Half-Life 2 versus Mac Round II

One Million Reasons Why Half-Life 2 Isn't on the Mac (thanks Ant and Digg) is an article by IMG's Tuncer Deniz (formerly of Bungie) responding to a Kikizo Gabe Newell interview where the Valve honcho criticizes Apples commitment to gaming, saying this was the reason for no Mac Half-Life 2 port. Tuncer says the reason Half-Life 2 was not ported to MacOS was Valve's demand of a (Dr. Evil voice) one million dollar advance from the potential publisher of a Mac edition, though he seems to support Newell's point with statements like: "Apple has one or two people at the company concentrating on Mac games."
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43.
 
Re: ...
Oct 11, 2007, 04:09
43.
Re: ... Oct 11, 2007, 04:09
Oct 11, 2007, 04:09
 
Okay. Its called "Boot Camp" and I can run HL2 on my mac pro on full HD resolution on highest settings and it runs like a dream. Then, I can reboot, start in OSX and enjoy the simplicity that is mac. And, ha, I just plug in my other mouse. No one button gaming for me. So...stop whining about an HL2 mac port.

42.
 
Re: ...
Oct 9, 2007, 08:17
42.
Re: ... Oct 9, 2007, 08:17
Oct 9, 2007, 08:17
 
I still hate steam with a passion. Buuuuut. Its a faster way to get games before they arrive in our backwater country. I wasnt too happy at the download speeds though. I expected to get around 1M/s (not on a single download) but ended up with about 10k for TF2 and 500k for HL2. On a release day I can see digital distribution being a very very bad thing indeed.

PS:

>>> This inane blathering from mOOzilla has been hidden. Don’t feed the trolls! <<< Show Post

bliss!

Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
41.
 
Re: ...
Oct 9, 2007, 07:00
41.
Re: ... Oct 9, 2007, 07:00
Oct 9, 2007, 07:00
 
That's a hell of a lineup - one of the best lineups I've seen in a LONG time. Digital distribution is becoming more mainstream, enabling smaller developers to compete. Pricing is coming down - I remember buying the original Half-Life for £35 and now games cost about £25-28, without even factoring in inflation. We're seeing new technologies (widescreen monitors, physics acceleration, etc). It's funny how people continue to paint a negative picture of the industry.

WAKE UP! We're in a gaming golden age.

There's an old saying: when the enemy gains ground and you give some up, you're losing. That's exactly what we're seeing here.

That is a nice lineup, but how many of them are PC-exclusive? A good chunk of those are either on consoles already or coming to them soon. Meanwhile consoles got a ot of good (quality + selling) games as well that the PC didn't get.

Plus the stores themselves are sacrificing the PC. With few exceptions, most stores are only dedicating a small shelf or corner to PC titles and focusing on the consoles.


Don't get me wrong, I still play the occasional PC game and look forward to a whole bunch of those (Star Craft 2, Orange Box, etc) but the game industry is favoring the console more than the PC. Unless the attitudes of the publishers and retailers change, we are far from a golden age.


"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurmama
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
40.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 9, 2007, 00:29
40.
Re: No subject Oct 9, 2007, 00:29
Oct 9, 2007, 00:29
 
Can't game with 1 mouse button.

are you serious? apple stopped producing those a long time ago.

39.
 
...
Oct 8, 2007, 23:39
39.
... Oct 8, 2007, 23:39
Oct 8, 2007, 23:39
 
The gaming industry can barely scrape out a couple grade A titles every year for the PC.
This year:
Team Fortress 2 / Portal / Episode 2
Call Of Duty 4
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Unreal Tournament 3
Crysis
Bioshock
Hellgate: London
C&C3
Supreme Commander
Sam & Max Season 1
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
World In Conflict
Kane & Lynch

Next year:
Spore
Project Origin
Starcraft II
Far Cry 2
...and many more than haven't surfaced yet.

That's a hell of a lineup - one of the best lineups I've seen in a LONG time. Digital distribution is becoming more mainstream, enabling smaller developers to compete. Pricing is coming down - I remember buying the original Half-Life for £35 and now games cost about £25-28, without even factoring in inflation. We're seeing new technologies (widescreen monitors, physics acceleration, etc). It's funny how people continue to paint a negative picture of the industry.

WAKE UP! We're in a gaming golden age.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
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38.
 
