Unfortunately, I have played Gothic 3. It broke my heart. As an avid fan of the first two games, I was really excited about the third entry in the series. Unfortunately, they fucked up just about everything that was good about Gothic.

The combat system was completely broken. Attack animations were too slow so NPCs would miss 90% of their attacks. It was truly sad that it would take about five minutes for a high-level NPC to kill a Scavenger. Conversely, enemies could be dispatched by simply spamming the quick or medium attack. When I was able to kill a whole camp full of orcs (a fearsome enemy in the first two games) at the very start of the game, I was in shock. In addition, the per-pixel hit detection of the weapons meant that it was hard to avoid hitting friendly or neutral NPCs in crowded combat situations and they'd attack you for doing so, forcing you to beat them up.

AI was equally horrible. Enemies would stand still as you pelted them with arrows from afar. Their detection radius was extremely limited so this was a common occurrence. NPC AI also seemed to have forgotten how to jump. In the first two games, if you climbed on top of a platform, the AI would actually jump up and climb after you. Non-combat AI had some gaping logic holes. You could walk into an Mercenary base wearing Rebel armor and nobody would care.

Sound, a really key part of the previous games, was barely existent in Gothic 3. Monsters and creatures were mostly silent and lacked the distinctive warning noises that they had in the first two games. Combat SFX were very limited as well and there wasn't even a SFX for pulling out your sword. Ambient SFX were missing all over the place, like with the waterfalls. The music was great but it seems like their entire budget went into that alone. Oh, they also got rid of all the original voice actors which was a really bad move, considering the key characters had prominent roles throughout the first two games and players had grown used to their voices.

Hell, from a design standpoint alone the game was terribly flawed. Whereas the first two games kept the world small but focused, Gothic 3 tried to convey a far larger world, resulting in lots of small towns with forgettable characters and minimal dialogue. It was clear that Piranha Bytes was trying to compete with Oblivion in terms of scope and in doing so, they replicated many of Oblivion's failings.

And then you have all the technical issues. The game runs like crap regardless of your rig. There are blatant graphical issues (like the broken ocean rendering) all over the place. Then there are the broken quests and skills.

You'll have to forgive me for my little rant but I was genuinely offended by Gothic 3. What was once a great series was raped, bludgeoned and buried. Gothic 3 surpassed even DX:IW as the greatest travesty in sequel history. DX:IW, taken as a standalone game and not as the sequel to the best game ever, was tolerable and in some ways even decent. Gothic 3? I couldn't even finish the game. Just too damn depressing.

Actually, now that I have your attention, go play the somewaht flawed, but incredibly excellent, Gothic 3.

I think it's amazing and blows O outta the water. Perhaps, that's just me. Perhaps I'm exaggerating.

Perhaps one day I'll see it that way.

Sad? Not to me. I rather enjoyed myself. Oblivion may not be a good RPG (or even much of an RPG at all) but it is a good game, despite its numerous flaws.

Just so you know, I put over 200 hours into Oblivion and I do play TF2 on a semi-regular basis...

That's just so, I don't know how to say it. Sad. I had respect for you, now I don't. [Shakes head in, not disgust, nor frustration, just, shakes head]

As for more complex = better, that isn't necessarily true. The Civilization games are very complex, for example, but I don't find them interesting at all. I just don't find macromanagement very appealing.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I thought that Civilization 4: Beyond The Sword was amazing and added so much to the original game.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

Just so you know, I put over 200 hours into Oblivion and I do play TF2 on a semi-regular basis...

As for more complex = better, that isn't necessarily true. The Civilization games are very complex, for example, but I don't find them interesting at all. I just don't find macromanagement very appealing. And Q3 isn't complex. It just has a steep learning curve because of the skill level of the other players. It's easy to have fun when you are playing with equally-skilled players but if you are new and join a server now, chances are you'll get whipped so hard you won't have any fun.

I aploigise for that, written communication is not my strong point. That being said, anything of intelligent from me may be lost to you or they may not even have been there, but I do believe some people see exactly what I'm saying.

I don't overly enjoy jumping on peoples back, but like many people around here disagree with at times and my feel wound up and 'have ago'. I'd like to think most of what I add is light weight and non-offesive to all.

I enjoy reading what Jerykk as to say and have read much of it over the years. I disagree with it often and am fine with that. Sometimes I feel like disagreeing with what I feel is his demand that complexity equal greater game. It is true in some regards but far from the golden rule of game design which I would say is closer to 'this will be fun to its audiance'

To be on topic and non-offecive I would like to add that I believe that Civ4:Beyond the Sword is undouttable the best expantion of the year. What it adds just to the epic game is amazing.

And the thing is Kosumo, I never have any idea what you're trying to say. To me it sounds like you enjoy jumping on people's backs without contributing anything intelligent to say.

