetup.html
May 11, 1999, part 4
--------------------
I've had problems trying to get Q3TEST to work on SLI systems. I've contacted
3Dfx about this and hope to hear back from this.
If you are using a Rendition V2200 and seeing that tearing problem, enter this
at the console: "r_swapinterval 1". It looks like their swapinterval support
may be busted. I have an e-mail into them on this also.
May 11, 1999, part 3
--------------------
Okay, I'm getting support mails from people that are doing some pretty damn
stupid things, including using Q3CONFIG files from the IHVTEST; editing the
Q3CONFIG file directly; copying system drivers into the Quake3 directory;
and similar types of things.
STOP IT.
When you install a set of drivers, just run the installer, and do NOT move
things around. You're not going to get any benefit by copying 3DFXVGL into
your Quake3 directory. What you WILL get is complete hell when newer
drivers come out and Q3TEST is still looking at the old one in the local
directory. We do NOT load 3DFXOGL directly, we load 3DFXVGL. If we are
loading 3DFXOGL, then you are either screwing with something you shouldn't
be, or Q3TEST is doing something very wrong.
Install the drivers, then leave them alone.
When you install Q3TEST, do NOT mess with the directory structure or the
files and expect things to continue working. Do NOT edit the CFG files.
If you want to change a cvar, just do it in the console.
Some people are having problems because they've installed Q3TEST over
the IHVTEST, then they have the gall to send me an e-mail about it. *sigh*
If you are having problems, PLEASE do the following:
- download and run GLSETUP to make sure you have the most up to date drivers
on your system
- COMPLETELY remove Q3TEST (and the IHVTEST if you have it) from your system
and reinstall it
RUN THE GAME AND LEAVE ITS FILES ALONE.
To enable stencil buffer shadows (which are available only TNT, TNT2, and
Rage128 I think), you must be in 32-bit mode. Then do the following at
the console:
r_stencilbits 8
vid_restart
cg_shadows 2
Do not overclock your system. We're against it, and I don't care HOW
rock solid your system is with overclocking, if your system hangs with
Q3 when overclocked but works fine without overclocking, then it's not
a rock solid system. This applies to your video cards and your CPU.
Finally, people are saying you can't see the difference between 16-bit
and 32-bit. In some cases, you CAN'T see the difference. But if you're
gonna test between the two, crank up a Voodoo2 vs. a TNT in 32-bit mode.
Look at the skies and places where lots of things are blending on top
of each other. Also look for places that have a single, steep color
gradient. Foggy areas are a good place, as are skies.
May 11, 1999, part 2
--------------------
I don't know how Tom of Tom's Hardware got his benchmark scores, but I sent
him an e-mail asking him. I'll post when I find something out.
May 11, 1999
------------
Turns out that TIMEREFRESH and TIMEDEMO do not work in the build that got
released due to a bug on our part. We will have this fixed in the next
major release, but may be a while (please don't bombard us with e-mail
about the next release...or at least if you do, send 'em to Graeme :-) ).
I'll try to have benchmark figures up on Thursday night.
May 10, 1999, part two
------------
I've had repeated e-mails about the state of 3Dfx's drivers under NT, so
I went ahead and asked what their official stance was. The best I could
get from them was along the lines of "We're gonna support it, but we're
not committing to a specific date". I'm under the impression that the
drivers for WinNT aren't that far off. I don't have any more information
on this, so please don't send me questions about their drivers. I suggest
you contact 3Dfx directly if you have more questions about their driver
situation.
May 10, 1999
------------
Some folks have written asking what the deal is with 3Dfx support under
WinNT. To be honest, I don't know, and that's something that should be
taken up with 3Dfx (I'll ask 'em anyway). One thing we've run into is
that the 3Dfx WinNT drivers haven't worked too well with any of our newer
Intergraph workstations (TDZ2000 and GT1). I haven't tested the 3Dfx
drivers very well simply because I can't get my V2 to work in my GT1
(likely the result of the PCI bridge architecture in the GT1). I do have
a V2 in my other test machine, but there is a huge amount of difference
between the exercise a hardware/driver combo sees when installed in a
primary development machine vs. a testing machine.
So that's the deal in a nutshell: we haven't had much luck with V2 under
WinNT during the development of Q3A, and we haven't tested with Banshee
or V3 at all under WinNT.
May 9, 1999
-----------
There seems to be some confusion about the difference between an OpenGL
ICD, a "minidriver" a.k.a. MiniGL, and a "standalone" driver. So in my
quest to make everyone in the world less confused about matters OpenGL,
I'll do my bit.
Snarfle gri moor landi ganillish.
Okay, I needed everyone to be confused first, thus the above. So anyone
who wasn't confused better be confused now, at least temporarily.
