kxmode, next get get a white board and marker... it's easier when they have pictures to look at

AWEsome. Been programming all day. I need to do some art!


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http://www.gamemusicjukebox.com/
Game p/reviewer for http://www.gameindustry.com/
This comment was edited on Sep 2, 21:00.

Normally I'd understand being sick of the "when it's done" mantra, but seriously, if you approach games as closer to art than to something procedural like construction, then it becomes almost necessary.

EA and the ilk approach games procedurally. Blizzard doesn't.

Show me the procedure to optimize a graphics engine for hardware that isn't even necessarily out yet, and I'll give you a time table.

Show me the procedural for a gaggle of artists to create production line artwork, and I'll show you a time table you can rely on.

Show me a mathematical formula to balance a game perfectly and I'll sure as hell give you a time table.

As someone else has said. If you don't want to wait, play a game that isn't as tight or highly polished. I for one am not paying attention to any of the hype, even though I am immensely looking forward to D3 and SC2. The wait is easier that way.

This all makes sense. As I said, I kind of straddle the fence. But c'mon - when you've been designing games as long as Blizzard, wouldn't you get a feel for how long things like graphic optimization, art creation, and game balance should take, even if only very roughly?

I do understand Blizzard's position here - they have everything to lose and nothing to gain by rushing things. It's just that the prospect of waiting 12 years between releases of such an awesome franchise is a little frustrating!

kxmode, next get get a white board and marker... it's easier when they have pictures to look at

strategy games suck

other way around.

Suck games strategy?

nwf wrote:

who cares

strategy games suck

Other way around means "you suck at strategy games." Did I really need to explain that?


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http://www.gamemusicjukebox.com/
Game p/reviewer for http://www.gameindustry.com/

Normally I'd understand being sick of the "when it's done" mantra, but seriously, if you approach games as closer to art than to something procedural like construction, then it becomes almost necessary.

EA and the ilk approach games procedurally. Blizzard doesn't.

Show me the procedure to optimize a graphics engine for hardware that isn't even necessarily out yet, and I'll give you a time table.

Show me the procedural for a gaggle of artists to create production line artwork, and I'll show you a time table you can rely on.

Show me a mathematical formula to balance a game perfectly and I'll sure as hell give you a time table.

As someone else has said. If you don't want to wait, play a game that isn't as tight or highly polished. I for one am not paying attention to any of the hype, even though I am immensely looking forward to D3 and SC2. The wait is easier that way.

Even in the movies, which can set release dates years in advance and sometimes hit them, a film can spend years in pre-production while the artists do their thing, not to mention quite a while in post. Even the most procedural part of the film making process, the actual production of the movie, can end up lagging behind (the first Star Wars is a perfect example of this) and cause delays. Usually we find out about an upcoming movie months, sometimes even years before a release date is named and the movie has been in production for quite a while. Even then, often that date is fudged around a bit before the posters with the final release date are put up.

I can see it from both sides. On the one hand, I feel that if Blizzard needs 5 years to make a fantastic game, then let 'em have it. Their track record speaks for itself; they have yet to release a dud.

On the other hand, it sucks that we had to wait ten years for an announcement of Starcraft 2, only to find out that there was at the minimum 2 more years to wait.

The games business is one of few businesses where "When it's done" is a viable response to the age old question of "When is it going to be finished?" I'd love to see the look on my boss's face when he asks me how much longer for the construction work on my company's latest project and I tell him, "I'll be done when I'm done." Truthfully, I'm a bit tired of the "when it's done" mantra. You mean to tell me your design doc is so ambiguous that you can't even nail it down within a year?

Anyway, we'll get the game sooner or later (my money's on later), and it will rock.

Exactly, not to mention they need to get the hype machine rolling....

Think about how much it must suck from the other end... You are a programmer or artist at Blizzard. You have been working on a game for 3 years now, but the game hasn't been announced. So for three years you haven't been able to tell anyone what you are working on. That has to really suck...

Blizzard's in a no win situation.

Exactly, so why annoy people? I'm not criticising the quality of their games, just that I don't like having to wait a huge amount of time to play them.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

I don't understand Blizzard - they keep games they're working on ultra quiet, then release videos showing what look like complete games and tell us we have to wait over 2yrs. Why don't they just keep them quiet for another year so people don't have as long to wait?

I'd imagine that they have to keep investors happy and such.

