Microsoft Fails PC Gamers?

Microsoft Fails PC Gamers on Daily Game (thanks Voodoo Extreme) offers some harsh criticism of Microsoft's Games for Windows initiative. Taking MS to task for Vista-only games, the shortcomings of the PC editions of Halo 2 and Shadowrun, and premium functionality that's free in existing applications, the article asks, with tongue-in-cheek, whether Redmond is trying to kill off PC gaming altogether. Turning to constructive criticism, the piece then offers several suggestions on how to address their complaints.
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1.
 
No subject
Jun 5, 2007, 23:44
1.
No subject Jun 5, 2007, 23:44
Jun 5, 2007, 23:44
 
Haven't read the link yet but seems to me that MS has no intention to kill off PC gaming because the profit margins are far, far higher. MS hasn't made money on the entire xbox line yet, right? Also isn't Games for Windows more about bringing xbox people to the PC, not the other way around?

True though, if a game is Vista only, it's not for Windows (XP).

Perpetual debt is slavery.
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2.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 5, 2007, 23:57
2.
Re: No subject Jun 5, 2007, 23:57
Jun 5, 2007, 23:57
 
Okay I just read most of it. Yikes. It seems to be written by a 16 year old with a very high sense of entitlement. It's just not very constructive when it's filled with smart-ass insults throughout. It's too long and the first thing it needs is a lot of removing of that. Sure the overall point is fine, to get MS' act in-gear on PC Gaming. pfft

Perpetual debt is slavery.
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3.
 
!#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again
Jun 6, 2007, 00:11
3.
!#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again Jun 6, 2007, 00:11
Jun 6, 2007, 00:11
 
Also isn't Games for Windows more about bringing xbox people to the PC, not the other way around?

No, this article actually mirrors what I have thought. I guess I should have written an article.

Microsoft's "help" isn't really helping PC gaming. Name one way that it is! It's not bringing Xbox gamers to PCs, the only difference they'll see is that they'll always lose to mouse+keyboard gamers. Maybe that's supposed to get them to buy PCs? I doubt it, MS would rather push the Xbox, which it fully controls, unlike the PC market.

MS Live? Nope. Xbox games for PCs? Definitely not. I would rather have PC-centric games, not dumbed-down console garbage like Halo 2 and Shadowrun.

What else? DX10? Yeah, thanks for making XP obsolete, MS. How about the game gallery in Vista? I'm sure kids appreciate being locked out of games by their clueless parents, and devs appreciate the fees MS charges to get a game licensed for Vista.

What Microsoft has done is split the PC gaming market between Vista and XP, and is promoting the very things that are *bad* for PC gaming, namely, dumb console ports. I hope developers don't fall for it.

Thanks for nothing, Microsoft.

This comment was edited on Jun 6, 00:15.
4.
 
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again
Jun 6, 2007, 00:36
4.
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again Jun 6, 2007, 00:36
Jun 6, 2007, 00:36
 
Offer some proof that pc gaming is dying toadeater. I read recently that PC gaming is on a significant upsurge from last year's drought. Part of this is due to the fact that the PS3 costs so much, when for just a couple hundred more dollars you get a PC, which can do much more than a PS3.

True that MS is making some mistakes but DX10 only on Vista, I can understand why. MS is trying to sell and move everyone off of XP and on to Vista for many reasons, not just for DX10. When XP came out, it was a similar situation. It was a memory hog and slower than Win98, etc..

PC gaming isn't going anywhere. There may be ups and downs, but the PC gaming market is different from the console one.

Consoles are for kids and also more for casual adult gamers. PC gamers also have casual players and there is also a smaller bleeding edge hardcore segment.

In any case, I think some of what you and the article point to are honest mistakes by MS. Some of what the article rants on about though, is his ego's complaining. The ego loves to complain because it boosts its sense of self in being 'morally superior because it is right.'

It is as it is. Calm down. I've been a PC gamer since 1984 and I assure you that PC gaming isn't going. It will change, as it always has.

Perpetual debt is slavery.
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5.
 
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again
Jun 6, 2007, 02:34
5.
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again Jun 6, 2007, 02:34
Jun 6, 2007, 02:34
 
God I hate people who eat everything without criticism...

I for one (and serveral of my friends) decided to quit PC gaming once Vista is more common (if gamers actually are so stupid and go buy it) and get a console instead.
Its a huge slap in the face by MS. They are exploiting their power and simply did many changes that arent needed. They make DX10 games Vista only, only to sell more of their POS software.
Dont get me wrong, I dont care for changes. But changes have to have a good reason. And thats not a change, thats a gun on my head "Buy Vista or you wont be able to play new games anymore". At the same time 64bit support on Vista right out SUCKS. Cool, I have to play 64bit games in 32bit on a BRAND NEW OS. WTG!
If the old AT/x86 design would have been overhauled at the same time it wouldnt have been a problem to make such an OS, but MS has to make their own thing once again, without a good reason.

