Gamer's Bill of Rights

As mentioned above, Edge Online has a story on a new "Gamer's Bill of Rights" proposed by Stardock and Gas Powered Games. Hear hear! And here goes:
We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

  1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
  2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
  3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
  4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
  5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.
  6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.
  7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
  8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
  9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
  10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.
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74 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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1.
 
No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 10:53
1.
No subject Aug 29, 2008, 10:53
Aug 29, 2008, 10:53
 
Sounds good to me. Now sign up the other publishers and get the industry back on track!

Avatar 51617
2.
 
No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 10:53
2.
No subject Aug 29, 2008, 10:53
Aug 29, 2008, 10:53
 
/signed!

I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
3.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 10:54
3.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 10:54
Aug 29, 2008, 10:54
 
I'm all for this, but come on let be realistic...

Avatar 12670
4.
 
No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 10:56
4.
No subject Aug 29, 2008, 10:56
Aug 29, 2008, 10:56
 
Let's put some common sense and reality into this:

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

-Because of piracy, no way to implement this, it would be such a mistake to allow this on any level.


2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

-Never happen. Never has happened, never will happen. Even games of the first couple generations had issues.


3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

-a right? pffft. NES games never had updates.


4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

-you don't own the game, you have a license to use it.


5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

-you have to be retarded to think this.


6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

-read the EULA, if you don't read it, then you don't know that you already agreed to this.


7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

-??? ummmm.....what?


8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

-You aren't. Anyone that feels this needs to chill.


9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

-You don't have to.


10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

-Not really an issue. Although annoying, big deal.

Whew. made it. Just sounds like a bunch of complaining to me. You have the FREEDOM to not play any game. Use your wallet and that FREEDOM to show developers you mean business. Publishing a list like this won't get that done.

Move along.

The cause of all these evils was the lust for power arising from greed and ambition; and from these passions proceeded the violence of parties once engaged in contention.
5.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:00
5.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:00
Aug 29, 2008, 11:00
 
Batman you do realise that game publishers actually proposed this...

I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
6.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:03
6.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:03
Aug 29, 2008, 11:03
 
InBlack until companies like EA, Ubisoft endorse this, it ain't happening.

Avatar 12670
7.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:03
7.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:03
Aug 29, 2008, 11:03
 
Batman you do realise that game publishers actually proposed this...

When Valve and EA sign off on it - it will matter.

edit: Damn Elf - see, great minds think alike.
er, actually, doesn't take a great mind, just some common sense (which eludes many here)

The cause of all these evils was the lust for power arising from greed and ambition; and from these passions proceeded the violence of parties once engaged in contention.
This comment was edited on Aug 29, 11:04.
8.
 
No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:04
8.
No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:04
Aug 29, 2008, 11:04
 
3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
Why should they? Aside from this ridiculous inclusion, sounds good.

Avatar 6580
9.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:07
9.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:07
Aug 29, 2008, 11:07
 
Eh, it is all marketing anyway.

Stardock? Especially Gas Powered Games?

They should probably fix their own houses before they mandate rules to the industry...

But like I said, this is more marketing fluff than anything realistic.
11. Games shall not be given sh*t games from GPG!
Waking up from the daydream,
Ray

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10.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:09
nin
10.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:09
Aug 29, 2008, 11:09
nin
 
Goddamn, Stardock, I love you. You had me at #8, I mean, "Hello".

edit:
They should probably fix their own houses before they mandate rules to the industry...

How does Stardock not already do all of those? I can't think of anything they need to fix.


------------------------------------------------
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"The Bellic boys! Taking over your town, assholes!"
This comment was edited on Aug 29, 11:11.
11.
 
Resell
Aug 29, 2008, 11:36
11.
Resell Aug 29, 2008, 11:36
Aug 29, 2008, 11:36
 
They missed one:

Gamers shall have the right to resell their used game.

Avatar 9616
12.
 
No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:37
12.
No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:37
Aug 29, 2008, 11:37
 
I hope you are taking notes, Mr. Unangst. Stardock is doing what you and the PCGA should be doing.

13.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:37
13.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:37
Aug 29, 2008, 11:37
 
*hugs Stardock*

Then again, they already do most of these things and have plans to implement the rest. If nothing else, it'll hopefully get a bit more notice and maybe wake up a few other publishers out there.

That reminds me, I need to fire up Impulse and check out the update.
14.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:50
14.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:50
Aug 29, 2008, 11:50
 
I'm all for this, but come on let be realistic...

Seconded.


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15.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 11:55
15.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 11:55
Aug 29, 2008, 11:55
 
When Valve and EA sign off on it - it will matter.
Actually it doesn't really matter if Valve and EA or Ubi sign off on it. Valve already does a pretty good job of meeting most of those, so it's conceivable that they might sign on. As for EA and Ubi, they can shove off to console land for all I care. At least 90% of the stuff they release for the PC is crap anyway. Let other companies step in and release quality titles that are up to the standards that we should expect. Let them make the sales on the PC platform instead of EA.

It especially pisses me off when EA and company whine about piracy and resales, but won't even commit to releasing games in a finished, non-buggy state, or providing realistic recommended hardware requirements, let alone any of the other things on the list. They've dug their own hole by screwing customers way too often.

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 11:56.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Avatar 9540
16.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 12:04
PHJF
 
16.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 12:04
Aug 29, 2008, 12:04
 PHJF
 
Why do you think have any gamers have any rights at all? You don't. I don't. If they, the publisher, want to do whatever they want, they can. Tough shit, that's capitalism; you don't want the product, for whatever reason, don't fucking buy it.