Perception equals reality. If your boss thinks you're slacking off and coming in late then it won't matter if it's not true. You're pretty much S.O.L.

If the public thinks you're only working on WoW then that's all that matters. Investors will think you're becoming stagnant, your price will go down, and you'll have a harder time getting backing. At some point you want to say "Hey, I'm working on this."

Unfortunately I've seen the P == R thing in real-life too often going both ways. One person I know got labeled as coming in late all of the time because of a span of 2 weeks where he had some family stuff going on so would come in 15 minutes late. Meanwhile 99.999% of the time before-and-after he would come in early and leave late.

Likewise someone else would get praise for always coming in early when in fact he was working his exactly requested hours.

To all the "whiners": One of the reasons Blizzard games
"shine" so bright, is because they take so long to finish their games.

So if you are tired of Blizzard, go play an EA game that takes a codemonkey team of 250 people with a budget of 30 mil. $$$ 6-10 months to build....

Then let me lick your sweet tears of agony, you crying babies...

This comment was edited on Sep 2, 10:14.

Personally Im sick of Blizzard and their announcing a game 2 and a half years before its even comng out. Its pretty rediculas how they string everyone along for that amount of time. Id rather they jsut shut the fricking hell up about their gameuntil its ready to be released. then theirs no whens it coming out how much longer. 2009 is a long way off, and an open ended date. that could mean November, at least another 15 months. ive seen many other games get xcompleted in far less time. What bothers me about Blizzard is the fact they got the money to hire a hugh team to get the job done even faster. so why are they milking the time so badly?

Blizzard's in a no win situation. If they keep things under wraps, they get bitched at for not doing anything new, and people want to know what they're up.

Then, when they announce what they're working on, and allow interviews, they get bitched at for not shiping sooner, and how they should keep it under wraps longer.




------------------------------------------------
http://theslip.nin.com/
"The Bellic boys! Taking over your town, assholes!"

I don't understand Blizzard - they keep games they're working on ultra quiet, then release videos showing what look like complete games and tell us we have to wait over 2yrs. Why don't they just keep them quiet for another year so people don't have as long to wait?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

Personally Im sick of Blizzard and their announcing a game 2 and a half years before its even comng out. Its pretty rediculas how they string everyone along for that amount of time. Id rather they jsut shut the fricking hell up about their gameuntil its ready to be released. then theirs no whens it coming out how much longer. 2009 is a long way off, and an open ended date. that could mean November, at least another 15 months. ive seen many other games get xcompleted in far less time. What bothers me about Blizzard is the fact they got the money to hire a hugh team to get the job done even faster. so why are they milking the time so badly?

Late 2009 would be about right for SC2. That would be roughly 2.5 years after the official announcement of the game. Which is also why you should not expect D3 before the end of 2010.

Meanwhile a Gamestop (or maybe EBGames) at a local mall was trying to get me to pre-order Star Craft II. It started because I happened to look at an old/damaged box of WarCraft III and was shocked to see it on their shelves on so many levels (it was a PC game, it was an old PC game, it was damaged, and it was not clearance).

They were pushing the hard sell too, like I was looking at used cars or something. You'd think after I said "no thanks" they would take the hint.

When they kept pushing hard I walked out, and I don't visit that particular store anymore.

WOW, I was really expecting this game to come out around Christmas 08.

Are you serious?

I would have shocked if it made 2008, and wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't make 2009.

Hell, I'll be a little surprised if the WOW expansion makes xmas 08...



------------------------------------------------
http://theslip.nin.com/
"The Bellic boys! Taking over your town, assholes!"

As I have said before I believe that SCII will be released Q2 09 and Diablo 3 Q2 10 and after that first SCII expansion around holiday 10 and D3 expansion holiday 11.

In the meantime we will probably find out about that other mmo Blizzard is working and some new thing about the Warcraft series and maybe another wow expansion as well.

So Blizzard is busy

Starcraft in Christmass 2009? Optimistic, very optimistic. The game is still in Alpha, and the dev team is still changing units on a day to day basis.

Although Im pretty sure we will see Diablo3 by the same date. Dont know why, maybe because of the last interview with Jay Wilson where he states that the game is coming along at a great pace, act 1 is finished and the team is busy building the rest of the game + most of the character classes are pretty much done. But then again Blizzard + release dates is not something worth betting on...

strategy games suck

other way around.

Suck games strategy?