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19.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 11:06
F7
19.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 11:06
Apr 8, 2008, 11:06
F7
 
Great post zirik and right on the mark.

Ask blacks what their biggest pet peeve is and I'd put money on them saying, 'Being constantly reminded that I'm black.'

Tracy John's article, while under the guise of a case study, did just that. As zirik said, she injected race into an issue that isn't about race. As if the only way for a black to be successful at making video games is to be the 'Spike Lee' of video games. Plenty of whites who are in the game industry are not the 'Steven Spielberg' or 'George Lucas' of video games yet still have successful careers but no articles are fixated on them as if they were an anomaly and need to do things on a grandiose scale in order to be considered capable.

This comment was edited on Apr 8, 11:10.
18.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 11:00
18.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 11:00
Apr 8, 2008, 11:00
 
it is interesting that tracy john tried her best to make a race issue out of every question she asks. i applaud ngai croal for answering them objectively because i think he realizes the real subject matter should be how difficult it was to get a job in the gaming industry. he did not sensationalize his response. the difficulty of getting work in the gaming industry is more of an economic issue rather than a race issue. practicality will always win over aspirations for those who are economically disadvantaged. like ngai croal said, up until recently (before there was an academic path to a career in game development) people used to get into the gaming industry by working low wage jobs just to get their foot in the door. thats not so when you got a degree to prove your talent and dedication... unless you pose nude in playboy after getting a boob job. then you get a free pass into the industry.

This comment was edited on Apr 8, 11:03.
17.
 
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels
Apr 8, 2008, 11:00
17.
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels Apr 8, 2008, 11:00
Apr 8, 2008, 11:00
 
How the fuck did this get turned into a thread about racial issues?

Cutter fuck you, you goddamn TROLL for hijacking this thread!

And fuck all the rest of you too for taking his bait!

I have a nifty blue line!
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16.
 
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels
Apr 8, 2008, 10:34
16.
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels Apr 8, 2008, 10:34
Apr 8, 2008, 10:34
 
nice list. i too would like to see a sequel to NOLF2 and undying. but sadly the NOLF franchise is in copyright limbo and undying will now be preceded by clive barkers reputation at making video games.

15.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 10:10
F7
15.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 10:10
Apr 8, 2008, 10:10
F7
 
I agree TA. The media is largely to blame for perpetuating negative sterotypes of blacks.

However, in keeping with your belief in 'personal responsibility', it's up to people to question that media portrayal and consider the fact that they are being fed a fallacy and swallowing it with little difficulty.

You see, there exists a sad double standard among Americans. They're more than happy to see a black criminal on the nightly news and without a second thought, then label all blacks as criminals...however when a white serial killer gets caught, they don't label all whites as serial killers. Or when a pedophile gets caught they don't label all whites as pedophiles. Or when a cult leader gets taken out, they don't label all whites as crazy cult leaders. And let's face it; the majority of serial killers, pedophiles, and cult leaders are whites.

Americans by and large are an extremely ignorant breed and nowhere is that more obvious than with the racial history of this country. "All Men Are Created Equal..."...yeah, except blacks, latinos, women, gays, Jews, etc...The first 28 presidents voted on solely by white men, the next 8 by white men and women, and finally the last 8 actually voted on by all persons regardless of race or sex.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, has to do with race nowadays, in the eyes of white America writ large. But the obvious question is this: if we have never seen racism as a real problem, contemporary to the time in which the charges are being made, and if in all generations past we were obviously wrong to the point of mass delusion in thinking this way, what should lead us to conclude that now, at long last, we've become any more astute at discerning social reality than we were before? Why should we trust our own perceptions or instincts on the matter, when we have run up such an amazingly bad track record as observers of the world in which we live?

In every era, black folks said they were the victims of racism and they were right. In every era, whites have said the problem was exaggerated, and we have been wrong.

But that's the problem: most whites do nothing in the face of racism. Most of us don't speak up, don't talk back, don't challenge family, friends, colleagues, or anyone else when they engage in racist actions or merely tell racist jokes. We sit back and remain largely silent, or condemn but only with caveats included. No wonder black leaders like Jackson and Sharpton end up being the visible faces of resistance: whites aren't showing up at all, so what are they supposed to do?

