Defending Hellgate: London

Bill Roper responds to Hellgate: London criticisms on GamePro (thanks Hellgate IncGamers) has reactions from Flagship to some of the complaints about Hellgate: London, their new action/RPG. This includes repeating how the flow of levels has been changed from the beta, skills, perks for paid subscribers, and more on the subscription system ("The whole idea was to give everybody what they wanted").
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73.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 8, 2007, 20:22
73.
Re: No subject Nov 8, 2007, 20:22
Nov 8, 2007, 20:22
 
Sure thing; you get SFA...

72.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 8, 2007, 18:14
72.
Re: No subject Nov 8, 2007, 18:14
Nov 8, 2007, 18:14
 
What exactly are you getting with the subcription fees? You still have to pay for expansions. Can someone enumerate what you get?


- - - - - - - - - -
Bioshock, Crysis, Quake Wars, HL2:Episode 2/Portal/TF2, Gears of War PC, Unreal Tournament 3... it's going to be a good Q4. :-)
This comment was edited on Nov 8, 19:34.
My Steam Community link:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/slinkfsu
71.
 
No subject
Nov 8, 2007, 11:06
71.
No subject Nov 8, 2007, 11:06
Nov 8, 2007, 11:06
 
No LAN.

'nuff said.

70.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 8, 2007, 01:30
Prez
 
70.
Re: No subject Nov 8, 2007, 01:30
Nov 8, 2007, 01:30
 Prez
 
The thing is though, an 8 from IGN means your game is rather okay. An 9 means it's good. You need to get into 9.5+ territory with them to approach great/excellent territory, and often that rating is given to publishers who spend lots of advertising dollars.

I don't know about all that, but I do know that the PC Gamer scoring method is to give a 90% to any game they are given an exclusive first review to!
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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69.
 
No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 22:59
69.
No subject Nov 7, 2007, 22:59
Nov 7, 2007, 22:59
 
"The whole idea was to give everybody what they wanted"

and by "everybody" he means, everyone in the company
and by "what they wanted" he means, crap loads of $$$$$$

so the statement could be read as

""The whole idea was to give everybody in the company crap loads of money"

lol nice one bill roper

_________________________________________________
NO COOP = NO PURCHASE
NO MULTICORE SUPPORT = NO BUY
NO NATIVE WIDESCREEN SUPPORT = NO CASH FOR YOU
CRITICAL PATCH released within 2 weeks = RETURN TO STORE
IN GAME ADVERTISING = GO ***** YOURSELVES
_________________________________________________
"Money doesn't exist in the 24th century, the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." - Jean-Luc Picard
68.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 21:19
68.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 21:19
Nov 7, 2007, 21:19
 
The reviews at any IGN site a fu*cking idiots.

Reviews can not be classified as idiots. Because they aren't alive. Being an idiot is something that is attributed to human beings.

Look at most of there game reviews. They don't make any kind of sense.

Hmmm. I look at their game reviews, and see a review of a game. They tell you a bit about the backstory of the game, how it looks, how it sounds, how it plays, usually in some failed attempt at witty writing. Then they blab a bit about the developer, and in general give the game a ridiculously high score that ranges from 7.6 to 10.

I'm not really sure why they don't make any sense to you, but whatever.

The thing is though, an 8 from IGN means your game is rather okay. An 9 means it's good. You need to get into 9.5+ territory with them to approach great/excellent territory, and often that rating is given to publishers who spend lots of advertising dollars.

In general, IGN doesn't give many sub 7 scores. Hellgate got a 6.8. For IGN standards, that's pretty damn bad.

Creston

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67.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 21:15
67.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 21:15
Nov 7, 2007, 21:15
 
2) (Why'd you use 2 and not B?)

Because I'm old and forgetful


Here's the gist though. In a previous interview, back in the summer, Roper was confronted with the following question :

"What's to stop people from waiting a year, paying 10 bucks, and getting 12 months worth of content? Content that others, who have been paying loyally, paid 120 bucks for?"

