That sounds striat off the back of a game box

Sorry, I think I got stuck in marketing mode.

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Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

Yeah, but with that theyarecomingforyou, you pay more at lunch date, risk more, and have to spend more (updated hardware); which to me is fine, but you can have great fun playing these games in a few years time aswell with a level of patches and cheap PC upgrades and have great fun aswell.

you get the latest, greatest thing - the most up-to-date graphics and gameplay

That sounds striat off the back of a game box It's a great line

Yeah it was awesome buying Conan and playing it with all those people and finding out with them that this game was not done and wasn't something you should have bought.

I wish I could do that every week!!!

There's no benefit at all in buying a game at release date.

Yeah. I mean it's not like you can play it and have loads of fun or anything... oh wait, of course you can. I bought Oblivion at launch and had a great time with it. I bought Bioshock at launch and had a great time with it. I bought HL2 at launch and had a great time with it. I bought The Orange Box at launch and had a great time with it. The advantage is that you get the latest, greatest thing - the most up-to-date graphics and gameplay. With online games you get to learn tactics at the same time as others and it's a shared experience.

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Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

exactly Prez -- that's what I've been doing for a few years now. There's no benefit at all in buying a game at release date.

I'll just wait until the install limit is patched out like it was for Bioshock before I buy it, assuming it gets good reviews. I have plenty of games to keep me busy until that time.

I agree. I'm usually months if not years behind when playing games. By the time I install them there's a version 3 no cd patch available, which I automatically install.

DRM is really irrelevant to me.

I'll just wait until the install limit is patched out like it was for Bioshock before I buy it, assuming it gets good reviews. I have plenty of games to keep me busy until that time.

America: Fake smiles, fake weapons of mass destuction reports, fake patriots. Bravo!

yeh america sucks but the rest of the world is paved with gold and unicorn fur

get over yourself

Does it really make any substantial difference to the game whether the other creatures you come across are pre-generated or shared online by someone else?

Why would you include a set of pre-generated creatures in this game? You're already requiring people use the internet to activate the game, why don't you just hold back the content that would make the game interesting and deliver it when they register? You don't register and you're playing the game alone, or only with creatures you've created.

This whole system is just ass backwards. If this wall all to stop piracy there are too many creative ways to limit the content in the game for people who are not legit owners of the game. But they choose this paranoid solution that assumes you've stolen it until you prove to their server that you are legit.

It's just pathetic.

I don't see why they needed to use this type of DRM since the game was going to be missing major features, other players creatures, if you can't connect online. I feel like the game could be very secure with only the online service portion of the game being available to registered legit users.

Nonsense. The game is fully featured offline but has additional extras when used online. Does it really make any substantial difference to the game whether the other creatures you come across are pre-generated or shared online by someone else? Of course it doesn't. They'd be absolutely foolish not to use some serious protection on a title like Spore, one that has the potential to outdo The Sims. That said, I'm really not a fan of limited activations - also, I worry about what will happen in 5-6yrs time to the activation servers, especially as Yahoo and Microsoft are closing down their DRM servers after only a couple of years.

Give me the game over Steam any day.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

What is the game though?

Spore is Will Wright peeing on you :

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/05/27/

Funny, but a 3 install limit seems to be fairly punishing to me.

(and there is plenty of debate on Mass Effect whether that "three different computers" thing is really 3 different computers.)

Fuck Spore.

Creston

Just for Ray

America: Fake smiles, fake weapons of mass destuction reports, fake patriots. Bravo!

No demo- no purchase.

I guess they don't need me as a customer.

Forcing customers to go online and transmit who knows what data about themselves is obnoxious enough to make me not buy a title anyway.

EA just gets worse every single day.

"You need to authenticate once at the first install. This happens online. You can install on three separate computers and you do need to register for the online features."

The game is already built to be played online...right? From what I remember the online portion of the game sounded like a really cool feature that would make the game a lot more interesting.

