New Star Trek Online Developer?

WarCry is reporting that P2 Entertainment, the developer formerly known as Perpetual Entertainment, is no longer working on Star Trek Online. This is the latest chapter in a saga that has included the dissolution and reformation of Perpetual amid rumors that the project would end up being a "casual" game (story) and a lawsuit alleging that fraud had occurred somewhere along the way (story). Attributed to "multiple sources" at P2/Perpetual, this unconfirmed report says the license and "game's content" (presumably art assets) have been transferred to a different Bay-area developer (which is not named), but the game code remains at Perpetual/P2, suggesting this game's eventual release is still a long way off.
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24.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 16, 2008, 11:49
24.
Re: No subject Jan 16, 2008, 11:49
Jan 16, 2008, 11:49
 
Re your X Comments, Fair play mate, i'll take that answer (not that my opinion matters much), but yher i'd go with the comments 100% now i am thinking about it and am not just being a arse for the sake of it

Its warming to hear the X community is going strong, i was very fond of beyond the frontier, and xtension, the later games however i just didnt get allong with - mainly because with the exception of the excellent graphics i just dont think they did enough to warrent a new game.

"On the other hand, Eve isn't really a space sim in the traditional sense (that's what Derek was saying, I think, and I agree with it). It's more accurate to say that it is inspired by the space sim genre".

With this, i dunno i understand what your getting at, in that its not traditional in the vain of say, Xwing, for example.

What i dont get allong with however is that its not a valid space sim, i can stretch my mind and see my self plotting a course, or setting a headin with a computer (in eve this is simply double clicking in space to allign in that direction - power up my shield defense etc etc.

what i am trying to say is why does it have to be "twitchy" in order to be a proper space sim?

But i DO appreciate what your saying, i just like to think there is room in the space sceane for all these games without devaluing the others. (again i am not saying you are, i just got that feeling from derek and rightly or wrongly it angered me).

I think my problem (and yes it is mine) is that i love space games loads and it dipresses the shit out of me we have not had a good one in a very long time (with a few rare exceptions). i tend to over react to bad press to the ones i percive "good". Especially when the developer in question worked really hard to rescue a basically doomed game (EvE is a great story, they lost thier pulisher & near folded - managed to re aquire the rights to publish themselves and have made a royal success out of things), that allong with flying with my mates in a group of 50 to go and attack enemy space is something that has never been achived in any space game i know of todate, (with the exception of the rather awsome microsoft game called allegiance) that unfortunatly folded cause they tried to make it subscription based (shame it was a good title).

So yes, your right its not a space sim in the traditional sense, but thats more how the ways things have gone (in that most space sims are just airplane dog fights in space, and i love it) - but i feel thats not always a bad thing.

This comment was edited on Jan 16, 11:54.
Everyone on Bluesnews is synical, get over it.
edit: i cant spell, this is my disclaimer.
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23.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 16, 2008, 11:27
23.
Re: No subject Jan 16, 2008, 11:27
Jan 16, 2008, 11:27
 
that said, i'll stand corrected if you like, however back in the days when "xtension" was all the rage, i used to post over at the egosoft forums lots (there is actaully a GREAT little space community over there) and i'd be willing to bet if you posted a poll up, over 80% of folks wouldnt be playing the game for combat.
The community is still great over there. I don't think 80% are not playing for combat, but perhaps 80% are playing for trade with occasional combat.

It's almost impossible to avoid combat entirely, especially if your economic empire is huge. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to avoid trade entirely. A gamer could theoretically stay with the original fighter and never buy or sell anything. I don't know how long the player could last making sorties into pirate sectors, but it would technically be combat-only.

in fact, id go further than that, X is a empire building game in most peoples eyes.
That may be true, but it's still a "pure" space sim when it comes right down to it. It just has lots of other components also.

On the other hand, Eve isn't really a space sim in the traditional sense (that's what Derek was saying, I think, and I agree with it). It's more accurate to say that it is inspired by the space sim genre.

This comment was edited on Jan 16, 11:30.
22.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 16, 2008, 11:04
22.
Re: No subject Jan 16, 2008, 11:04
Jan 16, 2008, 11:04
 
in fact screw it,

YES ill just stand corrected on the X comment, it was hasty and ignorant.

/Back Track.

