@ Prez

Spore got so many million downloads, blah blah blah. Last I heard, EA was bragging about ho much money they are making off of Spore. To me, that fact alone pretty much shoots the theory that piracy causes games to fail out of the water.

Coming from you, this is a pretty surprising statement. At least to me.

I sure hope you're not saying that just because you make $5, you should ignore the fact that you could've made $10 if some bastards weren't pirating the game.

If you are asserting this, then I'm sorry to say that your statements are a PERFECT example of WHY publishers will ALWAYS restort to Draconian - albeit ineffective - DRM schemes.

@ wallace321

I've never heard anybody (EVER) say that piracy isn't a problem on the PC but get something straight:

Piracy affects publishers.
DRM affects customers.

Piracy is a problem for publishers.
DRM is a problem for customers.

Piracy is a problem. But what is the solution to piracy? (or rather, what solution have publishers chosen?) DRM

And what's the solution to DRM? (Example problems: Ran out of activations after you upgraded your videocard? Securom detected DaemonTools or Nero and refuses to install your game? Your Direct2Drive game is asking for the CD? Lost the manual for your old game so you don't know what the 3rd letter in the 1st word on page 67 is? StarForce doesn't work in Vista x64?)

Ironic, isn't it?

The irony is not in the fact that this sort of problem exists, but rather in the fact that these inconveniences are actually a topic of discussion. Especially when you take into account that no matter HOW to slice and dice it, if piracy wasn't a problem in various mediums (music, movies, games) that DRM wouldn't even be an issue.

Result: people pirate the PC version and don't buy the console version? PC = bad. This is new. I've never heard this one before actually. I hope you're not serious - this take PC persecution to a whole new level. That's like saying people eating at McDonalds affects Red Lobster across the street (they're two ENTIRELY different products sold to ENTIRELY different people. please don't get technical, this is a fact.)

Maybe its new to you. But to someone like me who has been in the industry for more than twenty years and seen gaming since its VERY BEGINNING, it is nothing new.

That number - which you clearly pulled out of your ass - is just that: a number you clearly pulled out of your ass. Even the piracy figures for the likes of Spore, prove as much. Lets even get into Mass Effect, Bioshock etc.

Your McDonalds analogy is braindead, foolish and without merit. Its not even within the realms of Apples to Oranges because that would imply that it actually had some semblance of sensibility.

Scenario 2. Release a game on consoles a year or two before the PC version -
milk it for all its worth - it sold on consoles, it will be easy to port to pc and make a few extra bucks!

Result: the people who would have bought the PC version probably already got it for the console, PC version is a crappy port (from PS2 even?), PC version is overshadowed by much better titles released since original release. PC sales suck. PC = bad

Exhibit A: Gears of War - GfW:live + Copy protection issues + Bugs
Exhibit B: Halo 2 Required Vista, end of story
Exhibit C: Resident Evil 4 - PS2 Port, Console-itis (fixed with a patch?)
Exhibit D: Devil May Cry 4 - Console controls, 4th Game in a series never on PC before
Exhibit E: EA Sports Anything half assed port from PS2 version 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, etc...

Yet another foolish assumption.

It is already a KNOWN fact that more and more triple-A games are coming out first on the console and then on the PC. In fact, most upcoming games aren't even earmarked for the PC, past their development (ALL games are developed on the PC). And in the very near future, most of said games will never see the light of day on the PC. Case in point: EndWar, Gears of War 2 and many other upcoming 2008 and beyond games.

PC gaming is going to be relegated to the likes of unpopular genres and from publishers who are entrenched in PC gaming. While small publishers like Stardock - due to their much lower overhead and the fact that they can get games for dirt cheap (e.g. it is reported that Sins cost less than $250K to make. And that doesn't include Stardock's publisher expenses such as marketing and production, all of which are deducted from the developer's royalties anyway) can coast on e.g. 500K units of a game like Sins, that number isn't even in the ballpark of most top end publishers expectations for their sales targets.

At the end of the day, when you develop a game you plan on releasing for the PC, you better take into account that there is a very good chance that 75% or more of the sales is going to be lost to piracy. So you had better plan to make your money back on 25%.

So in retrospect, if you spend $500K on a $40 game, as a publisher, you're looking at around $25 per unit from retail. After marketing, production, DRM fees (which can be as high as .50c per unit in some cases) etc, you end up with about $22 per unit. Well, you'd need to sell about 228K units in order to just break even. Guess how long that would take - assuming it ever happens - if you are losing even 50% of your sales to piracy. That problem pretty much drops your per unit take to about $10 per unit. If you're a publisher. If you're a developer, who doesn't get paid until the publisher recoups, you're fucked. Pure and simple. Why else do you think so many devs & publishers are in trouble, most gone out of business, bought out entirely etc?

PC game piracy is a serious problem and it - not DRM - is the single factor that is going to KILL PC gaming. The end result is that all the good games are going to be on the consoles. While the PC ports (assuming they even get done) are relegated to residual income status; much like DVD movie sales and rentals.

Fucking pirates.


This comment was edited on Oct 9, 2008, 09:53.