TF2 Cheats Disciplined

The Team Fortress 2 Website has another scolding from the TF Announcer, who is dismayed to learn players are unlocking Team Fortress 2 achievements by cheating, forcing a few week-long suspensions:
This time it seems a number of you used an external application to unlock all of your achievements in order to get items unfairly. Coming as a surprise to no one with the ability to retain memories of the recent past, I have taken these items from the perpetrators for one week.

Can I trust that this episode has finally taught you a lesson? I should live so long. Having watched how the sorry lot of you comport yourselves on the battlefield and in the forums, I would consider it a small miracle to trust one of you enough to lick stamps without asphyxiating.
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82 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 3.
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42.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 18:32
42.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 18:32
Feb 27, 2009, 18:32
 
I only bought TF2 yesterday so I don't really give a damn about achievements yet as I still can't use the default weapons for shit, but I think the rampant attempts to circumvent the achievement system is enough to suggest something isn't right.

Perhaps you will always just get that sort of thing, but to my mind, achievements should be things that encourage players to play the game as they normally would, supporting their teammates, but with more skill. It ought to be along the lines of 'steal the enemies intel X many times in Y many minutes'--something you would otherwise be doing anyways, but with the encouragement to try yet harder.

If the achievements are so ridiculously laid out that you have to abandon the spirit of the game and your teammates solely to earn some far flung achievement for yourself, it's probably just as well that people are using achievement servers or cheat apps instead of mussing up proper servers with their antics.

As has been mentioned before, make the achievements more along the lines of military decorations--something that you can flaunt that demonstrates your skill, not an entirely new gameplay element. The weapons they just ought to give you.

All the same, the third party app is definitely cheating, regardless of whether or not it gives players an advantage. The achievement servers are cheap for sure, but IMO still within the bounds of fair play, though boring, grinding, OCD-rife, fair play of course.

The bit about the stamps is genius though.

41.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 18:31
41.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 18:31
Feb 27, 2009, 18:31
 
I already have a job. I don't need another job "unlocking" stuff in a game I get to play maybe 2 times a week.

Why should Valve award new stuff to people who can sit around playing all day to get it? My money was just as green as theirs.
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40.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 18:26
40.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 18:26
Feb 27, 2009, 18:26
 
I think the achievements need to be setup so everyone earns them over time. Have them tied to stupid things like kills in one game, or 2 or 3 kills in a row with one weapon, something that you can do while you play the game however you like.
The ONLY thing that can work is to tie it to play time per class, which I think would work brilliantly. The problem with tying them to kills or captures is that it may not be appropriate for the moment - i.e. going for a kill / capture to get an achievement when you should be supporting your team. Whereas if you tie the top unlock to say 100hrs as that class then it has absolutely no bearing on your game behaviour, other than the imbalance from having to play a particular class.

You admit yourself that you go find empty servers just to earn these achievements.
Exactly. How are they fun if you feel the need to hop into an empty server to get them?

No, you aren't playing at all. You are using a third party program to gain access to something you haven't earned access to. It's cheating.
Using a program is wrong, sure, but what about achievement servers? Servers where people help each other specifically to get them and where they have rows of spawned characters and level features designed to help you get them? Or how about people playing to get them in a game instead of helping their team? Where is the line drawn?

Personally I'm not in a hurry to get them but I just hope they're on par with the pyro update, which was very well balanced (achieved in normal gameplay instead of the more unreasonable medic achievements).
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
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39.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 18:20
Jow
39.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 18:20
Feb 27, 2009, 18:20
Jow
 
There are only a couple that I think aren't particularly fun to do. The rest I find pretty enjoyable, so I'm definitely not in the "this isn't fun" camp.
38.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 18:19
38.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 18:19
Feb 27, 2009, 18:19
 
I think the achievements need to be setup so everyone earns them over time. Have them tied to stupid things like kills in one game, or 2 or 3 kills in a row with one weapon, something that you can do while you play the game however you like.

Why have the weapons "earned" though? Why not just give the weapons and then give the achievements? This way you can still have weird quirky achievements that a player isn't going to normally get and when someone does get it, they feel special because not many other people have it. On top of that no one has to grind or "cheat" by going onto empty servers, using achievement servers, or sabotaging their team. Everyone has the weapons and the people that like the achievements can go get them.

What the grind monkeys can't see is that by linking the weapons and achievements both are cheapened. If it wasn't a problem why has valve nerfed some of the achievement weapons and reduced the amount of achievements required to unlock the weapons? They just aren't brave enough to take the final step.
37.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 18:13
37.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 18:13
Feb 27, 2009, 18:13
 
HAHA, I was hoping Valve would crack down on this.
36.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 17:52
36.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 17:52
Feb 27, 2009, 17:52
 
I think the whole situation stinks and says a lot more about the quality of the people "circumventing" the system to avoid having to earn the rewards (which they are, ultimately) than it does Valve not preventing every single way of being able to accomplish this.

