On Sins Sales

Gamasutra quotes Stardock's Brad Wardell saying that the success of Sins of a Solar Empire is in part based on design decisions by developer Ironclad Games that lead to low system requirements, saying the game will look great running on a four year-old video card. As to that success, he says the game has sold about a half-million copies, about 400,000 boxed copies and another 100,000 via digital distribution. Those numbers are more than sufficient to make the game a roaring success, as it cost less than one million dollars to produce.
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34.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 6, 2008, 20:11
34.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 6, 2008, 20:11
Sep 6, 2008, 20:11
 
The team that's making it isn't exactly known for their complex and layered games.

The team that's making it is brand new and isn't known for making anything... because they haven't.

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33.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 6, 2008, 12:54
33.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 6, 2008, 12:54
Sep 6, 2008, 12:54
 
I haven't been terribly impressed by what little they've shown so far with regards to Demi-God. We'll see if that changes closer to launch.

It doesn't look very good to me either, but at least they're publishing different devs' games. I hope Stardock/Impulse starts doing more and more publishing, as I find them >>>>>>>>>>>>> Steam.

We spent a good portion of the thread talking about DX3

I tend not to read the whole comments section before I reply.

I suspect DX3 will be targeted mainly at consoles like the second one though I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

You're not. It will be even more dumbed down than Ex Deus : IW. The team that's making it isn't exactly known for their complex and layered games.

Still, it's Deus Ex. (or at least, I hope it is.)
I love that universe.

Creston

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32.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 6, 2008, 00:02
32.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 6, 2008, 00:02
Sep 6, 2008, 00:02
 
Demigod... not sure how to explain it but its like a RTS with RPG elements. Its fast paced, quick game play type game. Something you can jump into and be done with a game within 30min quiet easily. Just the games I've been playing mind you its only AI currently but can't wait to try it against actual people.

31.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 21:10
31.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 21:10
Sep 5, 2008, 21:10
 
The thing with Demi-God is that they keep saying how it's so much like DotA but nothing I've seen even remotely looks like DotA. I can't even figure out how the gameplay is supposed to work based on what they've said and the video they released. It seems like a confusing mess. I'm not going to go buy the game *just* because Stardock publishes it, it has be you know, good too.


This comment was edited on Sep 5, 21:28.
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30.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 20:38
30.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 20:38
Sep 5, 2008, 20:38
 
aye. I watched a video of Demi-God yesterday. Looked lame, and boring.

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29.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 20:23
29.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 20:23
Sep 5, 2008, 20:23
 
They will publish Demi-God soon. (I think it comes out this year.)

I haven't been terribly impressed by what little they've shown so far with regards to Demi-God. We'll see if that changes closer to launch.

You're aware they're making Deus Ex 3 right? Without Spector (booo!) or Smith (Thank God) but they're still making it.

We spent a good portion of the thread talking about DX3 When I said a new Deus Ex, I meant a game truly like the original with sprawling cityscapes, loads of quests and the ability to play it in different ways. I suspect DX3 will be targeted mainly at consoles like the second one though I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

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28.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 20:10
28.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 20:10
Sep 5, 2008, 20:10
 
Hopefully they can publish some games in other genre's soon.

They will publish Demi-God soon. (I think it comes out this year.)

Sadly I don't think we'll ever see another Deus Ex

You're aware they're making Deus Ex 3 right? Without Spector (booo!) or Smith (Thank God) but they're still making it.

Creston

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27.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 20:06
27.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 20:06
Sep 5, 2008, 20:06
 
'll celebrate this with a epic 4v4 game over 70+planets.

We'll see you sometime in October again, then!

Creston

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26.
 
Bravo Stardock / Ironclad!
Sep 5, 2008, 20:05
26.
Bravo Stardock / Ironclad! Sep 5, 2008, 20:05
Sep 5, 2008, 20:05
 
Fuck Cevat Yerli.

Creston


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25.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 19:49
Enahs
 
25.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 19:49
Sep 5, 2008, 19:49
 Enahs
 
Speaking of. If you have previously bought something through StarDock, you might have gotten an e-mail recently asking to take a survey. If you take the survey, you get a 20% off coupon. So if you bought GalCivII and not Sins, well now you can get 20% off, or the other way around, etc.


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24.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 18:43
24.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 18:43
Sep 5, 2008, 18:43
 
Anyways enough of this threadjack, we can lament Deus Ex more when number 3 comes out
Ouch. True though

Anyway, I'm just glad to see that Sins has done so well. Stardock and Ironclad really deserve the success. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do next

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Avatar 9540
23.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 18:37
23.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 18:37
Sep 5, 2008, 18:37
 
Maybe but the RoI on something like Sins isn't high enough to sustain a company to make games like GTAIV in the first place. They'd need outside financing from a bank or something. Sins wasn't my thing personally but I can see the niche it fills, that's fair enough. I think that to do more mass market titles they will have to substantially increase their budgets and I doubt they have the ability to do so in any meaningful timeframe unfortunately.

Niche titles are all fine and good but there are a ton of great mass market titles out there I wouldn't want to see disappear by the industry moving towards smaller staffs and smaller budgets.