At the end of the day, it is white silence and collaboration that has always made racism, whether of the personal or institutional type, possible. If whites had, in larger numbers, joined with folks of color to challenge white supremacy, there is no way that such a system could have been maintained. There is no way that racist persons would be able to spew their venom without fear of reprisal, in most cases. They would know that such verbiage, or racist actions would be met forcefully, and that those engaging in such things would be ostracized. But white silence and inaction has given strength to the racists, whether on radio or in corporate offices, or government positions, or police uniforms; it has emboldened them to act out, since they have long had little reason to believe anything would happen. Slaveowners would have been powerless had the whites who didn't own slaves stood up to them and challenged their evil; so too with segregationists, those who lynched thousands of blacks from the late 1800s to the early 60s, and those who engage in discrimination today. The silent and passive collaborators with injustice are just as bad as those who do the deed, and have always been such. And too often, those folks have been us

Only when whites decide to connect with the alternative tradition of resistance, as opposed to collaboration, will things change. Only when we choose to take our place in the line--however much longer it should be--of antiracist white allies, will we be in a position to lecture folks of color on how they come at the issue. And even then, we'll have far more to learn than to teach in that regard. But until that time, and for however long white folks decide to remain on the sidelines in the struggle, our entitlement to say much of anything sideways to the Jacksons or Sharptons of the world will remain virtually non-existent. Pay some dues, and then maybe you can talk. Until then, shut it down. (Tim Wise)

14.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 09:24
14.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 09:24
Apr 8, 2008, 09:24
 
The problem lies, F7, with the fact that the only black (I absolutely refuse to use the sobriquet "African-American") people that the media presents to other races in any sort of quantity are those very same illiterate thugs.

I do not suffer from the aptly labeled "white guilt", every man sinks or swims on his own, regardless of his race, but I damn well believe that your most widely broadcast face becomes the face of your community. If that's "Fitty", then that is how you are perceived.

You expect that people research, read and learn about other cultures while forgetting that 95% of North Americans cite the TV as their main source of information.

"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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13.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 09:03
13.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 09:03
Apr 8, 2008, 09:03
 
I read the article and didn't see any "blame whitey" aspects at all. What parts of the article struck you as particularly "blame whitey"-ish? Oh and you forgot to mention the future President of the United States in your "black heroes" list: Barack Obama. And please, please stop defining all black culture as what black young males are into. I assure you, 40 yr old black men and women are not filling the concert halls of 50 Cent. Sheesh!

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Cutter, the only thing your post shows is how profoundly little you actually know about black people.

Go figure.


Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
Avatar 9141
12.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 08:33
F7
12.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 08:33
Apr 8, 2008, 08:33
F7
 
Cutter, the only thing your post shows is how profoundly little you actually know about black people.

Your assumption, your STEREOTYPE is that black people are nothing more than rap listening thugs and so their heroes are 50 Cent, Snoop, etc.

When if you actually KNEW black people, instead of basing your opinion on what you see of them on TV, you would know that simply is not true. Michael Eric Dyson, Cornell West, Amiri Baraka, Jesse Jackson, Dick Gregory, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maya Angelou, etc.

The simple reason that contemporary society does not have a person such as MLK, Malcolm, Eldridge, etc. is because history does not exist in a vacuum. You have to understand the era that these men lived was during the fight for Civil Rights. The fight to give blacks and minorities the most basic of human rights that white people had been enjoying since the inception of America.

Contemporary America does not have a problem as blatantly obvious as that. Don't get me wrong, there are still many obstacles minorities face such as institutional racism, and US Census Bureau, US Department of Justice, and US Department of Commerce statistics certainly indicate as much, but there is no large and blatantly obvious movement to undertake where a figure like MLK would come to the forefront of a struggle against injustice.

Just do yourself a favor and don't speak on racial matters because it's obvious how stunningly uneducated and ignorant on the matter you are.

If you would like to change though and learn some stuff, read some books by Michael Eric Dyson and Tim Wise.

Signed,
A white guy with a clue

11.
 
No subject
Apr 8, 2008, 07:52
11.
No subject Apr 8, 2008, 07:52
Apr 8, 2008, 07:52
 
I'd *REALLY* love to see a sequel to Anachronox. I still get depressed whenever I finish the first one and go "What the hell happens now?"

10.
 
No subject
Apr 8, 2008, 07:29
10.
No subject Apr 8, 2008, 07:29
Apr 8, 2008, 07:29
 
Thats gotta be the crappiest damn list of games ever, ok so some of them were moderately decent, but sequels WTF?

Where are?

