I remember a time when games didn't require patches.

Sure, but games were a lot less complicated back then - not an excuse but a reason. Plus look at the wide range of hardware configurations you have to target now.

I think some of the developers just made it look easy when they released patches for games, and they didn't break stuff but fixed things.

The other problem is the people who end up patching the games often aren't the people who actually created the game in the first place, Battlefield 2 is a good example of this. Not even DICE knows how to properly fix bugs in their own game anymore.

Does it suck that BIS will most likely not bother to work on ArmA1 anymore? yeah it does for those who don't want to invest in new hardware to run ArmA2 properly. But that's just the way it goes.

I remember a time when games didn't require patches. Or if there was a patch, it was to add hardware support or address some totally obscure scenario. Around 1999-ish was when the corporate pushing really began setting in and products were being rushed to market faster and faster. QA was cut back or liquidated. Patches began flooding the market after tighter dev cycles and limited QA. Initial patches were small and eventually became more frequent. People were intially going "wtf", but after customers were trained and comfortable with the process it became the new standard. "Low investment, High return" was what a former EA exec informed us of at a developers convention lecture. We kept buying it and they all milked it.

IMHO, when it comes to patching: Hardware/driver issues are excusable, especially with a hardware market that is inundated. Gameplay, scripting, UI type issues are inexcusable. Especially with what I've seen in the past few years. Mind you, it's not just games. It is software industry wide (my current line of work). It's ridiculous on both sides of the curtain.

SlipperyJim, you are on some kind of crusade. Everytime the game is mentioned you come out of the wood work damning it to hell. I wonder exactly how BIS burnt you? Clearly something personal.

Unlike you I try to play the game online. Too bad the game is so buggy it crashes ever few hours.

I've logged 100s of hours online. In mission based coop, deathmatch (Celery's DM pack) and Evo.

You want a real debate and not some kneejerk trolling attempt, how about discussing the lack of real gameplay innovation since OFP.

It's the only PC tactical shooter franchise still in active development. For many, that overrides the need to occasionally patch it.

Funnily, Ive read a lot of critics and other threads about this game and there are only very few people who actually have technical issues after 1.01 with ArmA 2. The vast majority who bought this game enjoy it very much.
Most people actually say that it is far less buggy and far more playable than ArmA 1 ever was until 1.12 and I agree 100% with them.
Your problems have another reason. Maybe ignorance, or a crappy computer or youre indeed only a simple troll.

Did you ask for a refund from the retailer you bought it from? Did they offer a refund for games that are opened and used? If not, it's your own fault for not waiting on reading reviews or trying the demo that was released (fileplanet, shacknews, filefront all have Arma combat operations demo that followed shortly after the US release). The game wasn't abandoned. If it was abandoned, they would have taken their money after the first two patches and left. It's at a state that a large majority of their user base can play it and have fun. If they abandoned it, they wouldn't continue supporting it with direct help on their forums either.

I also did not infer that ArmA1 does not matter, in fact I did the opposite if you look at it objectively. From my experiences with developers and publisher blokes, BIS had to release something soon to continue developing. Financially they needed a steady flow to continue improving the engine for Militaries and their intended game. This was not a bad mistake as people had been clamoring for an update to OFP. Why do you think ArmA2 was announced less than a year after ArmA1?

How many companies patch games 3 years later? Which companies are you setting the bar to compare BIS against? Have those companies created a 200km open world MILITARY sandbox with missions that you can edit in realtime and provide a lot of modification ability to extend it's life? You say it has problems, which specific problems did they introduce in the latest patch that broke more than they fixed for you?

1.08 wasn't the most stable, but it made playing tolerable. 1.12/1.14 was pretty stable and introduced 3D Space VOIP which is amazing. 1.16 so far has been the most stable for long multiplayer sessions, however it seems I end up suffering an occasional crash more than 1.15. I never said that ArmA1 is perfect or that it doesn't have it's share of problems, but they are clearly not the same problems you are running into.

You're not instilling much confidence in not being a troll. What you are saying justifies exactly what I outlined you seem like. All the "technical problems" in the Troubleshooting are minor problems or deal with configuration/installation issues.. very common issues that you can view in other similar companies troubleshooting and support sections.. every game is going to have customers who have problems with the game. You say that all of your other 3D games work perfectly, but I'd like to see you tell me exactly what games you play and I'll show you their troubleshooting sections with similar problems or users with similar experiences. Also, the servers haven't been empty for a long time and a majority of them get lots of use by the people who put them up.

Also, you seem to be doing the polar opposite of what you think I inferred.

"The game is pretty stable for a lot of people, granted some will have problems of which you might be one of them"

"I'm not the problem, it's the game. It can't possibly be my system! So I went for help and there's so many people saying there are problems that this game is just majorly bug ridden!"

