Gamer's Bill of Rights

As mentioned above, Edge Online has a story on a new "Gamer's Bill of Rights" proposed by Stardock and Gas Powered Games. Hear hear! And here goes:
We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:

  1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
  2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
  3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
  4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
  5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.
  6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.
  7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
  8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
  9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
  10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.
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74.
 
Strickly in a professional sense...
Aug 31, 2008, 00:05
Kxmode
 
74.
Strickly in a professional sense... Aug 31, 2008, 00:05
Aug 31, 2008, 00:05
 Kxmode
 
I want to hump Stardock!

-----
http://www.gamemusicjukebox.com/
Game p/reviewer for http://www.gameindustry.com/
"Listen, Peter... with great horsepower comes... the sickest drifts..." - source
Avatar 18786
73.
 
Re: Signed 100%
Aug 30, 2008, 19:22
73.
Re: Signed 100% Aug 30, 2008, 19:22
Aug 30, 2008, 19:22
 
Already bought Sins Might buy SC if I end up having time to play it.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Avatar 9540
72.
 
Signed 100%
Aug 30, 2008, 16:42
72.
Signed 100% Aug 30, 2008, 16:42
Aug 30, 2008, 16:42
 
Now everyone go out and buy Sins of a Solar Empire and Supreme Commander to support em.
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Avatar 12928
71.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 30, 2008, 14:44
Prez
 
71.
Re: No subject Aug 30, 2008, 14:44
Aug 30, 2008, 14:44
 Prez
 
Chris Taylor is probably the industry's biggest hypocrite. He shipped a game THIS MONTH with DRM. His titles get the bare minimum patch support, some none at all.

Total Annihilation won me over. I also loved Supreme Commander and Forged Alliance - I play a match at least twice a week. I never got the complaints of SC and FA being unfinished, as I never had a single problem with either, but I suppose it's possible I was one of the lucky ones. If we are talking strictly design here, then that's subjective and thus it is perfectly reasonable that we don't agree on it.

As far as hypocritical, I don't think shipping a game with DRM makes him so - isn't it as much (if not more) the publisher's decision as to what kind of copy protection a title is released with? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the reason he teamed up with Stardock was to get a game published the way he wanted to by finding a new distribitution platform for Demigod.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
70.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 30, 2008, 13:48
70.
Re: No subject Aug 30, 2008, 13:48
Aug 30, 2008, 13:48
 
When Chris Taylor started making noise about GPG possibly becoming a majority console developer after Supreme Commander, I got nervous. Here was one of my favorite PC game developers talking about jumping ship. This seems like a 180 degree change, and I couldn't be more thrilled. Brad Wardell has quickly become one of my personally most respected people in gaming, right up there with Sid Meier, Will Wright, and Taylor himself. To see these 2 join up gives me hope for the future. I can't wait for Demigod now.

Chris Taylor is probably the industry's biggest hypocrite. He shipped a game THIS MONTH with DRM. His titles get the bare minimum patch support, some none at all.

I don't like Stardock games, they're just not very fun to me but I can respect what they stand for. Gas Powered Games is full of shit though, don't be deceived by their participation here. This is just a PR wankfest, it has no teeth and will change nothing.

So games may install drivers and potentially harmful software with consent? That doesn't sound very inviting.

Why not? As long as I can click no then sure, they can install their dumb stuff. It'd be a big improvement from "we're silently installing whatever we want in the background without your consent".


This comment was edited on Aug 30, 13:51.
Avatar 51617
69.
 
Re: No no no and no.
Aug 30, 2008, 13:14
69.
Re: No no no and no. Aug 30, 2008, 13:14
Aug 30, 2008, 13:14
 
I like how Gas Powered Games are a part of this, like they haven't completely and utterly dropped support for every title they've produced shortly after it's hit the shelf.

They've supported Forged Alliance? Really? Because every major bug from release is still in it.

Fucking Chris Taylor.

Creston

Avatar 15604
68.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 30, 2008, 10:26
68.
Re: No subject Aug 30, 2008, 10:26
Aug 30, 2008, 10:26
 
I agree, 8 isn't right, but I would suggest a subtle rewrite:

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as criminals by developers or publishers.

I am a potential criminal, but I'm not a criminal. Hell, I'm a potential rapist, but I'd be a tad pissed if they put me on a sex offenders list just in case. I could steal your software, but forcing me to ask permission every time I want to use it is unacceptable (and counter productive, but that's a whole other argument).

Quboid


Nicely done. I don't necessarily agree in entirety with your conclusion since #8 is so subjective and many people would take that to mean zero copy protection, no product activation and full return-privileges, but that is indeed the way it should be written.
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67.
 
No subject
Aug 30, 2008, 10:15
67.
No subject Aug 30, 2008, 10:15
Aug 30, 2008, 10:15
 
unless #3 means updates that allow you to run the game on newer OS (or maybe an older OS) Or updates like higher resolution graphics down the road or whatever.

otherwise, I'd agree with everyone else that not all games need extra content. If so, they'd probably just sell it as an expansion pack.

66.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 30, 2008, 05:45
Prez
 
66.
Re: No subject Aug 30, 2008, 05:45
Aug 30, 2008, 05:45
 Prez
 
When Chris Taylor started making noise about GPG possibly becoming a majority console developer after Supreme Commander, I got nervous. Here was one of my favorite PC game developers talking about jumping ship. This seems like a 180 degree change, and I couldn't be more thrilled. Brad Wardell has quickly become one of my personally most respected people in gaming, right up there with Sid Meier, Will Wright, and Taylor himself. To see these 2 join up gives me hope for the future. I can't wait for Demigod now.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
65.
 