Yes, well, it's like he's seen the movie 'last star fighter' one to many times and believes his ablity to play 'hardcore' fps (tribes/q3) makes him the man while everyone who is playing oblivion or tf2 or civ4 is 'just playing games'

He sounds a bit like derek smart with a 'simply thing are for simply people' mindset and if there is a massive learning curve and you stick to it - your l33t!!

If by "casual twitch players" you are referring to Q3, I beg to differ.

Well, keep differing and keep begging. You actually can jump into a game of Q3 and enjoy it quite quickly. Case in point, I was just at my friends house the other night and I got her daughter into Q3 when she was eight years old. Gibs and all.

But she's a smart girl. She hadn't mastered strafing or anything but did pretty good on Q3CTF4 with just the mouse.

Now she's fifteen years old and still holds her own. She get's her ass wasted like we all do but still has fun with it. Sadly, I installed 'Imagine Fashion Designer' which isn't bad from an adventure game standpoint, but I guess we all grow up in different ways.

Anyways, I know what you're trying to say, but the point is is that you can actually have a great time playing Q3 even if you don't know what's really going on.

This comment was edited on Jan 4, 18:11.

Vastly different games, pandering to anyone from 'casual' twitch players to hardcore team players.

If by "casual twitch players" you are referring to Q3, I beg to differ. There is nothing even remotely casual about Q3, as it requires far more skill than most shooters out there. Casual players stick with TF2, BF2, etc, where movement is slow and most weapons are hitscan.

Does that mean all books with over 300 pages are better than books with less than 300 pages?

Nope. However, a book with 300 pages will most likely have a much more complex and developed story than a book with 10 pages.

Except when it's a BC3KAD thread

Or when you're thirteen years old. Derek has ten million times the balls and intelligence than you do, KX.

I enjoy teamwork most when it's with someone on my couch.

Hey, come on - keep it clean....this is a family show.

Except when it's a BC3KAD thread

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http://www.gamemusicjukebox.com/
Game p/reviewer for http://www.gameindustry.com/

but putting Quake Wars above Team Fortress 2 is just pathetic

Yes, I see Ray doesn't like it or many other people, but oh well.


I haven't played a lot of these games yet so I can't judge a lot of them but it looks like this year they actually picked some good games as opposed to the last few years, which were a joke.

From a glance at looking at these 13 websites they seem to agree on a lot of things. That's good, it means that the retards that normally run these things are paying attention.

I was also happy the Quake Wars: Enemy Territory made it in there. I think it's a great game but expected it to be a niche market that wouldn't get recognized.

After all of these years of people screaming for a multiplayer game with depth it just gets scorn for doing exactly that. Not that I mind too much, but comparing it to TF2 is apples and oranges. Yes, there's some graphical animation problems, perhaps some balance. But seriously, this isn't a BF2 or a Q3. It's heavy duty.

We'll see how it pans out in the long run. TF2 vs ETQW is like Q3 vs ETPro. Vastly different games, pandering to anyone from 'casual' twitch players to hardcore team players.

Anyways, I was glad to see it in there, yet didn't expect it. I think the games industry might, dare I day it, be actually maturing. Finally.

Overall it just looked like a lot of these sites spent some time picking good games instead of the tripe we've been laughing at for the last few years.

Portal didn't have much of a story to it, so I would agree that The Witcher's was better, but Ep2 did and it was, imo, a better experience than The Witcher (which is also very good).

In my book, Great Material > Good Material, regardless of originality.

I hold originality to be of much greater importance but with games it's more about how it is delivered, rather than the actual story. Half-Life 2 didn't have a deep story but the way in which is was delivered made it stand out - Ep2 took that delivery, improved upon it considerably and added a decent plot to it. The Witcher also did a good job but the voice acting, character animations, etc, were not as expressive or polished.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn

Well, obviously. However, can you honestly say that The Witcher, an epic 50+ hour RPG, has an inferior storyline to Portal, a sub-three hour puzzler? I liked Portal, sure, but I can't agree that it had the best story of the year.

Does that mean all books with over 300 pages are better than books with less than 300 pages? bah.

They could have stretched Portal to 50+ if they made you do a bunch of crap that didn't matter....now, that being said, I still want to try out Witcher.... I will make Witcher a 2008 GoTY since that is when I will play.

Supporter of the Cell Phone Jamming movement.

You state it like it's fact. It's your opinion.

Well, obviously. However, can you honestly say that The Witcher, an epic 50+ hour RPG, has an inferior storyline to Portal, a sub-three hour puzzler? I liked Portal, sure, but I can't agree that it had the best story of the year.

I had made no mention of The Witcher in that post and have had nothing but praise for The Witcher.

You had claimed that the Orange Box had the best gameplay experience, best story, etc. I disputed your claim by citing The Witcher as having the best storyline.

You pull the same shit with Tribes. A little defensive of your games?

My games? It's not like I made them. I'm just defending my opinion, much like you defend your's.

I enjoy teamwork most when it's with someone on my couch.

Hey, come on - keep it clean....this is a family show.

Supporter of the Cell Phone Jamming movement.