See what I mean? Of course you don't. You're too infuriated and would much prefer your argument of semantics and unmovable position of Bridge Toll Officer, that anything I say is futile anyways and counted as being fanboyish even though I am not. I digress, though, I enjoy watching you spout retarded rhetoric that I know you didn't investigate or analyze further. It makes you seem that much smaller of a person on the internet.

What servers do you frequent and what kind of problems do you experience? I'm not here to change your mind to try ArmA2, I'm just calling you out on your blind tenacity to bring down BIS because they don't measure up to some irate individual on the internet. I know I'll be enjoying playing MP ArmA2 while you're out looking for another game that will measure up to a similar feature list.

This comment was edited on Jun 21, 2009, 03:52.

SlipperyJim is a troll. Pay no attention.

...and you are just a typical fanboy Dmitri that always blindly defends BIS on this website.

As I have said many times before I like Arma1 even with all it's faults. That is why I am annoyed with BIS for an absolutely horrible patch process that takes years and breaks more things than they fix.

Unlike you I try to play the game online. Too bad the game is so buggy it crashes ever few hours.

SlipperyJim is a troll. Pay no attention.

I cared a lot about bugs 10 years ago. But have you looked at PC games lately? They are all fucking console ports, simple as shit and short as hell. Lots of them dont even support proper customizable controls.

Truth. Though, I didn't care that much about bugs 10 years ago. Most of the classics were pretty buggy, such as anything from Black Isle. But that's okay. I'll take an original, ambitious, hardcore PC game with bugs over a polished but completely generic and dumbed down console port any day.

ArmA1 was more or less a stop gap for ArmA2

What you are saying is that Arma 1 doesn't matter. You are saying that it is fine that the game is abandoned in a very buggy state because it isn't a real product. Where is my refund then?

It has been 6 months since the last official patch. Before that the last patch took over 1 year to make. You consider that good support?! It takes them 3 years to patch what most companies do in 6 months.

You claim that Arma1 works perfectly for most users. That is utter bull. Most people have completely given up on Arma1 because it doesn't work. The servers have been almost empty for a very long time. Visit the BIS forums and read all the posts. Tons of technical problems.

Fanboys constantly deny there are problems with the coding of Arma1. They always say "it works perfectly for me, it must be because you are an idiot and don't know how to use a computer". Sorry Mr. Fanboy, but I bought my first computer in 1984. Since 1997 I have been building my own PCs. I don't claim to be an expert but to simply brush off Arma1 problems as "my fault" is laughable. Funny, how all other 3D games work perfectly. Arma1 is the only one with problems for me.

Arma1 was a constant beta with the paying customers working as beta testers. BIS makes a single change and it takes them 2 years to get it right (if ever). The community has been permanently split down the middle between different patches (half playing the last "final" patch and the other half playing the beta patch). This has been going on for several years now since Arma1 has been released. BIS is always VERY SLOW to release the Linux dedicated server files. It wouldn't be so bad if their patches were flawless but they often create more new bugs than they fixed!

Enjoy your crashes and bugs. Arma2 will be abandoned just like Arma1.

This comment was edited on Jun 20, 2009, 18:56.

No, SlipperyJim you are NOT right. ArmA1 runs fine and has been for the last year for a majority of players. We all know assumption is the mother of all fuckups and here, you're clearly the test case.

Being part of a community that plays ArmA1+ACE but not a fanboy to BIS, ArmA1 is THE most engaging infantry/combined arms simulator out there. Nothing even comes close to replicating what they have brought out. The game really can't be shown it's true colors in public servers or Single Player games, but communities there are some amazing communities like Tactical Gamer and others really help bring the game to an amazing level of atmosphere without being milsim. You wonder why they have a large install base? Modding. Modding alone has allowed some awesome shit to be created and strung/improved upon with each game release.

You say ArmA1 is not working properly, but for the majority of the users, it is. Maybe not for you, but it's a much smaller percentage of problems with ArmA1 than you make it out to be.

1.16 beta might as well be official and your bullshit complaining to any ArmA1 veteran who uses 1.16 comes off as a Thrashing Reviewer who spent 5 minutes with a bad experience and only reads the negativity in the forums as truth and pats on the back as fanboyism.

No, the game itself isn't the most amazing quality (Animations, Voice Acting, physics) but the communities and people that spring up around it make it more amazing than ever intended by BIS. OFP was evidence of this with WGL and it continued on to ArmA1 where it really blossomed with ACE. ArmA2 brings that theater to a whole new level with the realistic countrysides and ACE/WGL like features. Seeing as the ACE team is developing ACE2 for ArmA2, this will help ensure a long lasting tradition of awesome support for games LIKE THIS by the community.

Most of the quality addons made ARE used by the community and stuck in compilation packs that supplement the gameplay. True some/lots of people make some lesser quality addons that no one really cares about or they might use them in their microcommunities or clans, but that really shouldn't be posted as a bullet point against the game itself or BIS.

