what non-fossil fuel product are you taking the plastic from?

Carbon Dioxide. It has been known since the 50's that you can polymerize CO2 with various aliphatic epoxides. The problem is it occurs and VERY high pressure and temperature (thus energy demanding) and the products are not well controlled (you get a big mixture of various polymers). By designing an appropriate catalyst it should be possible to not only reduce the temperature and pressure required, but control the end product for desired material properties.

Yes you do need epoxides, but the bulk of the carbon will come for the CO2, a natural resource.

Biodegradable or easily recyclable plastics for storage have already been made this way (research level quantities only); it is just currently more costly to make it that way due to the inefficiencies of the processes then just about anything else you can imagine.

NASA has already expressed interest in funding the project, as being able to make plastics on long missions or easily recycle plastics and turn them into other parts is a huge advantage for long missions.

i would think that the acid is not exactly environmentally friendly either.

Ehh, typical acids are easily converted to mostly water. The counter ion the acid is the real danger, but they are not that hard to deal with, and you can usually make other lucrative products with those counter ions. They (the acids) are also good for more then one usage typically, and can be cleaned.

Not that I am saying paper recycling plants do that, I got no clue. Some might. Others probably just dump the excess waste chemical in the ground...




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This comment was edited on Aug 31, 23:20.

Thus not clear-cutting. But yes, OMG, some trees do get cut down for lumber!!!

I think we have different definitions of "clearcutting". I'm a geography major, you're a chemist, so I guess that's not too surprising.

And judging by the quality of some of the software, I'm feeling somewhat good about that choice

maybe you can design your own work flow management software. creo is not exactly keeping up with the demands of the industry. they dont have a product solution that can be used company wide. different departments like pre-media, manufacturing, planning, scheduling, sales and costing use different softwares that are not compatible with each other. information is entered into the system multiple times which increases the chance of human error and a ton of labor. but our biggest problem is their insite product which has an arcane web interface that is not user friendly. graphic designers and art directors used to having an intuitive interface are totally lost on insite.

Enahs:
I wish you luck, both in the process and becoming filthy rich. You'd deserve to be if you did that

even worse than i thought. pre-press and production has become overly automated. clients now expect large companies to have online services for uploading and approval of press ready files. soft proofing is now the norm. no need for production anymore. pre-press can be done by a single person instead of a dozen which was the norm a few years back.

We've been learning how to work/implement such systems. It's vastly different than it was a few years ago, so much so that they're thinking of changing the name again.

I've also been doing a lot of work relating to VDP, which is still relatively young.

Of course there are going to be companies that outsource it, but I'm more on the creative & IT side of things rather than the mechnical (both literally physical machines, and figuratively, preparing files for output) And judging by the quality of some of the software, I'm feeling somewhat good about that choice (even though I haven't a clue what I'm going to do when I graduate, heh)

It depends on what you mean by recycling.

What I mentioned in my original post: the benefits of recycling paper may not outweigh the environmental harm that paper recycling could do. Like what zirik mentioned in #36. Recycling especially scrap metal is very important, but I don't see any compelling reason that I should ever recycle paper, and seems to me like a feel-good thing that people do.

this packaging thing is really a drop in the bucket when it comes to "environmental issues"... but every little bit helps

sooner than later we are going to have to take repair rather than preventative measures - thats going to be the rough stuff

Paper is able to be broken down and turned into paper again.

dont they use strong acid to break down paper fiber and separate it from the glue that binds the material together? they also use some type of bleach to remove any artificial coloring/ink. i would think that the acid is not exactly environmentally friendly either.

But again the project I am working on would also create biodegradable plastics from non-fossil fuel sources.

now that would be an interesting product. but one question. isnt plastic a waste product of refining oil? what non-fossil fuel product are you taking the plastic from?

But I like having discs.

Me too. And a printed manual is nice. I don't care if it is in paper or plastic, or the form factor.

I would rather have a factory-pressed disk than a "burn it yourself" version.

We have a good recycling program where we live, and we throw about 4x as much into the recycling bin as we do the garbage can. And paper packaging is probably more environmentally friendly if you are recylcing....

But I like having discs.

What about recycling though?

It depends on what you mean by recycling.

Paper is able to be broken down and turned into paper again.
The plastic in the typical grocery bag can not be recycled like the typical cola bottle, but you can use the plastics as filler for other products such as construction material.