Granted it's free, but why add something to a game people aren't going to have fun earning? You admit yourself that you go find empty servers just to earn these achievements. Pretty hypocritical to bitch about people circumventing the system and then go do it yourself...

I think the achievements need to be setup so everyone earns them over time. Have them tied to stupid things like kills in one game, or 2 or 3 kills in a row with one weapon, something that you can do while you play the game however you like.

I'd be happy to take a week long break, aka get banned, if it meant I got the weapon unlocks. I don't see the point in spending time accomplishing these bizarre tasks. Just let us play the game.
35.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 17:35
Kxmode
 
35.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 17:35
Feb 27, 2009, 17:35
 Kxmode
 
I would consider it a small miracle to trust one of you enough to lick stamps without asphyxiating

Pure poetry haha
"...and in stonks, Fizzy Squeezy Stocklebocks leaped over Droopy Whoopy Bondfluffs, hitting 300-gigglebits to their 150-snorebucks. Meanwhile, in Whimsyland's market, the pancakes reached parity with pogo sticks."
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34.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:47
Jow
34.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:47
Feb 27, 2009, 16:47
Jow
 
I LIKE the achievements and the unlocks as I think they change gameplay in interesting ways. That said, I also prefer to play and work toward them as I find it much more satisfying earning them the "right way". However, I'll also admit to going on empty servers with a buddy a couple of times to clear out a few of the really asinine ones (the one where you light a spy's cigarette comes to mind). *shrug*

I think the whole situation stinks and says a lot more about the quality of the people "circumventing" the system to avoid having to earn the rewards (which they are, ultimately) than it does Valve not preventing every single way of being able to accomplish this.
33.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:45
33.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:45
Feb 27, 2009, 16:45
 
They are still playing by the game rules.

No, you aren't playing at all. You are using a third party program to gain access to something you haven't earned access to. It's cheating.

Its no more cheating than someone who bought a character on WoW.

Hey dumbass...buying characters is against the WoW EULA and is considered cheating. If they can prove you "bought" someone elses character/account, they have every right to shut down that account. Try reading next time instead of making up shit.

The number of achievement farm servers and the achievement hack is pretty solid evidence valve screwed up the achievement weapon link.

So I guess servers that limit class usage in TF2, DoDs or weapon usage in CSS, or disbale friendly fire, or alter the amount of health you start with, etc, etc, etc...this all means Valve screwed up too?

God some people are just freaking retarded.
32.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:36
32.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:36
Feb 27, 2009, 16:36
 
My my, quite the hyperbole, isn't there? Anecdotal evidence about achievement servers is suddenly proof that Valve "screwed up"? Achievements are a "plague"?

Achievement servers are nothing more than evidence that people have the option to go about unlocking these weapons in different ways if they feel like it. For fuck's sake, their existance is precisely the reason why no one should be pissed off at all.

It gives everyone the option to play how they want to. Want to unlock the weapons gradually? Great. Want everything right here, right now? Fantastic, you can do that too.

The only reason why anyone's pissed about this is because you have the completely false preconcieved notion that the new weapons are better instead of just different. People convince themselves that they are at a disadvantage without the weapons, and are therefore pressured into the "need" to cheat, when in actuality, that's not the case at all.



You guys can bitch and moan however much you want about how achievements being tied to weapons are a "plague" or are "ruining" Team Fortress 2, but here we are, a year after Valve started with them, and the community is just as strong as ever. Sales are (apparently) just as strong as ever.

Once again, you've fooled yoursevles into thinking that an extremely tiny niche of message board dwellers represents the opinion of the community at large. Valve obviously has real numbers, real figures that demonstrate the exact opposite, otherwise they would have changed their methods.

This comment was edited on Feb 27, 2009, 16:40.
31.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:27
31.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:27
Feb 27, 2009, 16:27
 
Problem is valve insists upon being stupid with achievements. Just separate the achievements and new weapons. The new weapons are why I really don't play TF2 anymore. I don't feel like grinding to get better guns (a number of them actually are strictly better.)

As for "cheating", bullshit. They are still playing by the game rules. Its no more cheating than someone who bought a character on WoW. They were just smart and skipped the grind they didn't enjoy. If you enjoy the grind, great. If you hate the grind, why have you been kissing Valve's ass, tell them they did something stupid. In the end they have no advantage over you.

The number of achievement farm servers and the achievement hack is pretty solid evidence valve screwed up the achievement weapon link. I can only hope companies start to wake up and this plague of companies adding levels/grind in wholly inappropriate places ends. Keep it to the single player games and the shitty MMOs.

This comment was edited on Feb 27, 2009, 16:29.
30.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:25
30.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:25
Feb 27, 2009, 16:25
 
Ditto on what LMN8R said. Saves me some time from having to write a long post telling you how most of you sound like pathetic little toddlers (inparticular Tanto Edge).

The new weapons do not give others an advantage. They all have negatives to go with their positives. You do not get to use all weapons at the same time. I feel no less effective playing a Heavy that doesn't have the unlocks.