Avatar 51617
22.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 18:14
DG
22.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 18:14
Sep 5, 2008, 18:14
DG
 
hmm that's 1 sale per ~$2 of cost.

Yesterday's GTA IV figures* suggest "over" 10m unit sales and Dan Houser guesstimated at $100m cost. Take away the $50m MS paid for the DLC rights and assume the cost of the DLC equals the sales - 1 sale for ~$5 cost?

Those figures gave Sins an extra 3.5 months of selling, though IIRC there was significant delay to other regions. We don't know how much revenue either co is getting per unit sale either.

Lots of substantial assumptions/guesswork, but it looks plausable PC Sins has a significantly better return on investment than GTA IV on both consoles.

* http://ir.take2games.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=332433

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21.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 17:57
21.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 17:57
Sep 5, 2008, 17:57
 
After some searching, it looks like PC Data put the US big store only sales at nearly 100K in 2001

It was around 150k in year one total, I can't remember the exact figure but I did read the thread from the devs on ArsTechnica about the game's post-mortem and the company's demise. They never said what the game's budget was but I got the impression it was pretty big.

Anyways I agree, it could've done MUCH better if it had been promoted correctly. A lot of people on these boards seem to be under the illusion a developer just needs to put together a "good game" and everything else will come together. That's not the way reality works unfortunately and Deus Ex is the perfect example of the other cogs in the machine that are needed - publisher support, advertising and so on. Considered widely to be one of the best games of all time on any platform and it did quite poorly.

Anyways enough of this threadjack, we can lament Deus Ex more when number 3 comes out

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20.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 17:42
20.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 17:42
Sep 5, 2008, 17:42
 
After some searching, it looks like PC Data put the US big store only sales at nearly 100K in 2001, so if you factor in the small stores and the rest of the world, it could well be twice that figure just for 2001. Sources that I can no longer find put the total at around 500K lifetime sales. Not exactly an unprofitable release, and one that could have done a LOT better had it been promoted better.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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19.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 17:38
J
19.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 17:38
Sep 5, 2008, 17:38
J
 
Apologies from author, I just have to remark that I think 'Deus Ex 2' is more of a console port than a sequel. I'm hoping Fallout 3 will be the opposite but I'm not getting my hopes up.

The PC needs a boost and frankly I have given up on the big companies and hope one of the smaller fish will come out with something to bring life back into this enfeebled market.

I respect what Stardock have done (I have GalCiv2 on my other computer) and I'm only too happy to support good games. Heck, I ended up buying some games more than once over the years (such as Deus Ex) and I don't regret it at all. The problem is all the rubbish which is flung out and expected to be lapped up - we vote with our feet by not buying it and they blame pirates for poor sales.

Whenever a good game gets the reception it deserves I'll be amongst the first to cheer it. The good guys need the support and they need to keep out of the trap others have fallen into - pumping out the same thing over and over with a few differences and/or more generic gameplay.

If you're going to dumb it down at least have an option to make it harder (proper) too. I like the difficulty levels on GalCiv2 as they ramp up nicely and I can play it casually or really get my teeth into it. This is good, and I hope they used something like that in Sins.

I also hope I managed to steer this thread back towards the original topic somewhat. Counter-threadjack!

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18.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 15:36
18.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 15:36
Sep 5, 2008, 15:36
 
Yeah it won a huge amount of awards but unfortunately awards don't translate into financial success. Deus Ex is one of the games that prove the old "make games good and they will sell" totally wrong. It had a really poor marketing campaign which I think did a lot of harm. Deus Ex was both complex yet accessible at the same time, it's a damned shame when a game like it fails because those are exactly the types of games I'd love to see more of.

This comment was edited on Sep 5, 15:37.
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17.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 15:12
17.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 15:12
Sep 5, 2008, 15:12
 
Didn't Deus Ex win multiple Game of the Year awards when it came out?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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16.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 15:09
16.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 15:09
Sep 5, 2008, 15:09
 
? Deus Ex 3 is in development and DX1 didn't do terribly. It sold well enough to warrant a console port and a sequel.

Deus Ex sold well if you consider the scope of the past 10 years but in the first year it was largely considered a financial failure, less than 150,000 copies sold if my memory serves correctly. I don't have much faith for DX3 after playing DX2, especially considering how closed off console ports usually are in terms of exploration and content like sidequests. Maybe it'll surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.

This comment was edited on Sep 5, 15:10.
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15.
 
Re: 500,000 copies
Sep 5, 2008, 15:03
DG
15.
Re: 500,000 copies Sep 5, 2008, 15:03
Sep 5, 2008, 15:03
DG
 
What I'd really like to know is how much profit they make per distribution type. I'm sure they're making more on the digital copies, but how much more?
I'm going to hazard a guess that between manufacturing, distribution and retail there's about 60%, with the remainder going to publisher & dev.

Online, I suspect XBLA also take 50% normally. Steam probably takes a pretty big chunk too, but even more negotiable. Others maybe 20-30%? (bear in mind that 20-30%, includes card processing charges, which I think are fairly large for fraud-prone "customer not present" transactions).

Obviously, the above is a load of shit since it's been pulled out of my ass, but anyway that's my guess.

This comment was edited on Sep 5, 15:03.
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