TIE Fighter 2
Freespace 3 (this one already got mentioned)
Space Hulk 3
Mechwarrior 5 (Mechwarior 4 Mercs was the last one)
Syndicate 3

I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
9.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 06:49
9.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 06:49
Apr 8, 2008, 06:49
 
I read the article and didn't see any "blame whitey" aspects at all. What parts of the article struck you as particularly "blame whitey"-ish? Oh and you forgot to mention the future President of the United States in your "black heroes" list: Barack Obama. And please, please stop defining all black culture as what black young males are into. I assure you, 40 yr old black men and women are not filling the concert halls of 50 Cent. Sheesh!

What I saw was N'gai saying is he doesn't see any advantage or disadvantage for being black in the game industry. He also said black people love to play video games and will play even if there continue to be no/few black people in the game industry.

Anyway, I completely agreed with N'gai about DDR. DDR is fun but there really needs to be a hip hop dance game. America's Best Dance Crew on MTV was really cool, and the Jabbawockeez were really entertaining to watch. And rap and hip-hop are pretty much the dominant record sellers in the music scene in the US, but looking at video games, you'd have no idea.

This comment was edited on Apr 8, 06:58.
Adventures of a video game mercenary
http://virtualmerc.blogspot.com
8.
 
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels
Apr 8, 2008, 03:22
8.
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels Apr 8, 2008, 03:22
Apr 8, 2008, 03:22
 
wtf? The authors of the article must have been high or something. Starship Troopers? Transport Tycoon? Theme Hospital? Freelancer instead of Freespace 2?

WTF you talking about, Transport Tycoon kicks ass and definitely deserves a proper sequel. Locomotion was just a rehash. TTDPatch is nice but has run into technical barriers. OpenTTD shows promise, but all of the good stuff is still in patches which often get broken by new nightlies. Give us a real sequel, Chris Sawyer!

7.
 
No subject
Apr 8, 2008, 03:11
Prez
 
7.
No subject Apr 8, 2008, 03:11
Apr 8, 2008, 03:11
 Prez
 
Personally I'd love a sequel to Freelancer.


This comment was edited on Apr 8, 03:16.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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6.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 02:50
6.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 02:50
Apr 8, 2008, 02:50
 
Another "Blame Whitey" article. Holy shit, man, look at who your heroes were 40 years ago, MLK, Malcolm, Eldrige Cleaver, et al. And now? 50-Cent, Snoop Dogg, et al. You had a bunch of very intelligent, educated, articulate black men and women trying to advance Black people. Now you have a bunch of drug-thug assholes who are only concerned with the bling and 'smackin' dey bitches up'.

People in glass houses should not throw stones.


"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!"
- Cal Naughton Jr.
"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
5.
 
Re: Black Professionals...
Apr 8, 2008, 00:44
5.
Re: Black Professionals... Apr 8, 2008, 00:44
Apr 8, 2008, 00:44
 
now look at the post by "Summer Glau" in the "Black Professionals" story.

Footnotes and everything. That's beautiful

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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4.
 
Black Professionals...
Apr 7, 2008, 23:45
4.
Black Professionals... Apr 7, 2008, 23:45
Apr 7, 2008, 23:45
 

http://www.xckd.com/406/

now look at the post by "Summer Glau" in the "Black Professionals" story.


Avatar 22932
3.
 
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels
Apr 7, 2008, 23:33
3.
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels Apr 7, 2008, 23:33
Apr 7, 2008, 23:33
 

Just more of what pass for game journalism these day.

2.
 
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels
Apr 7, 2008, 23:30
2.
Re: 5 PC games that deserve sequels Apr 7, 2008, 23:30
Apr 7, 2008, 23:30
 
yeah i found the article rather strange. seems like he games in his very spare time and has played some rubbish and thats about it.

i dont see the point in making an article about it though considering the amount of different opinions and god knows how many games that need a sequel.

1.
 
5 PC games that deserve sequels
Apr 7, 2008, 22:42
1.
5 PC games that deserve sequels Apr 7, 2008, 22:42
Apr 7, 2008, 22:42
 
wtf? The authors of the article must have been high or something. Starship Troopers? Transport Tycoon? Theme Hospital? Freelancer instead of Freespace 2?

Here's the real list of PC games that deserve sequels (even if they already have one or two):

1. Sacrifice.
2. Interstate '76.
3. No One Lives Forever 2.
4. Deus Ex.
5. Thief.
6. Undying.
7. System Shock 2.
8. Blood.
9. Freespace 2.
10. Tribes.

There are probably a lot more out there but I'm hungry so that's all for now.

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