General Discussion Anyone want to discuss Tenet? ( WARNING: Spoilers!)

View : : :
22 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  ] Older
22.
 
No subject
Mar 4, 2021, 12:43
22.
No subject Mar 4, 2021, 12:43
Mar 4, 2021, 12:43
 
It has it's flaws, but watch some of the explainers I linked below, and give it another go. I did enjoy it better the second time.

Yes, it's implied that Washington created the Tenet organization in the future. As to why he has to test himself, good question, and you can take your pick.

This seems to be a standard test applied to ALL CIA agents as a recruiting tool for Tenet. If you're dedicated enough to provably try to kill yourself to protect knowledge that would get other people killed, then you've passed the entrance exam. At this point in the past, the older Washington isn't around, so his younger self is just recruited like everyone else is. It appears that no one, except Neil, even knows Washington is the founder of Tenet in the future.

Since the movie implies that the past cannot be changed, then his recruitment this way already happened and was inevitable.
- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
21.
 
No subject
Mar 4, 2021, 11:03
21.
No subject Mar 4, 2021, 11:03
Mar 4, 2021, 11:03
 
Haven't read all the comments yet, just a quick thing: Washington started the organization, right? He's the boss or something? Then... why did he had to test his own loyalty by making himself think he was killing himself with the pill at the start of the movie?

I watched it once. With a dumb break (cinema). Need to see it again.

Thought the movie was way too far fetched, badly executed, and I thoroughly hated the protagonist. What an empty, empty shell. Fuck me.
Avatar 57334
20.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 16:54
20.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 16:54
Feb 25, 2021, 16:54
 
Yeah, Neil is trained by Washington in the future after Washington sets up the Tenet organization. Thus he would have had to have inverted for a few years in order to meet Washington at the time of the movie.

Now it's possible Neil's done hundreds of missions that have cumulatively added up to a few years of inversion, but it's still a stretch.

- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
19.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 15:51
19.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 15:51
Feb 25, 2021, 15:51
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Feb 25, 2021, 15:26:
Yes. And no, you don't un-age traveling inverted. You still experience aging and the progression of time, you're just inverted compared to the rest of the world. As far as we know you can only travel forward (normal time) and backwards at the same pace (it takes an hour of your time to travel backward one hour).

Which is why, like I said before, I don't think Neil can be Kat's son. He would have had to spend 15+ years inverted after he grew up, got his PhD, trained, and had adventures with the an older version of the protagonist.
Hmm, that causes problems though. Neil indicates (claims?) he has known Washington for years. But for that to be true, and for Washington to have just met him, that would mean Neil would have to be from "years" in the future. Which would mean, he had to invert for years, which would mean he would age those years. The more I think about it, the more this movie is simply a total mess which makes no sense.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
18.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 15:26
18.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 15:26
Feb 25, 2021, 15:26
 
So, you are saying when Washington first (from our perspective) meets Neil (Pattinson) at the club, Neil has previously "finished" inverting himself and is now back into the "normal" flow of time. Right?

Yes. And no, you don't un-age traveling inverted. You still experience aging and the progression of time, you're just inverted compared to the rest of the world. As far as we know you can only travel forward (normal time) and backwards at the same pace (it takes an hour of your time to travel backward one hour).

Which is why, like I said before, I don't think Neil can be Kat's son. He would have had to spend 15+ years inverted after he grew up, got his PhD, trained, and had adventures with the an older version of the protagonist.

.
- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
17.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 14:33
17.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 14:33
Feb 25, 2021, 14:33
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Feb 25, 2021, 13:58:
You're only traveling back in time while inverted. They spend most of the main part of the movie not inverted. When they're in Mumbai, or stealing the item from the armored car, Neil is not inverted, otherwise he would seem to be moving backwards, and he would need to carry oxygen.
So, you are saying when Washington first (from our perspective) meets Neil (Pattinson) at the club, Neil has previously "finished" inverting himself and is now back into the "normal" flow of time. Right? Assuming this is what you are saying did Neil simply do one huge inversion at some point and is not reliving his life in his own past? Is it possible to travel forward? Is Neil inverting himself separately each time? If so, that would mean traveling back to the future multiple times too. These ideas are a lot easier to consume when the magical time travel happens instantaneously in some impossible to understand way. But when you have to live through the time travel it seems to add another level of confusion.

Which makes me realizes something else... I guess you must be "un-aging" when you are inverted, otherwise every time you went backward in time, you'd end up being older than you were previously at some specific date.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
16.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 14:09
16.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 14:09
Feb 25, 2021, 14:09
 
So after posting that I googled my idea that Neil's age doesn't make sense if he's Kat's son, and this guy agrees as well, so I'm not alone:

However, the ages and timelines don’t quite match up. As we know, it takes one hour to invert back one hour. With that in mind, Max would have had to have inverted himself at a very young age – the maximum age he could have been would be 15 years old, as he would then need to invert for 15 years to be the 30-year-old Neil we see in Tenet. Also, 15 years of oxygen so he can invert all time... The Protagonist could also keep young Max in one time period by constantly inverting – but that seems like an awful way to grow up

https://www.gamesradar.com/tenet-theories-neil-max-time-inversion/
- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
15.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 13:58
15.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 13:58
Feb 25, 2021, 13:58
 
You're only traveling back in time while inverted. They spend most of the main part of the movie not inverted. When they're in Mumbai, or stealing the item from the armored car, Neil is not inverted, otherwise he would seem to be moving backwards, and he would need to carry oxygen.