His reply was that that would be unfair, and wasn't going to happen. If you stop paying for 10 months, you don't get those 10 months of content. Although to be honest, I doubt Roper & Co really even know what they're going to do with this scenario.

One thing we definitely know is that as soon as you stop paying, you lose everything you paid for. That's just bullshit. You're not fucking buying their "extra content", you're RENTING it.


And okay, fair enough, once you stop playing, you've stopped for good, and never would go back. Plenty of people do go back after a six month break or so. And whether they then get their access to previous content back remains to be seen.

In general, it sounds like a really shitty business model to me.

Creston


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66.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 21:14
66.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 21:14
Nov 7, 2007, 21:14
 
I'm having more fun playing Mythos then I did playing HG.

65.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 20:56
65.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 20:56
Nov 7, 2007, 20:56
 
The reviews at any IGN site a fu*cking idiots. Look at most of there game reviews. They don't make any kind of sense.

64.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 20:55
64.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 20:55
Nov 7, 2007, 20:55
 
So you prefer a pricing model where

a) Nope, I have no idea what extra content I'll get. But, I don't have to pay for it until I do.

I hope there are expansions, really. I also want to get some content in between that period for expansions, which didn't happen with Guild Wars (yes, I do own that too).

2) (Why'd you use 2 and not B?)
Bucking the trend.

B) I get bored with Hellgate after a while, and stop playing and stop paying. I lose all the extra content that I've been paying for, which I'm no longer playing anyway. I have no access to it anymore, but sit around wondering why I'd need it for something I'm not playing anymore anyway.

Or, when I do want to play it again I go and re-up my subscription and get access to all of it again (and if it's like other services, anything that was added during my absence). I didn't lose anything.

This is not new. All MMO's are the same way. I haven't played EQ in years, but if I go back and turn my subscription back on my characters are still there. The stuff doesn't disappear, you just stop paying for it when you're no longer using it.

63.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 20:45
63.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 20:45
Nov 7, 2007, 20:45
 

Didn't 1.10 in D2 add a metric assload of content? To the point that it freaked everyone out that they were overhauling it that significantly years after it had been released?


It added a lot of balance changes and reworks, but I don't really remember any new content in the context that it's usually used in. The only real addition to the game was in the expansion pack.

You guys need a day job

I have one, that's why I'm here and not playing HGL or a round of TF2 or something.

62.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 20:41
62.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 20:41
Nov 7, 2007, 20:41
 
NCSoft does not own ArenaNet.

From a press release by ArenaNet:

http://www.arena.net/press/pr-060110.php


About ArenaNet
ArenaNet, located in Bellevue, Washington, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of NCsoft Corporation.



Sorry to burst your bubble.

/edit to add, here: http://www.arenanet.com/press/pr-021211.php

Just in case you need something more.

This comment was edited on Nov 7, 20:42.
61.
 
Re: For your eyes only
Nov 7, 2007, 20:27
61.
Re: For your eyes only Nov 7, 2007, 20:27
Nov 7, 2007, 20:27
 
You guys need a day job

I just log in and have fun, you are all way too uptight

I have a day job, and i did in fact log in, but there was no fun to be had.

60.
 
Oh
Nov 7, 2007, 20:17
60.
Oh Nov 7, 2007, 20:17
Nov 7, 2007, 20:17
 
This game is not worth my time but its worth my time to tell you so LOL.

59.
 
@ Flatline
Nov 7, 2007, 20:17
Prez
 
59.
@ Flatline Nov 7, 2007, 20:17
Nov 7, 2007, 20:17
 Prez
 
We don't complain about Xbox live's microtransactions here because it's so stupid isn't even worth our time complaining about. :O

I don't own a 360, and I wouldn't touch XboxLive if I did. I certainly will have nothing to do with it in the few PC worthless PC games "Live" is utilized in.