Mac's, Linux, don't make me laugh
Oct 8, 2007, 23:05
38.
Mac's, Linux, don't make me laugh Oct 8, 2007, 23:05
Oct 8, 2007, 23:05
 
The gaming industry can barely scrape out a couple grade A titles every year for the PC. Watching someone argue on behalf of Apple is pure farce.

MMO's and shitty console ports: the future of PC gaming. Deal with it.

37.
 
Re: Pitty I cannot give Valve my money u
Oct 8, 2007, 16:00
37.
Re: Pitty I cannot give Valve my money u Oct 8, 2007, 16:00
Oct 8, 2007, 16:00
 
I could but I want access to the existing games I paid for.


Next.


This comment was edited on Oct 8, 16:01.
36.
 
Re: Pitty I cannot give Valve my money until
Oct 8, 2007, 13:38
36.
Re: Pitty I cannot give Valve my money until Oct 8, 2007, 13:38
Oct 8, 2007, 13:38
 
Not true, you can always just create a new Steam account to give Valve money though.

35.
 
No subject
Oct 8, 2007, 13:37
35.
No subject Oct 8, 2007, 13:37
Oct 8, 2007, 13:37
 
Can't game with 1 mouse button.

Rev. Norb: I'd just like to say that four for a dollar Tijuana tacos seemed like a good idea at the time. Please pass the toilet paper.
34.
 
Pitty I cannot give Valve my money until
Oct 8, 2007, 12:31
34.
Pitty I cannot give Valve my money until Oct 8, 2007, 12:31
Oct 8, 2007, 12:31
 
.. they reenable my Steam account.

33.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 8, 2007, 12:30
33.
Re: No subject Oct 8, 2007, 12:30
Oct 8, 2007, 12:30
 
The cheaper apple laptops with warranty typically run $300 more than a comparable Dell laptop. The macbook pros are a bit overpriced in the current market and their price gap runs around 400 bucks more than a comparable Dell. Additionally Dell has lots of hefty discount deals and we all know Apple doesnt do discounts or coupons. If you're lucky you'll get 100 bucks off the current apple retail price. Strictly for price and ignoring the issue of "OSX vs windows," PC laptops of reasonable quality including the cost of the warranty are cheaper by a few hundered bucks than apple laptops with apple care.

32.
 
"Mac gaming" is an oxymoron.
Oct 8, 2007, 12:21
32.
"Mac gaming" is an oxymoron. Oct 8, 2007, 12:21
Oct 8, 2007, 12:21
 
It is even simpler than that. Apple laptops still represent 10% of the laptop market in both the USA and globally. Its even worse with desktops since apple desktops are well under 10% market share.
Given the above, it makes no sense whatsoever to develop or even port a game for OSX unless its something HUGE like World of Warcraft.

This isnt going to chamge anytime soon. "Mac gaming" is an oxymoron.

This comment was edited on Oct 8, 12:22.
31.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 8, 2007, 11:20
31.
Re: No subject Oct 8, 2007, 11:20
Oct 8, 2007, 11:20
 
This may just be a case of people screwing Canadians then, but this is what I got when I threw them together...*shrugs*

30.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 8, 2007, 11:16
30.
Re: No subject Oct 8, 2007, 11:16
Oct 8, 2007, 11:16
 
Yeh, just specced one out too and got similar Dell price (made sure to select an Inspiron w/ C2Duo of same speed, bluetooth, integrated webcam, RAM, etc). Though a MacBook Pro specced down to the Dell was about $2,000 with a smaller HD.

Quality-wise, I put Apple laptops near the old IBM thinkpads (though not as sturdy). My experience with Dell Inspirons has been pretty bad, both from a stability and manufacturing standpoint. If I have my choice I'd never go with an Inspiron again unless I was hard-up for an value (or entry-level) laptop for like $700 for something last-minute.

Seriously, horrible experience.

As far as software, OSX has just about everything the average person needs as well as any (non-VS) developer and most other professions.

The only things it lacks are games and some specialized stuff like the Oracle XE database and maybe some architect or science software (or which there are a lot of free analogs out there).

But I can't blame anyone for not wanting a Mac so long as they are civil about it. PC-zealots spouting Apple hate speach only slightly worse than Linux-zealots spouting anti-Everything speech, Apple zealots are more of a nuisance than vitriolic. Why can't more people just say "item X is not for me, but I'm sure it has its advantages."