The only time Neil is inverted, until they both go through the first turnstile to save Kat's life, is when Neil (we find out later) saved the protagonist at the opera house early on, by shooting one of Sator's men with an inverted bullet, and he walks away backwards so I suspect he was inverted, and not just the bullet.

If Neil is Kat's son, then at some point in the future, Neil must have spent decades inverted in order to come back to this time. That's easy to ignore, but it's another big problem with the movie, because it's difficult to stay inverted - you have to carry or make inverted air, and maybe inverted food (they never covered that, but it's a logical assumption if you can't metabolize inverted oxygen). But it doesn't really add up, and I'm surprised no one talks about it, unless Neil is not Kat's son. That makes it more tenable. If the protagonist meets Neil as an adult in the next year, then spends a few years training and recruiting him (and maybe Neil already has his PhD?) then it's not a big stretch to think that Neil may have accrued a few years worth of inverted travel, while running operations, to wind up at the start of it all. That's why, despite the tempting clues implying Neil is Kat's son, I really don't think he is. It just doesn't make sense. Even if he's 25 years old when he finishes his training, he'd have to spend 15 years inverted to get back to this time, so he's actually be 40 years old (as far as we know you age normally in inverted time).

I actually did watch the movie last night, but dozed off half way through. Will pick it up again today. It does make a lot more sense now, however.

- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
14.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 13:21
14.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 13:21
Feb 25, 2021, 13:21
 
As I think about it, I am still confused though. Is there a separate action to simply travel backward in time without being "inverted"? Because if not, and Pattinson is from the future, then how is he ever able to interact with Washington's normal time flow? Either I am still missing something or this is just a huge whole in the base concept.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
13.
 
No subject
Feb 25, 2021, 13:16
13.
No subject Feb 25, 2021, 13:16
Feb 25, 2021, 13:16
 
Oh man, "The Prestige" blew me away. Totally unexpected.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
12.
 
No subject
Feb 24, 2021, 13:16
12.
No subject Feb 24, 2021, 13:16
Feb 24, 2021, 13:16
 
Oh okay, I follow where you were going now. No, I understood that there was just a mechanism (inversion) to allow you to travel backwards in time, but I can kind of see how you would get the impression you got - objects are existing backwards in time and maybe they belong to people who live backwards lives as well.

It's a convoluted plot, and I have to wonder why Nolan thought it was going to be an 'earth shattering' film for the masses. Like most Nolan Sci Fi films (The Prestige, Interstellar, Inception), it's a cerebral puzzle that's going to attract a niche audience. Usually the action in these films is enough to bring in other people who may not understand, or even care, about the science.

That same Youtuber has several videos on Tenet that are worth watching. I was reviewing them last night to get ready for my rewatch of the film. There's a whole video on Neil's timeline, with the assumption (some people disagree) that he's Kat and Sator's son. He has a very complex timeline because at one point, during the end battle, there are four versions of him coexisting.

I'm tentatively buying the Youtuber's theory that Sator went back to that day on the boat to die, 'because that day was a happy memory' or something like that, but I missed the plot point he made that Sator also suspected that day was THE day because on his first time timeline he heard reports of an explosion at that site (which if true, why didn't he investigate?). I'll be looking for that clue. I still don't totally understand why he didn't meet himself if they were both on the boat. I know the boat is big, but still.

All this just really makes me want to watch the movie again and see if it makes more sense now.
- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
11.
 
No subject
Feb 24, 2021, 11:30
11.
No subject Feb 24, 2021, 11:30
Feb 24, 2021, 11:30
 
Derp. I understand a lot more now. I totally misunderstood the "enemy". I thought the idea was there were people who were "traveling back in time in comparison to us". Basically their future was our past and vice versa. And they thought we were messing up "their" world somehow. But the actual idea is they are just people in the future, trying to "fix" the past because of pollution/global warming/whatever. Damn, now I need to watch the film again.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
10.
 
No subject
Feb 24, 2021, 11:18
10.
No subject Feb 24, 2021, 11:18
Feb 24, 2021, 11:18
 
Sator is the antagonist, Washington is the protagonist. But I got it. I'll check out the video.

I meant any time Pattinson is with Washington. If Pattinson is someone traveling backwards in time, then when he is with Washington in what would be normal time to us, he would need to be inverted, right?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
9.
 
No subject
Feb 24, 2021, 00:46
9.
No subject Feb 24, 2021, 00:46
Feb 24, 2021, 00:46
 
Okay. So I found this YouTube video tonight which I THINK explains the thing that's driving me crazy. I think the video author is dead right except for one thing: He thinks that when you're time inverted you're breathing CO2 in stead of oxygen, which sounds stupid. Inverting time wouldn't make your body swap compounds. I'm still for the idea that you can't metabolize inverted oxygen as the better explanation.