This comment was edited on Nov 7, 20:18.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
58.
 
Great game for me
Nov 7, 2007, 20:14
58.
Great game for me Nov 7, 2007, 20:14
Nov 7, 2007, 20:14
 
I love it more so than any other shooter atm, all you need to do is log on and play. no thinking about anything but play simple fun is what we have here. and im enjoying the new content and the new patch made the game even better for me.

GOW bah been there and every other shooter same ole shit. this is new and i like it very much. not as involving as ppl thought its just a simple shooter but it does it good.

57.
 
Re: For your eyes only
Nov 7, 2007, 20:11
57.
Re: For your eyes only Nov 7, 2007, 20:11
Nov 7, 2007, 20:11
 
You guys need a day job

I just log in and have fun, you are all way too uptight

I have a day job.
It keeps me pretty occupied. With my little free time every night, I like to partake in something worthwhile. The hour or two I have a day to actually relax are pretty valuable, as they're hard to come by.



When you have tons of free time you don't need to discriminate.
When you have little free time you do.

Hellgate is not even close to worth my time.
56.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 20:05
56.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 20:05
Nov 7, 2007, 20:05
 
I prefer this method over the one for Guild Wars

Really? Wow.

So you prefer a pricing model where

A) You have no idea what extra content you will get. Let's conveniently ignore the fact that you don't even know IF you will get any, and assume that Bill Roper isn't a lying jackass who's going to fold his company after trickling out his "Extra" content for 3 months, and then disappearing with the money. (If he does, I called it first!)

With Guild Wars, you can simply check. This expansion adds these two classes, these areas, these monsters, etc. That expansion adds those two classes, those areas, those monsters etc.

For example, Factions never held any appeal for me at all, but Nightfall is really cool. If I want to, I can just get Nightfall. I don't have to pay for Factions.

With Hellgate, you have no choice. You either get EVERYTHING, or you get nothing at all.
Oh, and let's also completely ignore the fact that Hellgate WILL have expansions, which you WILL have to pay normal price for. They are not included in your subscription.

2) You get a little bored with Hellgate after awhile, and stop playing and stop paying. Instantly, ALL the "extra content" you've been paying for EVERY SINGLE MONTH vanishes. Gone. You have no access to it anymore. Sucks to be you! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I stopped playing Guild Wars... I dunno, I guess 18 months or so ago. I logged back into it a few weeks ago, cause I was bored and wanted to play for a bit. Took me awhile with customer service to get my password reset, but once I got in, all my characters were still there. My stash was still there. Everything. I immediately got access to any content they'd released in that time as well.

But yes, I can see how Hellgate's model is MUCH better...

Creston

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55.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 19:57
55.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 19:57
Nov 7, 2007, 19:57
 
Your examples are flawed because Guild Wars only sells content and expansions AFTER they are created and we (the gamer) knows what we are getting. Paying in ADVANCE for content (the hellgate model) is insulting to any customer. I am not looking to fund flagship studios future endevors only purchase a simple game. All this is moot anyways, Hellgate has been a disaster for this company and they deserve every bit of it for trying to rape the PC game community.

Dude, seriously, you don't HAVE to pay in advance for content. It's not like you have to subscribe to play the game online.

You wait until there's content being offered to justify your 10 bucks a month, and you jump in. What's so horrible about that?

You know, damn near the exact same model of business is applied to the premium xbox live, and nobody complains about that. In fact, it's applauded on how to charge for "crippleware" on consoles.

But I am not allowed to make sense am I?

54.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 7, 2007, 19:46
54.
Re: No subject Nov 7, 2007, 19:46
Nov 7, 2007, 19:46
 
And that's ignoring that the scores you linked to aren't even that bad.

I'd call a 6.8 from IG fucking N pretty damn bad. I didn't even know they scaled that low, I thought everything fell between 7.6 and 10.

Creston

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