Okay, you can stop being confused.
Oh...uh, wait, I was saying something. Oh yeah.
OpenGL drivers.
So here's the deal. OpenGL is not tied directly to any particular windowing
system such as Win32 or X or anything like that. Each operating/window system
provides what are known as "window system bindings" that act as the system
dependent interface between an OpenGL application and the underlying window
system.
Under X, for example, the bindings are part of a library called GLX, developed
by SGI and/or the OpenGL ARB (I think). Under Win32, the bindings were
developed by Microsoft, and are called WGL (pronounced "wiggle") for obvious
reasons.
These bindings control things like tying an OpenGL application to a specific
window, swapping buffers, and finding "pixelformats". In an OpenGL code
the "core" OpenGL code is completely portable, but the window system code
(i.e. GLX/WGL stuff) is not. That small system specific kernel is what
gets ported between platforms (e.g. from Mac to Linux to PC).
Now, under each operating system you have various "driver interfaces" that
an OpenGL driver adheres to in order to communicate with the OS and
window system efficiently. Under Win32 there have been two different
prevalent driver interfaces: the ICD (Installable Client Driver) and the
MCD (Mini Client Driver). The latter is dead, but the former still lives
on.
When an OpenGL driver for Windows is said to be "an ICD", that means it
adheres to the Microsoft ICD interface mechanism. Which means that
an application that links directly to OPENGL32.LIB and uses OPENGL32.DLL
and WGL will magically work with that driver with no muss and no fuss.
A "full ICD" is just that -- a complete OpenGL driver implementation that
supports all of OpenGL and that works with the standard driver interface
mechanism. A "full ICD" is the best type of driver we can hope for from
a vendor.
But, there's a problem: WGL was designed LONG before 3D graphics accelerators
were prevalent, and WGL definitely was not designed to take into account
3D-only accelerators such as Voodoo 2. This means that 3Dfx can NOT write
an ICD (note: ICD meaning "an OpenGL driver that uses the Microsoft ICD
mechanism") for the Voodoo 2 since the WGL bindings only understand the
concept of a single graphics accelerator. This rears its head as a serious
problem with systems with, say, a RivaTNT and a V2. If both accelerators
had an ICD, which one will an application use?! Fortunately (or not),
this isn't a problem since only a single ICD can exist in a system (note:
Direct3D doesn't have this problem since Microsoft cared enough about D3D to
support device enumeration. WGL could easily be revved to support this
feature, however Microsoft, for obvious reasons, doesn't really care to
see that happen.)
3Dfx CAN write a FULL OpenGL driver for the V2, however it won't be an
offical ICD because they can't hose the system's primary display device's
ICD. That would be poor manners.
This puts 3Dfx in the position of having a complete OpenGL driver for
Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2, but that driver is NOT an ICD. It is what
we call a "standalone driver". A standalone driver is simply a full
OpenGL implementation that does not use the Microsoft ICD driver
interface mechanism because of technical inadequacies within WGL.
Quake3 only supports one standalone driver -- the 3Dfx Voodoo(2/Rush)
full OpenGL standalone driver.
Finally, there is the issue of a "minidriver". A "minidriver" is a
_partial_ OpenGL implementation designed to support only those OpenGL
calls that are performed by a few key OpenGL games such as GLQuake
and Quake2.
To an application, a "minidriver" and a "standalone driver" look
the same, the difference being that a standalone driver is a FULL
OpenGL implementation (theoretically suitable for use in any
OpenGL game, applications, etc.) whereas a minidriver is a PARTIAL
OpenGL implementation that is suitable for only a very few games and
that will likely explode gloriously if asked to do anything but the
limited subset of operations it is optimized for.
Quake3 does not knowingly or willingly support minidrivers, however
there is nothing preventing someone from writing one. But this is
a moot issue, since to my knowledge no minidrivers exist that can
support Quake3.
SUMMARY:
OpenGL drivers can be either partial implementations ("minidrivers")
or full implementations ("compliant" or "conformant").
Win32 OpenGL drivers can support the Microsoft ICD mechanism or may
be "standalone" drivers.
Quake3 supports "complete OpenGL ICD drivers" and "3Dfx's complete
standalone driver". 3Dfx's OpenGL driver for V2 is not an ICD,
however it IS a complete/full OpenGL implementation. It is a
standalone driver, NOT a minidriver.
I hope that clears things up. I have a creepy feeling that the above
makes sense if you already knew it all, but if you didn't already know
it, then you're still probably confused. Either way, I tried.
Later.
May 7, 1999, part deux
----------------------
Ugh, the e-mails have begun..."how will accelerator XYZ work with
Q3TEST?"