Anyway, he points out something that, if he's right, I totally missed. The protagonist that is going to kill himself at the end of the movie in order to activate the Algorithm is NOT the protagonist from the past. Like his wife who went back in time to kill him, the protagonist she kills is also from the future, who went back into the past to bury the Algorithm and kill himself (why he couldn't do that in his own time, beats me) . The past protagonist is apparently somewhere else on the boat (that's a stretch I agree), thus the past is not changed. Everything happened just as it happened. The body that was tossed overboard is the future protagonist. The past version of him continues on, and the past version of his wife becomes estranged from him because she saw a woman dive off the boat from his cabin and assumed that he was cheating on her.

Going to take that with a grain of salt and watch the movies again, but it helps me make sense of the ending.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB-IBR4lVNQ
- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
8.
 
No subject
Feb 23, 2021, 23:38
8.
No subject Feb 23, 2021, 23:38
Feb 23, 2021, 23:38
 
Not sure of the scene you're discussing. They weren't in body armor right? Because we can safely assume whenever they're in body armor, they have oxygen (thus the fight scene in the airport).

Seriously, I do intend to carefully look for oxygen mistakes on my rewatch because I do think you're right.
- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
7.
 
No subject
Feb 23, 2021, 19:33
7.
No subject Feb 23, 2021, 19:33
Feb 23, 2021, 19:33
 
Do you agree Pattinson should need oxygen while he is in the same time frame as Washington? Or am I overlooking something?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
6.
 
No subject
Feb 23, 2021, 12:56
6.
No subject Feb 23, 2021, 12:56
Feb 23, 2021, 12:56
 
And, as I said initially, this, puzzles me because he intended to die the day that the algorithm was buried. He had the cyanide pill, which he supposedly got from a CIA agent, and his intention was to kill himself. His wife was supposed to delay him from doing it long enough to buy time for the agents to steal the algorithm.

But did he die in the original time line? Or does that timeline now only exist because he collected all the parts of the algorithm in the future and went back to bury the bomb?

Yeah, I want to tie Nolan to a chair and make him explain to me exactly WTH is going on in that movie

- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
5.
 
No subject
Feb 23, 2021, 12:32
5.
No subject Feb 23, 2021, 12:32
Feb 23, 2021, 12:32
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 12:16:
I am confused about the ending. I thought there was a trigger on the algorithm that was radio linked to the antagonist's heart beat, and that if he dies, the algorithm would be triggered, destroying the past? Very confusing. Must watch some explainers on that before rewatching the movie.
Yeah, I suspect this is an inconsistency goof. I think the idea was supposed to be if he died the bomb would go off, burying the algorithm. Unfortunately, that doesn't match up with what else is going on in the film. Although, that is all happening in our past... right? They invert for multiple days to get there. So... yeah, not at all clear. I'd like to hear someone involved in the production address it.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
4.
 
No subject
Feb 23, 2021, 12:16
4.
No subject Feb 23, 2021, 12:16
Feb 23, 2021, 12:16
 
I seem to recall inconsistencies with their use of oxygen as well, and I'm going to watch for that on my second viewing. I assume that whenever they're wearing full body armor and travelling in reverse, they have an oxygen supply under the helmet.

I feel the whole oxygen thing was just a gimmick to create tension and add an element of danger to traveling in reverse, and it wasn't really necessary other than that. Realistically they would also have to carry a LOT more oxygen. Granted they don't need compressed air as time reversed nitrogen would be just as inert as normal nitrogen, but that little bit of oxygen would not last long. Having had a friend on oxygen, who had to use the highest 5L/min setting, I can tell you even a good size portable tank wouldn't last long. For Tenet I think they would be using an even higher flow rate as it would not be supplemental. Then again, I sort of assumed he might be carrying a time reverser that was taking the air around him and reversing it. It really wasn't explained.

I am confused about the ending. I thought there was a trigger on the algorithm that was radio linked to the antagonist's heart beat, and that if he dies, the algorithm would be triggered, destroying the past? Very confusing. Must watch some explainers on that before rewatching the movie.
- "If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Clinics Would Be Like Starbucks" - Nasim Pedrad
Avatar 22380
3.
 
No subject
Feb 23, 2021, 11:55
3.
No subject Feb 23, 2021, 11:55
Feb 23, 2021, 11:55
 
I'll repeat my comment which kind of triggered this topic.

Am I totally missing something or were they incredibly inconsistent and sloppy about people having to "bring your own oxygen" when inverted? I mean Pattinson is traveling backward in comparison to Washington, right? So, wouldn't that mean any time he is with Washington he would have to be inverted? Even if you ignore that, it seemed like they would use and not use oxygen randomly when we were supposed to know they were inverted. It just all seemed terribly sloppy to me. Also, is Pattinson the only person we see which is traveling backwards through time?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
22 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  ] Older