I don't see why they needed to use this type of DRM since the game was going to be missing major features, other players creatures, if you can't connect online. I feel like the game could be very secure with only the online service portion of the game being available to registered legit users.

This solution just feels disrespectful to legit users. No thanx. $49.99 on Ebgames, I assume the is the price everywhere.

and no, I'm not going to pirate it as I'm perfectly happy to go without.

I'm onboard with this statement. I feel like pirates do developers a favor by pirating a game vs just skipping it and moving on. I know I do plenty of research on how people feel about games in messages boards and places like this and a game that has no comments is an easy pass vs one that everyone is talking about. the more word of mouth a game has, from legit users or pirates users, the more it will sell. So I prefer not to have anything to do with games and companies that do stuff like this.

No way to try the game before you buy is a disgrace today. If anything we should be moving to a system that lets you try the full game for a limited time via some secure online system. Or just releasing the first stages of the game.

Bioshocks demo was brilliant. The entire first level was essentially free. No one behind the scenes was worried that this content would be given away free, they were open and wanted gamers to see what they had to offer. This style demo is perfect. I loved it when they showed the first 10 or 15 min of Dark Knight as a preview before I am legend. I was sold as soon as I saw that. Where do I put my $15.

Not making any effort to show the community what your game is tells me everything I need to know. Pass. No pirate, no pay, no word of mouth. Just the same disrespect and disdain you show to me.

And I was interested in this game, I would have tried the demo and possibly purchased. You are not entitled to any money from me before you show me your product in a way I can evaluate it myself.
This comment was edited on Aug 16, 15:10.

Makes sense. Demos are rare these days, but more to the point, how would you create a demo of this game? Personally I think the Creature Creator was the perfect application of this imo.

Edit: The industry isn't getting rid of any demos. The online networks still sport tonnes of demos for various titles and that's a complete throwback to the days of BBSes (whoops, aging myself here, aren't I?)

Point is that even this game offered a demo and insofar as DRM goes... man... whatever. There's too many groups who make a hobby of cracking what everybody locks.
It's just a matter of getting in their wake


This comment was edited on Aug 16, 14:46.

But what is a movie? Something you watch, right? What is a trailer? Something you watch - it's a small chunk of the final product. And as I mentioned, more and more movies are handing out more things for the consume to consume - the first five or ten minutes of the movie, numerous trailers, etc.

Again, I have to stress why games are so great (though the market doesn't always realize it.) You see it, you hear it, but you play it. Without a demo, how do I get a sense of how the game plays or performs? Just seeing a pretty picture isn't enough and "official" reviews are easily swayed.

Additionally, why are we moving backward in the industry? Gaming was born via demos, via shareware, but now the industry is getting rid of them?

I still don't support this conduct, but if somebody is hellbent on playing a demo of a game on their system, the only option is to pirate?

I don't mind the DRM if it is not terribly intrusive - it's a reaction to pirating and I want companies to make money for making great products. However, this new trend of not releasing demos (or demos for consoles, but not for PCs) is stupid. And yes, the companies are free to not release a demo, but I will be working against that more and more by not making purchases.

If a game is great, I don't think a demo hurts it - it enforces the praise the game receives and it's an easy selling tool to those that are unsure or whom may have never considered it.

Even if a game is average or mediocre, I believe it makes sense to release a demo. In that case, I can personally play the title for myself and see if it interests me, if I can see past its quirks/shortcomings, etc. If the game is too bad or just not to my liking, I save myself a purchase I would later regret. That's a lost sale, right? Except, in my case, I would appreciate that developer and publisher more. It was not my thing, but they let people try it, and I saved a bad purchase. For me, it's much better than just taking a complete leap of faith and then being burned. Is the game company going to refund my purchase? Will the retailer let me return my game, particularly a PC title? Most likely not, in which case I got burnt. At that point, I will be more hesitant to buy from that developer/publisher again.

