As to real world physics, read 'Protector' by Larry Niven. The space combat takes years at near light speeds. Great book.

I really object to paying to get raped, that is the worst!

Hey, in Vegas you pay triple for that kind of action.

I'll double down on that.

Egosoft has stated several times that they will patch the TAGES stuff out about a year after release, so you could always pick it up then.

Thanks for the info Creston - I'll be picking up then myself.

- J

in I-War 2, you spend it in a modified tug! (Go Puffer Class).

I remember so many people complaining that I-War 2 was way too hard, it was hard when you were stuck with the garbage tug, but once you got the PatCom and heavy corvette so you could finally defend yourself against incoming missiles and mount proper kit, it became much easier.

My favorite thing about I-War 2 was the multiple joystick support, I had a whole Steel Battalion thing going on cobbled together from a pair of flightsticks, a throttle (Which I gutted and "integrated" into the left flightstick, buttons and all, the end result was something like a SpaceOrb 360 except big, ugly and extremely scary looking) and 3 pedals, to fully control the ship while in combat. I even broke out the tools and built a special clamping rig out of spare timber to fix all the controllers in place and give the whole thing some extra immersion.

As far as I know, double joystick support is also available in X3, however the combat isn't as exciting.

Wowbagger_TIP:
Amen brother! Legit customers are probably 90% of the people actually bothered by DRM. Most non legit users of a program will just get a crack.

Random example: I paid $100 for a student version of one of the math programs for a class. I wanted to be a good little customer and pay them for the program I was using. When I got it, I found it REQUIRED the cd to be in my LAPTOP drive every time I booted it. They already crippled the program for students (fortunately I didn't need any additional functionality) and then they had to throw DRM on it too. The noisy laptop drive that would be distracting to the class. (the teacher encouraged us to follow along with examples on laptops while in class).

The only recourse was to search the net for a crack. Turns out, no one bothers to crack the student version when there's the umpteen thousand dollar version to crack. So uninstall, reinstall, and just not bother to check all those options on install that tend to be $100-$1000+ each since only the student functionality was needed.

Legit customer, TRYING to get a legit version instead of the cracked version on the net that I KNEW was out there because I had spotted it before, and inconvenianced by DRM so much that had to get the full version.

I TRIED to be a good customer and give them my money. Apparently they didn't much want me as one.

I get beat down enough as a legit customer (thats only one example of many I could mention), put enough roadblocks in front of me being a legit customer, and eventually I may not bother with trying to be a customer at all.

One other example I'll throw out there. Those music services shutting down the authentication servers (like the MS one, you can't tell me they don't have enough money to keep running it). Who is actually going to be inconvenianced by that? Its going to be 100% only the people who purchased the music and find out when they reformat they can't download it or reactivate it anymore. Any of those who used p2p or whatever to get the mp3s, no inconveniance at all.

Ironically enough, that DRM they put on the student version of the math program (the full version you just needed a liscense key file thingy, no need for the CD, so they put specially annoying DRM on JUST the student version. The big corporate version got the easy DRM) didn't matter in the end because NO ONE cared about the crappy student version enough to actually crack it.

This comment was edited on Feb 18, 2009, 19:55.

. Funny enough I never hear anyone complain that X3 isn't Bridge Commander, which is a comparison that would make exactly the same amount of sense?

Did you ever play I-War? The biggest "captial ship" you get in the game is a little Corvette at most. Most of the time, in I-War 2, you spend it in a modified tug! (Go Puffer Class).

X3 and I-War are direct comparisons because you're flying a ship, alone, doing fighting, missions and trading.

Actually, for the older gamers amongst us, you might recall Elite:Frontier, which had full Newtonian flight simulation.

Combat in Elite : Frontier fucking sucked. I'm sure it was terribly realistic, it was also boring as shit. My favorite moments in that game always came when some fucker in a tiny little scout ship with NO WEAPONS "attacked" my Panther Clipper with its shields that were 400 METERS thick, and you could never fucking hit the damn thing. But because he was "attacking" you, it also meant you couldn't speed up time, because after all, here was a giant threat to your existence.

And even in "normal" fights, it was : approach at 10km/s, fire one little beam of energy, zoom by each other, turn around (taking 3 minutes to do), approach at 10km/s, fire one beam of energy, zoom by each other, repeat ad infinitum until FINALLY he died.

No, MORE games should use this...

I love how the biggest complaint against X3 is always "It's not I-War!"

No. It's not. It also never tried to be, or was meant to be. This isn't a capship combat simulator. Funny enough I never hear anyone complain that X3 isn't Bridge Commander, which is a comparison that would make exactly the same amount of sense?

Damn that Dawn of War 2 game. It's not pacman!

Creston

There is no Starforce on TC, though I've heard some reports of the TAGES drivers not working under Windows 7.

There are, however, plenty of people who run the game on Vista 64 bit.

Creston

Actually, for the older gamers amongst us, you might recall Elite:Frontier, which had full Newtonian flight simulation.

