Demigod & Piracy

There's a Demigod: Day 1 Status Report we missed between the day 0 update and the day 2 report with some details on how much piracy they saw after the street date was broken for Gas Powered Games' action/strategy game, which has no DRM protection (thanks GamesIndustry.biz). Some of the issues related to an influx of unauthorized users have been addressed, but the ratio of stolen to legitimate copies is pretty startling:
The system works pretty well if you have a few thousand people online at once. The system works…less well if there are tens of thousands of people online at once. And if there are over 100,000 people, well, you get horrific results such as the game being incredibly unresponsive due to simple web service calls that were considered pretty benign during the beta that suddenly start to bring down firewalls and such due to the sheer massive number of calls that are being made.

Sadly, most of the ~120,000 connections are not customers but via warez. About 18,000 are legitimate. So anyway, we spent a lot of time today trying to isolate out the warez users from the legitimate users (it would require a lot of surgery to actually break them and even if we did, there’d be no friendly “ha ha pirate” message which would result in people just saying the game is buggy). Mind you, the game makes relatively few server calls, it’s just the sheer number of people.
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96 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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96.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 20, 2009, 09:05
96.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 20, 2009, 09:05
Apr 20, 2009, 09:05
 
The crime those guys committed was thumbing their noses at the companies who put out all of that media and thinking they could get away with it. They went out of their way to brag and taunt them. They got far less than they deserved considering they have probably been responsible for losses close to the billions in copyrighted materials. They made a search engine for the sole purpose of indexing copyrighted content. That's the difference between them and other search engines.
95.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 19, 2009, 14:21
95.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 19, 2009, 14:21
Apr 19, 2009, 14:21
 
You do realize that google and any other web-crawler is committing the very same crime those 4 guys "committed" ? Even commercially?

just try filetype:torrent and a name of software/movie

This court-sentence reeks of bribery | Or nil understanding of technology by the judge | What this decision is actually doing, is making google and company illegal, yeah.. good luck with that

Google is not solely dedicated to breaking copyright laws, and in fact has warnings not to do so. The Pirate Bay was all about breaking copyright laws, encouraged users to do so and bragged about allowing them to do so.
Avatar 54622
94.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 18, 2009, 13:32
94.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 18, 2009, 13:32
Apr 18, 2009, 13:32
 
No, there is a difference. And yes, I realize that most new search engines will provide links to illegal as well as legal sites/files.

Those four douches focused on illegal activities from day one. For how many years were they providing links to download illegally pirated media before legit companies began using Torrents to reduce their bandwidth costs? So comparing them to google is a joke right?

Trying to rationalize their years of illegal activity as a common practice because search engines now provide links to Torrent files/sites is how you justify your illegal use of media owned by others. And I hope this does change the way all engines/sites list them. De-listing the illegals and only listing the legal shit.

They had fair warning to stop the shit, repeatedly. Yet they pretended to be acting as if they we on a crusade fighting the evil empires that hold the rights to the software and media they were helping others steal and distribute freely. Get real.

I can only hope that where you live somebody will soon break in and steal all your valuables and then maybe you'll have some understanding? But I doubt it...
Avatar 11537
93.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 18, 2009, 02:34
Flo
93.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 18, 2009, 02:34
Apr 18, 2009, 02:34
Flo
 
If they use SOAP Web Service Calls there is of course the XML overhead reducing performance. I bet they do since Stardock & Impulse seem to embrace Microsoft .NET Technology, which is pretty okay for me since I'm a .NET developer as well
There are of course faster alternatives but hey, we just love 'em Web Services
Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"
92.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 18, 2009, 01:48
92.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 18, 2009, 01:48
Apr 18, 2009, 01:48
 
You do realize that google and any other web-crawler is committing the very same crime those 4 guys "committed" ? Even commercially?

just try filetype:torrent and a name of software/movie

This court-sentence reeks of bribery | Or nil understanding of technology by the judge | What this decision is actually doing, is making google and company illegal, yeah.. good luck with that
Avatar 54727
91.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 18, 2009, 00:44
91.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 18, 2009, 00:44
Apr 18, 2009, 00:44
 
Bottom Line http://www.gametab.com/news/2951826/

You do the crime you may be doing the time now too. SWEET!
Avatar 11537
90.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 23:06
90.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 23:06
Apr 17, 2009, 23:06
 
They are not up the task from a coding standpoint either, who makes an HTTP call and doesn't take it out of the UI loop ? You know what happens when the connection drops packets? You get an black screen of death, and not just if the server is unresponsive, also when your connection drops or just plain sucks, and even if your Router mangles the request and it times out. This just plain bad coding and would have happened even with 0 piracy...