If the game is total crap, yes, a demo will hurt its sales - as it should. Again, I would point out the merit of people being able to avoid a "bad" purchase. Further, if a game is crap, the game is crap - that's the issue of the programming/design/control/whatever. The game isn't crap because it had a demo...

Pirates are *ssh*les, as far as I' concerned. I will concede some DRM to publishers/developers to fight this and to protect their products. However, I think there is huge merit in releasing demonstrations and I think it is incredibly poor that the industry is moving away from those. If I like how a game plays and I agree with its price, I will purchase it. But a lot of the crap happening in the markets is making me vote with my wallet to not purchase more and more games. And this will apparently be a shocking revelation to the gaming industry, but I am not a pirate.
I am a rambling, self-righteous, pompous ass, though.
Shrugging,
Ray

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China: Fake fireworks, fake singers, fake sixteen year olds. Bravo!
http://www.flagshipped.com/
I love you, mom.

The irony is that I'm more inclined to pirate a DRM-infested game that limits my legitimate usage. Why spend real money on something with effectively more limited features than what the inevitable pirate release will have?

So basically your position is "give me exactly what I want or I'll steal it"? You're exactly the sort of person DRM is aimed at. If you don't agree with the decisions relating to a game then don't buy it.

@Ray - I don't see the lack of demos being much different to movies being released in the cinema... you have trailers to see give you an idea as to the direction but ultimately you don't know what you're getting. I went to see the new X-Files movie recently - I'm a huge fan and have watched every single episode and the previous movie yet it still turned out to be crap. There's always an element of risk in a purchase but games without demos aren't any worse than many other decisions.

At the end of the day a demo is used to advertise a product. If that money could be better spent elsewhere I don't fault a publisher for doing so. Oblivion didn't need a demo and I absolutely loved it. That said, I reserve the right to not buy games that are lacking a demo and vote with my wallet.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

and no, I'm not going to pirate it as I'm perfectly happy to go without.

I agree. To pirate the game gives the publishers an excuse to use the next round of PITA DRM.

I want to make it clear I'm voting with my wallet, and they're not getting a goddamn thing...



------------------------------------------------
http://theslip.nin.com/
"The Bellic boys! Taking over your town, assholes!"

This is a core failing in the gaming industry.

Music artists have videos, radio, and distributed singles to promote the actual work. Movies do rely heavily on reviews, but they still have trailers of the actual work and are increasingly giving viewers little chunks of the movie to watch. Same with books; there are reviews, but you can easily read a full chapter or some passages from the book not to mention the ability to try it out in a book store prior to purchasing it.

And in all those cases, you're generally talking about things in the $7.50 to $30.00 range (in general.)

On top of all that, those are all simple media forms - you read them, see them, or hear them. Games are completely different. Yes, there are visual and audio aspects, but what makes games so fun/challenging/unique is the player interaction. As a player, you decide the pace, you move the character, you pick which route to go, you decide which enemy to tackle first, you solve the puzzle in your head, you make the decision to be good or bad, you determine what your character will look like, you decide which gear to take or use, etc.

People play games - they don't just sit there watching it or listening to it. To not release some type of demo, to not let somebody see how the game plays is simply, utterly, completely moronic.

If a developer doesn't give a sh*t about that, then what is the point? We may as well stop making all games and just re-release Pong over and over, just with hyper-realistic CG movies between levels. If all that matters is hype and graphics, why not?

Or, as I argue, maybe game developers and publishers should give a damn about how their game plays and give the end user the chance to play the product and determine that for themselves. As I previously said, if developers and publishers refuse this, the only way for a gamer to demo the game is by pirating it.
Why is there so much hatred for the end user these days?
Thinking it's a sad day when somebody like Wright doesn't comprehend this,
Ray

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China: Fake fireworks, fake singers, fake sixteen year olds. Bravo!
http://www.flagshipped.com/
s{I love you, mom.
This comment was edited on Aug 16, 10:34.