I do, and apparently the guys at Particle Systems did too as they took the idea and refined it to a playable state. I-War was very approachable for the Tie Fighter crowd as it had managed flight controls if that was your thing (aka Prop Planes in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace).

Fuck X3!!! I can't even run the demo... apparently Starforce doesn't support Vista 64bit. I don't want demos installing drivers EVER!. That's bad enough but I'm not even able to play the bloody game. My patience has run out. Egosoft is never going to get my money.

I guess that teaches me a nice lesson: if the demo isn't on Steam don't bother - it will take an eternity to download, be infested with malware and probably won't even work.

Kill me. Kill me now.

I buy my games on Steam so I can't simply "copy" them for my friends anyway.

Just google for "Steam Undead Patch". And then for some alternative patches. It is easy to make playable copies of your Steam games for your friends. Very easy.

That's because I-War was the only game that felt "right" to our expectations of what flight in zero gravity should be.

Actually, for the older gamers amongst us, you might recall Elite:Frontier, which had full Newtonian flight simulation.

Dogfights were frustrating because you were plummeting towards your planetary destination of choice at upwards of 150 kilometers per second, and every movement you made while "dogfighting" (which indeed felt like jousting). You could never come to a complete stop (you needed a deceleration burn) and the radical maneuvers you would describe cost you dearly in fuel you needed to make that deceleration.

This was particularly painful when you had a mission to a quaternary star system (4 suns) and had to cruise across interstellar space between solar systems with your engines off because you'd run out of fuel before you made it half way if you constantly accelerated. A dog fight might find you too short on fuel to decelerate either slamming you in to a planet at a rate of kilometers per second or a clean miss which would see you curving out the far side of the solar system to drift on forever, at least until you reload... =)

Never mind the fact that with time compression at 32x it could still take an hour or two to cross interstellar space.

This might appeal to enthusiasts (I loved it), but most people who found Tie Fighter to be their style of combat would absolutely despise it. X3 is a half and half (there are some inertia effects) but I think the core of the game is more about fleet/group combat and trading than a pure fighting game.

Have you tried the Evochron Legends demo?
http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/index.htm

I did and I wish the developer all the best but it doesn't have the production value of I-War. I bought Renegades a long time ago but never played it. I just bought it to see if we could get better, higher quality space sims back in to the market.

I also purchased Starshatter for the same reason.

I really object to paying to get raped, that is the worst!

Hey, in Vegas you pay triple for that kind of action.

Creston

No, it has nothing to do with copying. DRM is an assault on my patience and my leisure time. The only thing I am mad about is having to remove the chronic, digital molestation of my data.

You like having every company down your pants, that's fine for you! I'm sure some people do like getting raped, but it's just not my thing. I really object to paying to get raped, that is the worst!

oh and STFU already about DRM. I have had it on many games and no one raped me. I guess your pissed you couldnt copy it for your friends or yourself huh? Thats about it.

That's just dumb. Since when does DRM stop anyone from using a copy? Just cruise on over to the pirate bay and download it if you want. No DRM, no problem. DRM is only a pain in the ass for people who actually buy the game.

That's because I-War was the only game that felt "right" to our expectations of what flight in zero gravity should be. Most everything else feels like I am flying a camera (the X series) or a P-38 in Space (Wing Commander, Tie Fighter and Free/Starlancer).

Have you tried the Evochron Legends demo?
http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/index.htm

Its got flight mechanics that remind me of I-War, and a lot of other great features I haven't found in a space sim in years. Just discovered it last week thanks to a blues post.

oh and STFU already about DRM. I have had it on many games and no one raped me. I guess your pissed you couldnt copy it for your friends or yourself huh?

It's a serious inconvenience for legitimate users. Instead of simply installing a game I own I have to worry about activating and deactivating it, losing activations if I format my computer without deactivating. I buy my games on Steam so I can't simply "copy" them for my friends anyway.

NEway, I'm still trying to download the demo. It's ridiculous the amount of trouble I've had trying to get a demo of X3... GamersHell got to 235MB of 904MB before deciding to stop altogether (after crawling along at 25k). When the fuck did game download sites become so utter shit? No wonder people pirate games when it's less hassle than downloading a legitimate demo. It's embarrassing that we're actually going backwards in this respect. I wish the demo was up on Steam... it would have saved me so much bother.

Can anyone suggest a space sim game kind of like X3 with its GOOD graphics & open world game play, just not one so complex? Maybe a cross between Freespace, & X3?

That pretty much sums up this game: http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/index.htm Certainly easier to get into with more flight/trade based gameplay without the business micromanagement. You may or may not like it, but as an old Freespace fan myself who enjoys space trading games also, this one is a blast to play. Plus it has multiplayer.

This comment was edited on Feb 18, 2009, 15:44.

oh and STFU already about DRM. I have had it on many games and no one raped me. I guess your pissed you couldnt copy it for your friends or yourself huh? Thats about it.