You know, this reminds me of Red Alert 3 which did the same thing, and had the same problem.
Avatar 54727
89.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 19:37
89.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 19:37
Apr 17, 2009, 19:37
 
Uh, wake me when you aren't comparing a product that's been out less than a week with one that had been out for over 3 months.

I don't see anything wrong with the comparison he made. What do the dates matter? Crytek was moaning about piracy two weeks after release. Do you think Demigod will have 2mil copies pirated in a year?
Avatar 54452
88.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 19:18
88.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 19:18
Apr 17, 2009, 19:18
 
Except that was not the case. The pirate copies only attempted to connect to the server to do a version and activation check, nothing was actually sent out to them. Meanwhile, legit copies have had the address they are pointed to changed so that they are essentially operating on a different server group now.

While pirates are unable to partake in multiplayer, the initial version of Demigod pinged a server for updates when the game started. That was changed in yesterday's patch.

Correct, it simply pinged a server - every time the game started though. I would think it would make sense to do a validation check first and or require some sort of authentication process before being allowed to access even a patch server. Either way, it looks like they're not up to the task from an IT standpoint.

This comment was edited on Apr 17, 2009, 19:20.
Avatar 6174
87.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 18:36
Prez
 
87.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 18:36
Apr 17, 2009, 18:36
 Prez
 
Also: there were 18,000 concurrent legit connections. Not sales, but connections.

Considering that L4D peaks around 20,000 concurrent users (TF2 around 16,000), this seems pretty good to me, especially for a title that depends on having an active online community.

That's a good point. I didn't even consider that, but I think you could be right. I'd like to think that more than 18K gamers thought it was worth buying a good game and supporting a great developer and publisher.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
86.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 18:25
RP
86.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 18:25
Apr 17, 2009, 18:25
RP
 
Also: there were 18,000 concurrent legit connections. Not sales, but connections.

Considering that L4D peaks around 20,000 concurrent users (TF2 around 16,000), this seems pretty good to me, especially for a title that depends on having an active online community.
85.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 18:24
Prez
 
85.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 18:24
Apr 17, 2009, 18:24
 Prez
 
Mmmmm... Jailbait. Ahem! Sorry.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
84.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 18:18
NKD
84.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 18:18
Apr 17, 2009, 18:18
NKD
 
No, Disney wouldn't be damaged by it. Why? Because there would be nothing stopping Disney from continuing to use the character commercially or otherwise. Disney simply wouldn't have the exclusive right to use it. And, if you think about some of the most successful Disney "creations" in its history, many if not most are based upon IP that either lacked copyright or whose copyright expired at the time Disney used it. Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, etc. are all based upon stories and material that was in the public domain when Disney made its own derivative works from them. So, it's hypocritical and short-sighted of Disney to suggest that its copyrights shouldn't expire as quickly as those in the past. In addition do you really think that people would stop buying Mickey Mouse merchandise and videos from Disney simply because it no longer had the exclusive rights to the character? Hell, no they wouldn't because people would want to get it from the official source.

Plus they can just whore out Miley Cyrus and all her other little jailbait friends now, they don't need Mickey Mouse.
"Sometimes, there are two sides. But more often, one side says it is a car. And one side says it is an umbrella. And only one is right. And the other one doesn’t deserve our attention." -Shepard Smith
Avatar 43041
83.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 18:15
83.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 18:15
Apr 17, 2009, 18:15
 
Serving up patches to users before checking to see if they're legit customers or not requires some sort of magical powers to see the problem with this idea?