But i will justify the comment based on Derek's criteria of "(as it pertains to what a space combat action game is and shuold be able)"


This comment was edited on Jan 16, 11:08.
Everyone on Bluesnews is synical, get over it.
edit: i cant spell, this is my disclaimer.
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21.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 16, 2008, 11:02
21.
Re: No subject Jan 16, 2008, 11:02
Jan 16, 2008, 11:02
 
hmmmm, well fair enough,

maybe i jumped the gun there, but frankly the flight model in that game(s) is totally substandard in my opinion, and they are joystick based.

that said, i'll stand corrected if you like, however back in the days when "xtension" was all the rage, i used to post over at the egosoft forums lots (there is actaully a GREAT little space community over there) and i'd be willing to bet if you posted a poll up, over 80% of folks wouldnt be playing the game for combat.

in fact, id go further than that, X is a empire building game in most peoples eyes.


This comment was edited on Jan 16, 11:03.
Everyone on Bluesnews is synical, get over it.
edit: i cant spell, this is my disclaimer.
Avatar 23977
20.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 16, 2008, 09:52
20.
Re: No subject Jan 16, 2008, 09:52
Jan 16, 2008, 09:52
 
If you wanted to hole up any game in the space arena in the way you did, that would be every game in the Xseries, with the exception of the first, "beyond the frontier".
Now who's being ignorant? You can play X2 or X3 without trading at all. If the player desires, the X series games can be pure combat.

It just so happens that trading is a part of the game that many people focus on; but I'd be willing to bet a fair number of players focus on combat (like you said is the case with Eve).

19.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 19:17
19.
Re: No subject Jan 15, 2008, 19:17
Jan 15, 2008, 19:17
 
@ derek.

Excuse my english, I wrote it as quick as i could muster during some down time at work.

My Point is the following.

You have (by your own admission) holed EvE as a trading sim, when in fact the stats released by CCP show that over 55% of the whole EvE population has zero trading related training.

"Quote un Quote", with some meaningless stats combat thrown in.

Combat in EvE is a pretty deep and complex mechanic once you learn how it works, its not a case of turn on your modules and see whos got the better skill points, at all. the amount of skill needed is staggering once you understand it.

Having said all that, EvE is not a twitch game in the vain of wing commander or freespace. However again, its not supposed to be, the ships you pilot in EvE hold upwards of 100 people in lots of cases. Even the small frigates are supposed to have lots of people onboard. in other words you wouldnt be sat in the pilots seat ragging a joystick around pretending to be luke skywalker.

I apprecate that you dont like eve, its not for everyone and its certainly not a quick thrills game. I am well aware that not everyone who like's space games likes it. I think however to hole it as a trading sim set in space as you did shows a COMPLEATE lack of understanding of what EvE is.

I've played most of the space games that have had the grace to land in the UK since Elite, and love many of them for different reasons. Freespace for it's excellent combat, Iwar2 for its good flight mechanic's and atmosphere, hell even your games for there ability to try and reach beyond the cockpit.

If you cant see that your comment was short sighted and missinformed then i think you should take a look in the mirror man, you dont have to like the game - but at least judge it on what it is, not what you percive it to be from the 2 or 3 days you spent with it (at most).

It might not be the definition of a Space combat sim to you, but i put to you that its more like flying a huge starship than most games, where as games like Freespace whilst HUGELY engoyable are more like a Arcade game, set in space.

As for my English, yup my writen english suck's, and i cant help it, i am not going to explain why. All though i do find it mildly ammusing that you tell me to head back to school when your first comment was "STFU", very adult.

I dont need to get over anything, i am well aware of the limitations of EvE and what it is or is not, and i genunily love the game for it's depth and wonderfully complex combat.

anyhow as it happen's this little rant has made me thirst to reinstall Iwar2, cause i like that, depspite all its faults.

I am not asking you to like a game you dont, i am simply pointing out that you might wanna just ADMIT, that you dont know everything about this game and as such arnt 100% qualifyed (no matter what you do for ajob) to hole it in 1 backet. each to there own.

If you wanted to hole up any game in the space arena in the way you did, that would be every game in the Xseries, with the exception of the first, "beyond the frontier".

The rest of your post on the engine stuff however made good reading, its always nice to hear about this stuff from someone with a clue.

Good day.

This comment was edited on Jan 15, 19:29.
Everyone on Bluesnews is synical, get over it.
edit: i cant spell, this is my disclaimer.
Avatar 23977
18.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 12:03
18.
Re: No subject Jan 15, 2008, 12:03
Jan 15, 2008, 12:03
 
I think it's unfortunate that it's the "poster child" for space combat games now.

Thats called viral marketing.

Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
Avatar 9141
17.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 11:23
17.
Re: No subject Jan 15, 2008, 11:23
Jan 15, 2008, 11:23
 
Someone probably looked at Eve's numbers and decided that its where they needed to be. Forgetting that Eve is not even a fun (as it pertains to what a space combat action game is and shuold be able) game let alone a space game. Its purely a trading sim, set in space, and with some meaningless stats combat thrown in. If anything, my money is on Jumpgate being more of an MMO for those who want that sort of thing; and I expect that their upcoming Jumpgate Evolution will be even better and hopefully shed its niche roots and be able to expand the genre some more.
Wow. I'm surprised to find myself totally agreeing with you, Derek. I played Eve about a year ago when I was trying to see what all the fuss over MMOs was about (I eventually discovered they weren't for me), and I tried very hard to like it. But when it came right down to it, I just didn't find it very fun. I think it's unfortunate that it's the "poster child" for space combat games now.


This comment was edited on Jan 15, 11:25.
16.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 10:34
16.
Re: No subject Jan 15, 2008, 10:34
Jan 15, 2008, 10:34
 
Apparently MUO has already been canned; though no official word yet. If thats true, then that would explain why they'd take on STO.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7943&Itemid=2

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/49920

Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
Avatar 9141
15.
 
No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 10:10
15.
No subject Jan 15, 2008, 10:10
Jan 15, 2008, 10:10
 
...report says the license and "game's content" (presumably art assets) have been transferred to a different Bay-area developer (which is not named)

Cryptic Studios

http://www.w00tstudios.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=20

While City of Heroes and Villains is doing ok... not sure why they'd go to a developer that's already building another MMO (Marvel Universe Online). Seems to be too much on their plate already, let alone enough resources to focus on a Star Trek IP.

Get your games from GOG DAMMIT!
Avatar 19499
14.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 09:49
14.
Re: No subject Jan 15, 2008, 09:49
Jan 15, 2008, 09:49
 
UPDATE: Yep, the Star Trek Online IP has been transfered/sold to, uhm, Cryptic?

http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboard/showthread.php?t=12178

If they only sold or sub-licensed the IP, then yeah, they don' t need to transfer any code unless it is explicitly a part of the deal.

My guess is that their contract with Paramount prevents them from sub-licensing the IP. In which case if they go out of business - or don't release a game by a certain time - the IP would revert back to the owners (Paramount).

This is all speculation of course, but I've signed (and seen) enough deals to know how they are usually constructed.

If the IP has been transfered to another developer, then it would lend credence to what I said above regarding transference. My guess is that Paramount probably excercised their rights under the contract and yanked their IP. Which would explain why Perpetual's new company retains the code. I guess Paramount - or the new devs - didn't want to pay for code that was either rubbish (my guess) that was un-useable.

Starting from scratch means that the STO game time has been reset to another two to three years. At best.

Whats going to be interesting is how the lawsuit pans out. My sources tell me that even the "engine" they licensed to Bioware is suspect at best and will likely go un-used; especially now that Bioware is owned by EA.

AFAIK, there are no other takers for that "engine". In fact, that was the same engine running Gods & Heroes as well as STO. If they couldn't release a single game based on it, what does that tell you?

@ Theo

STFU. You can't even write proper understandable English, yet you want to join a debate as well as misinterprete what I wrote in my blog? Stay in school, retard.

Here, let me quote what I said again in my blog:

Someone probably looked at Eve's numbers and decided that its where they needed to be. Forgetting that Eve is not even a fun (as it pertains to what a space combat action game is and shuold be able) game let alone a space game. Its purely a trading sim, set in space, and with some meaningless stats combat thrown in. If anything, my money is on Jumpgate being more of an MMO for those who want that sort of thing; and I expect that their upcoming Jumpgate Evolution will be even better and hopefully shed its niche roots and be able to expand the genre some more.

I don't like Eve. A lot of space combat/sim gamers don't like Eve. If they did, they would have a lot more subscribers. That of course does not make Eve a bad game and I never said that it was. Its.just.not.fun and nowhere near the definition of a space combat game, let alone a space combat sim.

Get over it.
This comment was edited on Jan 15, 10:04.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
Avatar 9141
13.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 09:23
13.
Re: No subject Jan 15, 2008, 09:23
Jan 15, 2008, 09:23
 
sent over the art and images to a company but refusing to give up the code.