Nobody owes you a fucking thing. The only right a gamer has is to not buy a game.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
Avatar 17251
17.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 12:07
17.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 12:07
Aug 29, 2008, 12:07
 
As for EA and Ubi, they can shove off to console land for all I care. At least 90% of the stuff they release for the PC is crap anyway.

EA has finally started working on some original properties for a change, they've got a lot of interesting stuff in the pipeline but it remains to be seen whether they will ship it in a decent state and actually support it.

Ubisoft has really gone down the tubes in a lot of ways, no SDK's for any of their games anymore and half-baked yearly updates.

In terms of releasing games in a non-buggy state, that's really just asking too much, bugs are always going to happen. I'd rather they just do their best to ship things in a playable state and delay the release if they need more time to polish the game.

Both companies are DRM-happy unfortunately so I doubt they'll sign onto something like this.

I agree with Batman too, I don't think its fair to "demand" that a game has meaningful updates. Some games just aren't built for extra content, everything doesn't need an expansion pack or sequel.

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 12:08.
Avatar 51617
18.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 12:09
18.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 12:09
Aug 29, 2008, 12:09
 
Why do you think have any gamers have any rights at all? You don't. I don't. If they, the publisher, want to do whatever they want, they can. Tough shit, that's capitalism; you don't want the product, for whatever reason, don't fucking buy it.

Nobody owes you a fucking thing. The only right a gamer has is to not buy a game.
That's kind of the whole point here dude. We can vote with our wallets to support the companies that commit to treating their customers well, as outlined in this bill of rights. It's the rights as the developers see them. If we agree with those rights, then we can support those companies. It's that simple.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Avatar 9540
19.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 12:12
19.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 12:12
Aug 29, 2008, 12:12
 
I agree with Batman too, I don't think its fair to "demand" that a game has meaningful updates. Some games just aren't built for extra content, everything doesn't need an expansion pack or sequel.
Yeah, I agree that that one isn't really applicable to all games, and isn't necessary. Stardock tends to make a lot of additions and changes based on customer feedback after a game is released, which is fantastic and something that I wish more devs would do. But it may be a bit much to add it here. I think that companies do generate a lot of goodwill for themselves by being responsive to the feedback though, which is one reason Stardock is so successful.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Avatar 9540
20.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 12:14
K
20.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 12:14
Aug 29, 2008, 12:14
K
 
A different perspective...

No subject Aug 29, 10:56 xXBatmanXx


Let's put some common sense and reality into this:

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.

-Because of piracy, no way to implement this, it would be such a mistake to allow this on any level.

*Yeap, have to agree with you on this one.


2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

-Never happen. Never has happened, never will happen. Even games of the first couple generations had issues.

*What are you talking about? It's only because developers are up against artificial deadlines that we get games released before they are ready. Crysis was a fucking joke. It took me a week to play through to the last level, and then month of reinstalling and playing again just to get through the aircraft carrier level because every time I started the level I would fall through the geometry. I won't be buying Crysis Warhead because of this. It was months before they even acknowledged there was a problem. On the same note, EA released BF2 and BF 2142 in generally good condition, but refused to integrate widescreen support because it would give some players an advantage. Fuck you EA. They have the ability to release polished games, some put their shareholders before their customers.


3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.

-a right? pffft. NES games never had updates.

*Hrmmm, if we are talking about MMO's then yes, I can see where updates would be necessary. But a game that is released doesn't need any updates if it is released bug-free. Additional content shouldn't be expected for all games.


4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

-you don't own the game, you have a license to use it.

*Having a license to play the game doesn't mean that a download manager or updater has to be installed. The game itself is all that should be installed. Anything else including should have an option for opting out without hindering gameplay.


5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.

-you have to be retarded to think this.

*Again, this goes back to developers polishing the game. They can scale the models and textures so that they play on a wide range of machines. They have the ability to test the games out before they release them. It's up to the developer to list accurate requirements. Retardation has nothing to do with it...


6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.

-read the EULA, if you don't read it, then you don't know that you already agreed to this.

*How can you read the EULA before buying the game? What about when EULA's break the law like Sony's rootkit fiasco? What if you read the EULA and decide you don't want the game because of its wording...you are stuck with the game because the retailer won't take the game back.


7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

-??? ummmm.....what?

*Gamers already have this right...I have all my CD keys going back a decade. Some of the discs are unusable but if I get the urge to play any of those games again I can do so guilt-free because I hold a valid license. As far as online download services like Steam, I know that you can download whatever you own from at least Steam. I have no experience with any of the others, but this should be a no-brainer. If you buy it from an online service, you should be able to download it or make backups.


8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

-You aren't. Anyone that feels this needs to chill.

*Yes we are. If we weren't lumped into the criminal category then we would be able to return games at retail.

9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

-You don't have to.

*This has been proposed. Once installed it should be able to play. Also, you should be able to install it as many times as you want. Limiting the number of installations is plain stupid and frustrating.


10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

-Not really an issue. Although annoying, big deal.

*Huge issue for me. I hate having to scrounge around for my discs.

-Whew. made it. Just sounds like a bunch of complaining to me. You have the FREEDOM to not play any game. Use your wallet and that FREEDOM to show developers you mean business. Publishing a list like this won't get that done.

-Move along.

I agree, vote with your wallet.

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