No subject
Aug 30, 2008, 00:16
65.
No subject Aug 30, 2008, 00:16
Aug 30, 2008, 00:16
 
6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent

So games may install drivers and potentially harmful software with consent? That doesn't sound very inviting.
I don't expect big companies like EA to sign up for this, especially when they have to worry about shareholders barking at their necks for more DRM, but I can see small publishers going for it. If only for a bit of extra publicity.

64.
 
Re: Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around?
Aug 30, 2008, 00:15
64.
Re: Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around? Aug 30, 2008, 00:15
Aug 30, 2008, 00:15
 
Is there really a PC gamer that doesn't realize that anymore? We ALL know it, and we ALL keep fucking buying shit, knowing full well we support shitbags like EA (and many others) so they're not changing a goddamn thing.
I know several PC gamers that have no clue. Of course they were EQ players, and later on WoW players, so maybe they don't really count.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Avatar 9540
63.
 
Re: No no no and no.
Aug 29, 2008, 23:43
63.
Re: No no no and no. Aug 29, 2008, 23:43
Aug 29, 2008, 23:43
 
I like how Gas Powered Games are a part of this, like they haven't completely and utterly dropped support for every title they've produced shortly after it's hit the shelf.

Chris Taylor is a "do as I say, not as I do" type of guy.

62.
 
Re: No no no and no.
Aug 29, 2008, 21:33
62.
Re: No no no and no. Aug 29, 2008, 21:33
Aug 29, 2008, 21:33
 
50. No no no and no. Aug 29, 17:15 Jack9
Good thing I don't visit Stardock (because they are fuckwads) or GPG (they associate with fuckwads), ever.

--

Derek S, is that you?

61.
 
Hear Hear!
Aug 29, 2008, 21:31
61.
Hear Hear! Aug 29, 2008, 21:31
Aug 29, 2008, 21:31
 
At least some companies got it right!

Now go buy their games!

60.
 
Re: Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around?
Aug 29, 2008, 20:33
60.
Re: Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around? Aug 29, 2008, 20:33
Aug 29, 2008, 20:33
 
What do you mean, the "light of day"? Do you expect it to get passed by Congress or something?

No, I mean that the only way this is every going to become some form of default standard. I figured that would be obvious, but maybe not.

The point is to try and get gamers to wake up and realize they don't have to accept the crap that gets shoveled to them.

Is there really a PC gamer that doesn't realize that anymore? We ALL know it, and we ALL keep fucking buying shit, knowing full well we support shitbags like EA (and many others) so they're not changing a goddamn thing.

I try to help out guys like Stardock by buying all their games. (though I'm dubious about Demigod...)

I love how Stardock treats its customers. The rest of the gaming industry simply keeps on treating them as shit and trying to get away with more limiting crap (like the second hand games whining from EA).

Creston

Avatar 15604
59.
 
Re: Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around?
Aug 29, 2008, 19:56
59.
Re: Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around? Aug 29, 2008, 19:56
Aug 29, 2008, 19:56
 
Because the only way this Bill sees the light of day is if someone kills that cockfucker from EA.

What do you mean, the "light of day"? Do you expect it to get passed by Congress or something?

The point of having this "bill of rights" isn't to try and get publishers to follow it - as has been rightly pointed out, that's not likely to happen. The point is to try and get gamers to wake up and realize they don't have to accept the crap that gets shoveled to them. If gamers stood up for those rights, publishers would either have to deliver on them, or go out of business.

Obviously it's not likely gamers are going to all climb on board either, but raising awareness is a first step - which is what this story has accomplished. It deserves kudos for that, if for no other reason.

58.
 
Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around?
Aug 29, 2008, 19:50
58.
Is Lee Harvey Oswald still around? Aug 29, 2008, 19:50
Aug 29, 2008, 19:50
 
Because the only way this Bill sees the light of day is if someone kills that cockfucker from EA.

For starters.

I couldn't help but think of the "Passenger Bill of Rights" that now exists in the air travel industry, which has made exactly zero fucking percent difference. Airlines still treat you as shit. Bills of Rights don't quite seem as helpful as they used to.

Creston

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 20:33.
Avatar 15604
57.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 19:43
NKD
57.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 19:43
Aug 29, 2008, 19:43
NKD
 
With responses like these, its a wonder they haven't just released a press release that says "Screw PC gamers, you can play solitaire you whiny ingrates." and switched to console development.

Do you have a single fact to back that up?
Avatar 43041
56.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 19:38
56.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 19:38
Aug 29, 2008, 19:38
 
I think you missed the point; people are referring to WHEN they've already purchased a copy and the cd craps out, gets lost or whatever. They already own the game so ea does them a "favor" and lets them d/l the game for 10 bucks.

OH and don't spit out the garbage of it costs them server space/bandwidth/whatever. It's gouging at it's finest.

55.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 29, 2008, 17:43
55.
Re: No subject Aug 29, 2008, 17:43
Aug 29, 2008, 17:43
 
this hits the nail on the head. Buy a game from EA off their download service (at full blown retail price) and the pricks have the gall to want to charge you another $10 for the privilege of being able to download it more than once within a 3 year period. I bought Crysis this way and ended up having to download a second copy off of The Pirate Bay so I could have a back up copy.

See, I learn something new everyday - I wasn't aware the EA service did stuff like that - so now one of those points makes sense - but again, go get a copy yourself, that avoids that issue. There again, vote with your wallet.

The cause of all these evils was the lust for power arising from greed and ambition; and from these passions proceeded the violence of parties once engaged in contention.
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