As for using a third party program to gain access to the unlockables...it's cheating, end of story. There is no gray area because you only unlocked 1 or 2 of them.

Those cheaters that think they have gotten away with it...do you really think they are done banning people? Is it not possible they just didn't get to you in the database yet? Morons.
29.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:18
29.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:18
Feb 27, 2009, 16:18
 
Robin Walker is the game industry's George Lucas.

And Crits were his Jar Jar Binks.
28.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:07
28.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:07
Feb 27, 2009, 16:07
 
Those that used the external application in a smart manner(I am sure you can figure out what that means) will not be punished because there is no way for Valve to see whether 1 achievement was gained using actual playing or external application. Those fools that decided to select and send to get all achievements possible at once deserve what they get...
"On 2646.215 I myself attacked & destroyed TCS Tiger's Claw in my Jalthi heavy fighter"
Bakhtosh Redclaw Nar Kiranka
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27.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:05
Jow
27.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:05
Feb 27, 2009, 16:05
Jow
 
This whole "one week" thing is retarded. They cheated and in my opinion should lose the ability to achieve the scout unlocks again... period.
26.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 16:00
26.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 16:00
Feb 27, 2009, 16:00
 
Am I right in thinking that if you use this application the result is that, if you do get caught, you'll be able to keep the achievements / unlocks and use them after the week ban is up? In which case why wouldn't people want to do that? A week is barely any punishment if it saves putting in the effort.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Avatar 22891
25.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 15:33
25.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 15:33
Feb 27, 2009, 15:33
 
Well it's Valves own fault for trying to turn TF2 into an MMO. What's the next update going to include, an achievement to collect 50 wolf pelts?

Wait a second, wasn't Valve one of the original companies to have Achievements? They are certainly new in Warcraft and included in Warhammer when it was released a few short months ago.
"In questions about good and bad, we ought not to follow the opinion of the many, but the opinion of the one who has understanding."
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24.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 15:04
24.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 15:04
Feb 27, 2009, 15:04
 
I won't be chilling out any time soon..
I don't care what gender the typist was (although I wouldn't kick a woman in any part of their anatomy, him is better than it) and my point still stands.
Don't punish your players because they're taking advantage of the framework you left open.
Cheating outright during a competition is dirty and I can understand giving out temporary bans on that. However, temp bans on "achievement" farming (oh I'm so accomplished) while 'sensible' in some circles, come out as the question "Who's to blame" in my mind.

Edit: Why don't they just prevent the 12 Scouts vs 12 Scouts bit by doing a round robin of guns for all classes?
What I mean is, make a single gun and a few achievements for every class, rather than three guns and shit load of achievements for one class.
Spread that wealth a bit thinner and thicken it on the next pass.

This comment was edited on Feb 27, 2009, 15:07.
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23.
 
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined
Feb 27, 2009, 14:50
23.
Re: TF2 Cheats Disciplined Feb 27, 2009, 14:50
Feb 27, 2009, 14:50
 
Except for the fact that the scout is way overpowered now. He can slip past sentries unharmed, and essentially stop an uber team dead in its tracks. Scout is the ONLY class that can do ANYTHING to an uber team (if you don't count the Pyro's minor ability to blast them back).
Seems like a lack of skill to me. I have no problem killing scouts just as I didn't have a problem before this update. If a scout slips past a sentry unharmed and that actually causes a detriment to your team, then it's your fricken team's fault! If you leave a sentry untended allowing the scout to achieve something major by simply slipping past it, then it's your own fault for expecting a sentry to be overly capable on its own, and it's your team's fault for lacking any other form of proper defense.

Same thing with stopping an uber team dead in its tracks - this is one thing that Valve will probably work on, as I mentioned in my original post where I already said that Valve certainly hasn't been perfect here, but even that doesn't make them unstoppable. It simply changes up the strategy. The old ways don't work anymore - now you have to be sure to change up your tactics to adapt to the changing field. Scouts are still as unarmored as ever, and it's easy to take them down to prevent them from stopping an uber team.

And, it's not like an uber team was totally unstoppable before, so you shouldn't expect them to be unstoppable now.


I like the achievements, and many other people do too. For those who want to circumvent them with tools or achievenent servers, good for them. I don't feel at a disadvantage when I don't do that, because the weapons are well-balanced enough to allow me to continue to be effective. I'll get the weapons whenever I happen to get the achievents, seems simply enough to me.


Fuck that! It's not their fault that Valve can't control their kids. Guess what, if you design it, and we get around it, you're at fault, not us.
It's up to the designer to ensure the end user can properly utilize whatever it is they've designed.

This is bullshit.

Can I trust that this episode has finally taught you a lesson?
I want to kick him in his teeth.
Time for you to chill out and learn the concept of "sarcasm"

It's not a "him" who's saying that, it's the aggressive, evil-sounding female announcer who says that in-game. It's not like Valve is actually scolding as children those who use the unlocker program, they're using the personality of the character they already built up.

This comment was edited on Feb 27, 2009, 14:51.
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