And I disagree about XP being the same. I remember very well when I was still using W2k and didnt want to use XP. Not because of crappy support or games that dont run on W2k. No. Only because I simply wanted to wait until it matured out, since I loved the stability of W2k and didnt think XP would be almost as stable. And still, I really dont remember XP EVER being nearly as horrible as Vista. ME is a way better example. W2k also had game support for years and years after the XP release, hell it still has.
Thats NOT the case with Vista and XP.

Oh yeah I installed those OS on several hundred computers back in that time, so I think I know what I am talking about.
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
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6.
 
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again
Jun 6, 2007, 03:00
6.
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again Jun 6, 2007, 03:00
Jun 6, 2007, 03:00
 
I'm not sure PC gaming is dying, but two proofs that I'd offer to that side are the PC game section of Best Buy, and the PC game section at EB. Now maybe online is making up for it, but hard to know since those sales numbers aren't public.


7.
 
Re: Microsoft Does It Again
Jun 6, 2007, 04:26
7.
Re: Microsoft Does It Again Jun 6, 2007, 04:26
Jun 6, 2007, 04:26
 
It's pretty obvious gamers don't want to have a horrible os shoved down their throats, much less have a non-free notworking platform shoved along with it.
And I can understand the idea that Microsoft is hurting the pc market by doing this.

At some point, you have this kid with an xbox360 and a brand new vista pc. Which is he going to use to do gaming on? Right.

Wether microsoft is doing this to kill pc gaming intentionally, I don't think so. Gamers are the ones pushing pc technology. This enables them to output more software, and do things like the DX10 chokehold.

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8.
 
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again
Jun 6, 2007, 04:33
8.
Re: !#$*&%$!^%! Microsoft Does It Again Jun 6, 2007, 04:33
Jun 6, 2007, 04:33
 
The thing is look at the type of game software that is sold at Best Buy, then at EB/Gamestop. Best Buy (like most large retailers) carry tons of valu-crap-ware.

As for PC Gaming, honestly it is dieing, and MS is not helping with this Vista only, Games for Windows, PC/Xbox Live crap.
They took great franchises, made them Xbox only and some they dumbed down to the point it's sad. (Mechwarrior vs MechAssault for the example).
And look at Shadowrun for the 360/Vista, it's total crap. And sure lets port over a 2+year old game and then force people to upgrade to Vista just to play it.

And for someone who just recently got a 360, I have barely touched my PC except for MMO's. With top notch games like Gears of War, Forza 2, Chromehounds, Dead Rising, I'm pretty fucking happy. Then I look at my PC. For it's time it was a top notch high end rig, 2 years ago. Now I'm to the point where I'm barely holding onto being at recommended requirements for games being released.
But wait if I want to play Halo 2, or Shadowrun I need to shell out for a new rig, Vista, then on top of that Live Gold membership.

But XP is still a good PC gaming OS you say? Yeah with the wonderful amount of bug free titles the PC is getting why in the world would I ever touch a console?!? (add dripping sarcasm here)

I hate to be the one putting on the tin foil hat, but it does seem that Microsoft is trying to put a few more nails in PC Gaming Coffins. Examples would be the Games for Vista, DX10, removing stuff from Direct X to screw over one of the major sound card makers, etc.

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9.
 
No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 04:34
9.
No subject Jun 6, 2007, 04:34
Jun 6, 2007, 04:34
 
Offer some proof that pc gaming is dying toadeater. I read recently that PC gaming is on a significant upsurge from last year's drought.

New here? It's already been reported on several sites that the sales figures presented in these "PC Gaming is on the upswing" articles are unusually high because they count MMO fees.

That's the real problem. It isn't that PC gaming is dying, it's that MMORPGs are pushing out the traditional single player RPG and casuing _them_ to die.

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10.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 05:36
10.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 05:36
Jun 6, 2007, 05:36
 
Icewind, World of Warcraft is about the only saving grace right now in PC Sales.

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11.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 06:26
11.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 06:26
Jun 6, 2007, 06:26
 
Want to keep PC gaming going strong and leave MS behind? Get more developers to include Linux builds. UT2004 did this (I believe Epic has done it with other games as well). Runs great and no Windows needed.

As soon as gamers (along with developers and publishers) realize that Windows is not needed for PC gaming things will turn around. Price of a game, $50 or so. Price of a Linux distro...well, how much does a single blank CD-R cost?


Remember when PC gaming started out and the games came on floppies with their own boot discs? No OS needed (usually). It's the same idea.


Yes, I've become a Linux fanboy. Give me a good reason not to be.

---
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12.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 07:46
12.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 07:46
Jun 6, 2007, 07:46
 
I thought a good indication MS was letting gamers down was in their taking so long to port a three year old game with as much hype as when it was released.