As far as BIS having problems, they clearly lack resources or programmers who are willing to invest in rewriting their animation and their radio/dialog system. From what I hear, VBS1/2 made by their subsidiary (BIA) has implemented some awesome features that BIS isn't willing to look into implementing anytime soon, which is a huge shame and a complete fucking mistake.

ArmA1 was more or less a stop gap for ArmA2, which really eats donkey balls considering ArmA1 at first release was 100x worse than OFP+WGL. It's similar with ArmA2 but they've improved a lot of details in the game itself over ArmA1+Latest Patches that make the game completely worthy of the cost. So they released 2 patches before the US release even hits Steam, boo fucking hoo. So it got released early to Germany and Russia.. Big fucking deal? At least they actually support the games they make rather than just moving on as most bigger development/publishing companies have done. No it's not ideal, but they're more like an independent studio rather than someone backed by a single publisher.

You get what you put into the game and if you don't want to experience the game to it's fullest, you most certainly don't have to as it's not for everyone. But you shit on them because they have a loyal following but buggy releases?? It sounds like you WANT to like them for what they've done, but can't and continuously get infuriated by their track record and the people people who defend them. I'll agree with you that their track record sucks for first releases.. even OFP had bugs on release that people forgot about when Resistance came out and covered their nostalgia with rose colored glasses.

If anything, to people who are interested in the game, roll with the communities I said above and give it a shot.. you might find the diamond in the rough like the rest of us have.

This might come off as fanboism to you, but really, I think BIS could improve their first releases and agree with you on that, but they really don't deserve any lashing equal to the BS you spout considering they're doing moderately successful with a niche genre.

This comment was edited on Jun 21, 2009, 03:57.

I just don't get it, they keep releasing bug filled games, one after another, people keep buying them, even though the previous game is a mess, and turn around and tell them 'good job'.

*scratches his head*

I wonder what happened to the folks at Taldren.

Honestly?
I cared a lot about bugs 10 years ago. But have you looked at PC games lately? They are all fucking console ports, simple as shit and short as hell. Lots of them dont even support proper customizable controls.

This game is a true PC game in quite some time, and I give a fuck if its buggy or not. Its still playable (especially the multiplayer and editor are fucking awesome) and nowhere near as bad as some reviews claim it to be. BIS has proven before that they care a lot for their games and patch them up. Also BIS is a very small company and they still do some of the now very few most complex games out there (yeah pretty sad).

Another big reason I still support them and buy their games, even if bugged, is they still do their games with a lot of effort and devotion. You actually notice that they like doing their games. I dont notice that in most console ports at all.
Also they are listening to their community. And ALSO they dont implement DRMs.

LOL at bugs. I am one of those suckers that know what I am getting and will defend it. OFP+ARMA still bring me so much happiness despite it all. I already have Halo 3, Crysis and Stalker. Arcade stuff is covered really well, GOOD deep/complex games which were all the rage back in the day (X-Com, Tie Fighter, Master of Orion/Magic etc) are dead apart from this series.

So does this patch let you run over the chickens? Or are those mobile tank traps still stopping the AI?

I got the international digital DL at nexway (http://arma2.nexway.com/index2.html?Langue=en_GB&REF=671796) - and I can say, its pretty damn cool so far. Graphically its incredible and I havent run into one bug yet.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/100/1/Armed_Assault_Series.html

Has anyone actually played this game or is all the bugginess speculation derived from the couple of reviews that are out for it?

Taldren broke up. Was working some shitty 3rd person action game and went to some e3 or other show and it tanked because the game was really shitty and it never saw the light of day. Then I think the president eric bethke moved to korea or something like that to make shitty dinky games for cell phones or something like that.

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/527/527469p1.html

This comment was edited on Jun 20, 2009, 12:50.

Slippery Jim is completely right. Which is too bad really. The fanboys you see on BIS's forums makes me sick TBH.

I do like the fixes in this latest patch though (not that I can try them out). Having multiple saves is a good addition as having one save in OFP and ArmA sucked. I just wonder if the HDR implementation is done any better in ArmA 2. In ArmA 1 is was such a horrible implementation.

There was a demo for ArmA 1 but it was a pretty crappy put together one. The ArmA 2 demo, which should be out next week, sounds to be a lot better since it'll be 2GB worth on content. Plus it comes with the editor so it does have a lot more value than every other game's demos at least. Then again, looking at BIS's track record with bugs that may not matter much.

Where was the playable demo, Hump?

Will there be a playable demo? I don't recall the first game having one.

I'm pretty sure Arma 1 had a demo. I also seem to remember having to spend almost an hour just learning the basic key bindings. I can't remember another FPS game other than Op Flash having such a complex and extensive key binding system.