Chances are that Perpetual owns any code they write but art assets belong to the company that granted the dev contract. That would be especially true for a licensed product like Star Trek. Any ST imagery is, more than likely, soley owned by Paramount.

Devs hold on to code like it was gold. What gets written for one game is probably going to end up in a lot of other games the devs make. If they sign the code away in a contract then, when the contract is done, they have nothing with which to use for their next project. Art, on the other hand, has a fairly short "shelf-life". What is cutting edge on one project is yesterday's news on the next.

This comment was edited on Jan 15, 09:24.
12.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 15, 2008, 08:46
12.
Re: No subject Jan 15, 2008, 08:46
Jan 15, 2008, 08:46
 
yher this one had "bullshit" writern all over it for quite some time, i had a read of the post over on smarts forum, all was going well untill he deicded to talk about EvE online whilst blatantly not knowing jack sh1t about it.

he might be a professional game dev - but opening his mouth without thinking of having any clue about the subject matter?

I am looking forward to seeing how jumpgate evolution pan's out, but frankly my hopes are not high. Jumpgate was bugg ridden and broken, and there last game was such a craphut its was untrue.

RIP Auto assualt; worst game ever.com.

:/


This comment was edited on Jan 15, 08:57.
Everyone on Bluesnews is synical, get over it.
edit: i cant spell, this is my disclaimer.
Avatar 23977
11.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 14, 2008, 21:54
11.
Re: No subject Jan 14, 2008, 21:54
Jan 14, 2008, 21:54
 
Perpetual is run by crooks... I cant wait to see them locked up for their actions...

I couldnt wait for Star Trek Online. Now they 'halted production' ... sent over the art and images to a company but refusing to give up the code.

I hate Perpetual. Lousy & Greedy Company... Ill be sure to stop by when their locked up

This comment was edited on Jan 14, 21:55.
10.
 
No subject
Jan 14, 2008, 21:29
10.
No subject Jan 14, 2008, 21:29
Jan 14, 2008, 21:29
 
Not to diminish your prognostication abilities, Derek, but when the first published article about the ST MMO discussed how they were focusing their energies on correctly rendering starship hallways it wasn't hard to see that there was little chance of its success.

LMAO!!! OMG that was hilarious. But yeah, you were right. However, what made me know - for a fact - that they couldn't possibly pull it off, was when I read their first dev blog. Then once they announced - the now canned - Gods & Heroes, insted of focusing on such a high profile IP like Star Trek, I knew those bozos were in trouble. Seriously, sometimes when I look at the industry, I wonder how we got to this point. Stupid investors.

LOL.

No pressure Derek but you may be the last person making games in the space genre very soon

I know!! Tell me about it. And I was just this morning ranting about just that in my dev blog (see my previous post for the link).

Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
Avatar 9141
9.
 
Re: I called it!!
Jan 14, 2008, 18:50
9.
Re: I called it!! Jan 14, 2008, 18:50
Jan 14, 2008, 18:50
 
Not to diminish your prognostication abilities, Derek, but when the first published article about the ST MMO discussed how they were focusing their energies on correctly rendering starship hallways it wasn't hard to see that there was little chance of its success.

8.
 
Re: I called it!!
Jan 14, 2008, 18:15
NKD
8.
Re: I called it!! Jan 14, 2008, 18:15
Jan 14, 2008, 18:15
NKD
 
LOL.

No pressure Derek but you may be the last person making games in the space genre very soon

Avatar 43041
7.
 
Don't care
Jan 14, 2008, 18:12
7.
Don't care Jan 14, 2008, 18:12
Jan 14, 2008, 18:12
 
After hearing about the change of direction for the game, I couldn't care less. I lost all hope of the game being any good a while ago.

Avatar 6580
6.
 
I called it!!
Jan 14, 2008, 16:59
6.
I called it!! Jan 14, 2008, 16:59
Jan 14, 2008, 16:59
 
I frigging knew it!!!

http://www.3000ad.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=46000002&view=findpost&p=158097

Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them
Avatar 9141
5.
 
Re: ...
Jan 14, 2008, 16:26
nin
 
5.
Re: ... Jan 14, 2008, 16:26
Jan 14, 2008, 16:26
 nin
 
A Star Trek MMO game could be great and actually be something I'd want to pay for, though this project has been a disaster from the start and I hold absolutely no hope that this will be any good.

I thought the JJ Abrams movies was supposed to reboot Trek anyway? Whats the point when you're about to toss out the entire history and start over?

Maybe they'll try and wrap the game around the new movie?


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