Except that was not the case. The pirate copies only attempted to connect to the server to do a version and activation check, nothing was actually sent out to them. Meanwhile, legit copies have had the address they are pointed to changed so that they are essentially operating on a different server group now.

There are some issues right now on the multiplayer side, the one I've seen is skirmish matches/pantheon tend to get set up as 2v2 on Crucible, but this is known and will likely quickly be resolved. It's just a bit annoying, since I think the multi really starts to shine at 3v3+.
82.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 18:08
82.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 18:08
Apr 17, 2009, 18:08
 
I'm just waiting for someone to say that it's Stardock's fault for not anticipating this

Is this their first game ever?

Serving up patches to users before checking to see if they're legit customers or not requires some sort of magical powers to see the problem with this idea?

What they should have done is detected the user running a pirated copy and updated their version with a "special" patch, make the game work for five minutes and then bring up a "don't copy that floppy" message.

This comment was edited on Apr 17, 2009, 18:11.
Avatar 6174
81.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 17:12
GT
81.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 17:12
Apr 17, 2009, 17:12
GT
 
Disney still uses that character consistently and it would damage their interests extremely if they lost their rights over that character.
No, Disney wouldn't be damaged by it. Why? Because there would be nothing stopping Disney from continuing to use the character commercially or otherwise. Disney simply wouldn't have the exclusive right to use it. And, if you think about some of the most successful Disney "creations" in its history, many if not most are based upon IP that either lacked copyright or whose copyright expired at the time Disney used it. Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, etc. are all based upon stories and material that was in the public domain when Disney made its own derivative works from them. So, it's hypocritical and short-sighted of Disney to suggest that its copyrights shouldn't expire as quickly as those in the past. In addition do you really think that people would stop buying Mickey Mouse merchandise and videos from Disney simply because it no longer had the exclusive rights to the character? Hell no, they wouldn't because people would still want to get it from the official source.

This comment was edited on Apr 17, 2009, 19:17.
80.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 16:31
80.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 16:31
Apr 17, 2009, 16:31
 
The connection being that it's a lot easier to make fluffy PR statements when people are grabbing 100,000 copies of your title instead of 2,000,000.

Uh, wake me when you aren't comparing a product that's been out less than a week with one that had been out for over 3 months.
79.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 16:28
79.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 16:28
Apr 17, 2009, 16:28
 
It's not just PR. The actions taken by both companies are quite different. We can debate about whether or not 2 million copies were lost compared to a perfect world where all prospective customers purchased, but the fact of the matter is the actions they've taken to secure those 2 million copies are (1) impotent and (2) invasive to paying customers.

I believe they'd better serve their customer base if companies were more like stardock. Others believe they'd be destitute and on the street if they took that path. I guess we shall see how impluse pans out in the future...
78.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 16:18
78.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 16:18
Apr 17, 2009, 16:18
 
And that somehow makes Crytek more of a company and less of a charity than Stardock? I don't see the connection.

The connection being that it's a lot easier to make fluffy PR statements when people are grabbing 100,000 copies of your title instead of 2,000,000. You lose $20 out of your wallet in real life it's annoying but you move on. You lose $1000 in real life you don't just discount it.
77.
 
Re: Demigod & Piracy
Apr 17, 2009, 15:55
77.
Re: Demigod & Piracy Apr 17, 2009, 15:55
Apr 17, 2009, 15:55
 
Last time I checked 2 million people didn't download Demigod. What a silly comparison.

And that somehow makes Crytek more of a company and less of a charity than Stardock? I don't see the connection.

You agreed with my point about the pirates activities and not pissing off your paying customer base. So, if we are to assume that the pirates would steal the same number of copies whether limited activations or more draconian measures are there or not, then why waste the time/money on it? Obviously you don't just make a torrent and say "cooome and get it!", but there is a point of diminishing returns. I believe companies like stardock have the right idea and aren't wasting extra resources or letting DRM get in the way of sales, while companies like crytek/EA aren't helping their customer base or aren't reducing piracy by any significant amount with the extra measures they've taken.

This comment was edited on Apr 17, 2009, 16:11.
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