But again the project I am working on would also create biodegradable plastics from non-fossil fuel sources. Yes it is a very grandiose idea (and it is not just an idea, I have actually spent $50,000 on materials, it is based on a real scientific principle), but I have high hopes from it and hopefully will be filthy rich!



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This comment was edited on Aug 31, 10:39.

Oh really? So, what do you guess they are building out here?

http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.603048,-122.972717&spn=0.201005,0.541077&t=h&z=11

Nice zoom scale. Scale in a little and you will also see there are still tons of trees in those cut area. You can also see from those patches that they are not taking from everywhere at once. In 5-8 years time from that same zoom level you would not know there was ever a tree cut there. But in that time there will be other areas cut and other patches.

But when you zoom in you will see it is not being clear cut... Or only small section at once. As that entire screen you see at your zoom level is most likely owned by lumber companies, and they have not cut it all down. Thus not clear-cutting. But yes, OMG, some trees do get cut down for lumber!!!



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This comment was edited on Aug 31, 10:32.

Charlie_Six:
I mentioned my evidence, that nothing biodegrades in the landfill, thus its volume thats more important if its going into landfill (plastic bags are less volume, i.e. can fit into smaller space) rather than biodegradability.
You should have been able to google from the info I gave.
But since not...
Google up Garbage Project (1973-2000 University of Arizona excavated over a dozen landfills). There's other stuff you can google I'm sure, I've seen shows on this on things like PBS channels or discovery.
They've dug up NEWSPAPERS from 50 years ago that were READABLE! That means the paper did NOT biodegrade in landfill.
This project is one of the reasons reason why many communities have been pushing more and more for recycling, trying to intercept things before they hit the landfill since they DO NOT biodegrade in landfill.

Like I said, if you RECYCLE your bags, it doesn't matter, you can recycle both kinds of bags. But if you don't, then plastic is better for landfill because of volume reasons.
Even better, use reusable bags, like canvas bags. Then you don't impact the environment with the creation of the bags, or the energy used to recycle them.
The main problem with plastic is the oil used (its non-renewable resource).


If you want a link, here's one that came up when I googled:

New york times artcle:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE2DB1E3CF930A2575BC0A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Given all this, it means that wal-marts move is more a publicity stunt than anything else, for those who belive that paper is better for environment.

This comment was edited on Aug 31, 09:10.

BTW, don't you guys have firebreaks?

with the amount of rainfall they get? i dont think they need to worry about that.

Oh really? So, what do you guess they are building out here?

Looks like a good example of modern managed forestry to me.

Just scan around and the patches of different ages are evident. You can probably figure out how it works just from that, if not, it's more or less Coppicing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppice ) except instead of relying on regrowth from the stump, you replace with saplings from a nursery.

BTW, don't you guys have firebreaks?

This comment was edited on Aug 31, 07:23.

Oh really? So, what do you guess they are building out here?

a really large quilt?

Graphic Media is the exact major, which puts me in pretty much anything relating to pre-press and production itself. Outsourcing has not been a big issue in what I'm doing, and there's a lot of different places I can take this, including a lot of research-related roles.

even worse than i thought. pre-press and production has become overly automated. clients now expect large companies to have online services for uploading and approval of press ready files. soft proofing is now the norm. no need for production anymore. pre-press can be done by a single person instead of a dozen which was the norm a few years back.

the company i work for is slowly transitioning to web production. we partnered with a company based in india to convert press ready files into flash artwork for web publishing. our pre-media department is quickly shrinking. every month we have layoffs. i wish you well in your chosen field but its not too late to change.

print major huh? as in graphic design? unless you plan on competing against outsourced jobs from india and china, i suggest you prepare for another career. and i mean it... seriously.

Graphic Media is the exact major, which puts me in pretty much anything relating to pre-press and production itself. Outsourcing has not been a big issue in what I'm doing, and there's a lot of different places I can take this, including a lot of research-related roles.

Paper or plastic? How about neither? Digital distribution is the way forward. Now all we need is to produce energy in a sustainable and environmentally friendly way and we're sorted.

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Clear cutting only takes place for land-development.

Oh really? So, what do you guess they are building out here?

http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.603048,-122.972717&spn=0.201005,0.541077&t=h&z=11

IANA chemist, but I am a print major, did a big research paper on this.

print major huh? as in graphic design? unless you plan on competing against outsourced jobs from india and china, i suggest you prepare for another career. and i mean it... seriously.

This comment was edited on Aug 31, 04:18.