Here's a quick run down of accelerators we have tested and that we
find acceptable or better for Quake3, assuming the most up to date
drivers are installed (note: up to date drivers for nearly all of
the following accelerators will be available when Q3TEST is released).
3Dfx Voodoo Graphics
3Dfx Voodoo2
3Dfx Voodoo2 SLI
3Dfx Voodoo3*
3Dfx Voodoo Rush (tested out of house, but supposedly stable)
3Dfx Voodoo Banshee
3DLabs Permedia 2 (ugly, some serious visual artifacts)
ATI Rage Pro (4MB and 8MB)
ATI Rage128*!&
Intel i740
Matrox G200 &
NVidia Riva128
NVidia RivaTNT*!&
NVidia RivaTNT2*!&
Rendition V2x00 (not very fast, but it works)
S3 Savage3 &
* high performance
! supports stencil volume shadows
& 32-bit rendering
We have not done significant testing on the following boards simply because
they were not undergoing full shipment at the time we were wrapping up
Q3TEST:
3DLabs Permedia3
Matrox G400
S3 Savage4
However we do not anticipate any problems with any of the above, since they
are newer, faster, and should be real nice.
Note that ALL of the above boards are supported through a complete OpenGL
implementation, NOT through minidrivers of any kind. And with the
exception of Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo 2, and Voodoo Rush, all of the above
accelerators are supported using the standard Win32 OpenGL ICD driver
interface (because of limitations in Microsoft's WGL OpenGL specification,
3D-only cards must be supported by direct loading of their DLL instead of
using the standard GDI interface).
CPUs that we have tested on and support include:
AMD K6-2
AMD K6-3
AMD K7
Intel Pentium and above
So here's the scoop: if you have a pimped out PIII/500 w/ a RivaTNT2, you're
gonna be stoked with a sweet looking game running at a very fast clip. If
you have an $800 AMD K6-2 w/ a 4MB ATI Rage Pro, we got you hooked up too,
but it'll run slower and not look quite as good. But you'll still be able
to play, and I'm not talking "it'll load up, be happy" -- you'll seriously
be able to PLAY the game on a $1000 machine. Q3TEST runs fine on a first
generation Voodoo Graphics w/ 4MB (remember those?), and it doesn't look
half bad either.
Dig this: Intel i740 boards are available at Fry's Electronics for $49.95,
which is about what a new game costs. The Intel i740 plays the game
VERY well, albeit with 16-bit rendering and some other minor visual
artifacts. For $59.95 there were some some white box Riva128 boards,
and those play the game at VERY high performance, but look quite a bit
worse than the i740. For $99.95 there was the Creative Graphics Blaster
w/ RivaTNT, which has to be the best bang/buck ratio in graphics accelerators
right now.
So that's three boards under $100 that run the game extremely well, for those
of you looking to upgrade on a budget.
If you've bought your desktop machine in the past year, odds are that you
will be able to play Q3TEST once you have up to date drivers installed.
Compatibility Issues:
We have seen a lot of problems with some AMD chipsets (specifically,
ALI) and also the Intel LX chipset used with a lot of PII/333 machines.
These problems are not specific to Quake3, but are usually problems with
the chipset drivers or design. They manifest themselves as just strange
system hangs, and it can happen regardless of the brand accelerator
installed.
May 7, 1999
-----------
There was an internal miscommunication here that resulted in the
unintentional propagation of incorrect information (gee, how is THAT
for convoluted?!). So I'm here to clarify.
In a nutshell, Q3TEST/Win32 WILL support 3Dfx! There was some internal
confusion about the matter as we've been wrestling with driver stability
and distribution issues (across all chipsets, not just 3Dfx). 3Dfx,
especially Marty Franz and Rob Wheeler, have been highly responsive
to our needs when it comes to driver robustness, performance, and
availability.
So to reiterate: there will be support for 3Dfx, and I believe 3Dfx will
be posting Q3TEST compliant drivers on their Web site over the weekend
in anticipation of Q3TEST's release.
As an aside, during testing we've found that most of the OpenGL drivers
have performed quite well and have shown a remarkable amount of stability.
We are getting excellent performance on low end boards such as the Intel
i740, NVidia Riva128, Voodoo Graphics, and the ATI Rage Pro. We're
extremely encouraged by the solidity of the OpenGL drivers we've seen,
and we're also proud that Q3TEST scales so well from low end hardware
all the way up to the biggest and baddest new accelerators such as
TNT2 and Voodoo3.
Oh, as a second aside, I installed Red Hat 6.0 on my old test machine,
and I'm pretty impressed with it. Some talented engineer out there should
take up 3Dfx on their job offer to work on Linux OpenGL drivers, since
Linux + OpenGL = cost effective OpenGL development workstation.
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