"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurmama

This comment was edited on Oct 8, 11:23.
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
29.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 8, 2007, 11:16
29.
Re: No subject Oct 8, 2007, 11:16
Oct 8, 2007, 11:16
 
Sorry try again.

Specced out a Dell Inspiron 1520 in the US store similar to the lower spec MBP 2.2 and the price came out to $1832, vs. $1999. Hardly the 50% or 30% price differential you claim.

And the Macs come with 1 year warranty standard.

If you are going to bash, at least get your facts straight.
You cannot make anything fool-proof. The fools are too inventive

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28.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 8, 2007, 10:24
28.
Re: No subject Oct 8, 2007, 10:24
Oct 8, 2007, 10:24
 
Do an unbiased comparison between a MacBook Pro and Dell's or Lenovo's similar offerings... I think you'll be surprised.

Well, I love this line. Okay.

Dell Inspiron, with a better video card (256M versus 128M), and with an actual year of support (versus 90 days from the Mac boys): 1,659.00 CAD

A 15" MacBook Pro with exactly the same hardware (except as noted above) 2,199.00 CAD

Okay, so 50% was an exaggeration. It's *ONLY* 30%. For worse hardware and a pretty OS that has little software for it.

I honestly wish I was biased. I loved the old Macs when they actually had different and superior hardware. Now they just have "I'm so superior" prices. =p

This comment was edited on Oct 8, 10:25.
27.
 
Endless Cycle
Oct 8, 2007, 09:51
27.
Endless Cycle Oct 8, 2007, 09:51
Oct 8, 2007, 09:51
 
It's kind reward vs cost with a mix of Catch-22

  • Apple gaming mainly stinks because there are no good games.
  • Dev houses and publishers don't want to work on Apple games because the Apple gaming market stinks
  • If someone would just get the ball rolling things would turn out OK, but is it worth it?

It's mostly cost vs reward: Apple is a relatively small market share when compared with generic PCs, so the reward is pretty small.

Plus only some of the Dev houses seem to be OK with working with OpenGL, the rest stick strictly to Direct-X so porting those DX games would cost lots of time and money. So most games out there aren't ported because they think it's worth porting a Direct-X game over to OpenGL + OS X if the benefit is so small.

Meanwhile, dev houses that like working with OpenGL tend to release games for Macs since it isn't as much work or they're just comfortable enough with OpenGL that porting is a minor issue.



"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurmama
This comment was edited on Oct 8, 09:52.
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
26.
 
...
Oct 8, 2007, 09:28
26.
... Oct 8, 2007, 09:28
Oct 8, 2007, 09:28
 
Expecting everybody that wants to game on a Mac to buy Windows is a stupid proposition and completely undermines the OSX platform. Sure it's great for compatability for the odd program but it should not be used for the majority of games or else what is even the point in buying a Mac?

So dumping 1 million to Valve for a three year old game that still has to go through a lengthy development period for conversion by a third party developer with complete over site by valve is a good investment?
I love it when people don't bother reading articles and just jump in and start trolling. Even so, with all the updates to the graphics engine since release and with TF2/CSS/DODS/Ep1/Ep2 bundled in it would be an extremely compelling product just like The Orange Box is on PC. So even for a 3yr old game a million dollars would STILL be a great deal.

It's so infuriating that Apple have put so much effort into OSX and yet completely ignored the fact it's shit for gaming.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society

Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Avatar 22891
25.
 
Re: ...
Oct 8, 2007, 07:09
25.
Re: ... Oct 8, 2007, 07:09
Oct 8, 2007, 07:09
 
Microsoft has been developing on DirectX for over a decade and it has been going from strength to strength... Apple has failed completely to even propose a potential standard or officially adopt an existing standard, like OpenGL/AL.

apple had unofficial opengl support even before pc games started to use direct x. apple also had online gaming support via ipx during the time when pc gamers were stuck playing single player doom. and they had a universal library for USB devices (plug any control device and use it without installing drivers). but that was before steve jobs came back to the fold and started rearranging the company's priority even while he professed to support gaming. thats when i gave up on mac gaming.

24.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 8, 2007, 03:05
Flo
24.
Re: No subject Oct 8, 2007, 03:05
Oct 8, 2007, 03:05
Flo
 
Gandhi, LOL.
Yea but that's students. They love their Macs until they are out of university and realize that the real world is different.
Edit: And Why the hell does my TF2 download with sub 100kb/s speeds?!


This comment was edited on Oct 8, 04:35.
Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"
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