13.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 07:49
Flo
 
13.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 07:49
Jun 6, 2007, 07:49
 Flo
 
The Idea of Microsoft's Live Service is good: Offer an integrated, functional and smooth online gaming experience. I just love the matchmaking functions of xbox live and every time I play Tiberium Wars online with a friend I wish we had something similar (CNC3 is an extreme example with it's sorry excuse of an online gaming service) , 27 000 ports , WTF!!).
The problem with Live on the PC is: It's Vista only and there are thousands of other solutions on the PC.
More damage done with cross platform play à la Shadowrun: While the game itself is really good (yes, I play it in every free minute on the 360) there is just no excuse for dumbing down the holy FPS controls on the PC.
So for now I'd be happy if every PC game had such a robust online service as Relic's Company of Heroes.
Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"
14.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 07:50
mag
14.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 07:50
Jun 6, 2007, 07:50
mag
 
Haven't read the link yet but seems to me that MS has no intention to kill off PC gaming because the profit margins are far, far higher. MS hasn't made money on the entire xbox line yet, right? Also isn't Games for Windows more about bringing xbox people to the PC, not the other way around?

Profit margins would make sense, if Microsoft actually made money off of PC games. But they do not, except for the ones they publish themselves. Devs don't pay MS a tax to produce a game for Windows. Except now I imagine they do, if they want to get into the "Games for Windows" program.

15.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 07:59
15.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 07:59
Jun 6, 2007, 07:59
 
Yes, I've become a Linux fanboy. Give me a good reason not to be.
How about this: most new games still don't have Linux executables. A large number of mods are distributed as Windows installs and are hard to install in Linux. Wine is iffy at best. Shall I go on?

Your suggestion that games (along with developers and publishers) should realize that Windows is not needed for PC gaming is a good one. However, gamers won't (and shouldn't) make that realization until the developers and publishers do first. The simple fact of the matter is that at the current time, Windows is actually needed for PC gaming. That's not going to magically change just because a lot of gamers start using Linux. The developers and publishers need to start making the switch before gamers can leave Windows behind.

16.
 
No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 09:14
16.
No subject Jun 6, 2007, 09:14
Jun 6, 2007, 09:14
 
PC gaming is killing itself. Just look at the current top ten sellers list. MMOs and sim and Sims games make me wanna hurl. Whats left for an old-school FPS gamer like myself? Nothing. New stuff for me is few and far between.

PC gaming is becoming a niche of a niche.

17.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 09:29
17.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 09:29
Jun 6, 2007, 09:29
 
Linux is borderline idiotic for a non-coding home user.



I don't get the Vista hate. I mean, I understand people not liking the mandatory DX10 issue, and disappointment in what Vista ultimately is, but this is not the next Me. Yes, there are performance issues on slightly older PCs. But there will not be with new ones. And how many of you currently have DX10 cards in your system? How many are waiting to build a new system before you bother with a DX10 card? Why not buy Vista when you build that system?

I have no intention of upgrading. Nor should I. XP is the perfect OS for my hardware. But I only have one core and I only have 2 GB of RAM. When I have more I'll want a different OS. So when I build a new PC I'll be very happy to build it around Vista.

Hate the Vista marketing with DX10, fine, but how does that reflect upon the OS itself? From what I've found most people that hate the OS either do so for the marketing, from performance on their older hardware, or due to performance issues during the beta that have since been fixed.

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18.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 6, 2007, 09:52
Prez
 
18.
Re: No subject Jun 6, 2007, 09:52
Jun 6, 2007, 09:52
 Prez
 
I thought the article was spot-on, myself...
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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19.
 
Games
Jun 6, 2007, 10:01
N
19.
Games Jun 6, 2007, 10:01
Jun 6, 2007, 10:01
N
 
Let's see, I can buy a game from a store and go through the problems of getting it to work, *AND* then I can go through trying to set up Linux executables around THAT?

SIGN ME UP!

With the patchiness and buginess of many of the games out today, I am sorry, but any sort of dedication to a platform that adds extra support steps rather than removes them is a joke.

20.
 
Vista costs everyone
Jun 6, 2007, 13:04
20.
Vista costs everyone Jun 6, 2007, 13:04
Jun 6, 2007, 13:04
 
don't get the Vista hate.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#d

DRM is not only about protecting digital media. Its about controlling everyone involved.

Vista includes various requirements for “robustness” in which the content industry, through “hardware robustness rules”, dictates design requirements to hardware manufacturers. The level of control that the content producers have over technical design details is nothing short of amazing. As security researcher Ed Felten quoted from Microsoft documents on his freedom-to-tinker web site about a year ago:

“The evidence [of security] must be presented to Hollywood and other content owners, and they must agree that it provides the required level of security. Written proof from at least three of the major Hollywood studios is required”.

So if you design a new security system, you can't get it supported in Windows Vista until well-known computer security experts like MGM, 20th Century-Fox, and Disney give you the go-ahead (this gives a whole new meaning to the term “Mickey-Mouse security”). It's absolutely astonishing to find paragraphs like this in what are supposed to be Windows technical documents, since it gives Hollywood studios veto rights over Windows security mechanisms.


The reason it takes so long to get any drivers on vista is because the amount of loop holes the manufactures have to go through to get there stuff approved. and if at ANY time your card is seen as violating the DRM rules it can be made to simply not work by the boys at MS. This add alot to the cost of new hardware and it gets passed onto you!

This comment was edited on Jun 6, 13:05.
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