This is a gaming computer and I keep it that way.

You're in the minority there. Most PC gamers use their boxes for a lot more than just gaming.

But you bypass the topic. Microsoft PC Games and Game sales in general for MS. MS makes crap off their PC Game sales.

Yeah, but they make money on every PC sold instead of losing it like they do with XBox. And most people do run other MS software on their PC, and so MS makes even more money since that software is high profit stuff. The money they make from their games, which usually do make money, is just gravy since the platform itself makes them a lot of money already. The XBox sure as hell didn't get them that 50-something billion they've got sitting in the bank.

This comment was edited on Jun 6, 16:28.

Just to toss a log on the fire where have MS PC game controllers gone? I mean other then this xbox360 thing? They bailed the PC game controller market about 2 years ago when they were messing with Longhorn. They have had this bundle up there sleeves for a long time.

Um how many microsoft products do I have on my PC... 1) the OS, nothing else. This is a gaming computer and I keep it that way. Microsoft of course makes more money from PC Software sales, with the hefty pricetag attached to their software. But you bypass the topic. Microsoft PC Games and Game sales in general for MS.
MS makes crap off their PC Game sales. With a few exceptions like the Flight Simulator Franchise, and Ages of franchise, there isn't a whole hell of alot MS offers PC wise.

As for the Xbox/360, they had Gears of War, Forza 1 and 2, Halo 1 and 2, Mech Assault, etc. And then ya throw in Xbox Live subscriptions, and the Marketplace, and they are making a good chunk of change for the console. Plus you have Halo 3 and GTA 4 coming in the fall.

DRM bullshit is the major reason I'm not going to be touching Vista any time soon.

I doubt it, MS would rather push the Xbox, which it fully controls, unlike the PC market.

Not really. Microsoft makes a hell of a lot more money from PC sales than they do from XBoxes. PC users buy Windows and usually Office as well, which are cash cows for MS. Then they may also purchase any of a number of other MS apps that actually make money too. XBoxes are anything but cash cows.

don't get the Vista hate.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#d

DRM is not only about protecting digital media. Its about controlling everyone involved.

Vista includes various requirements for “robustness” in which the content industry, through “hardware robustness rules”, dictates design requirements to hardware manufacturers. The level of control that the content producers have over technical design details is nothing short of amazing. As security researcher Ed Felten quoted from Microsoft documents on his freedom-to-tinker web site about a year ago:

“The evidence [of security] must be presented to Hollywood and other content owners, and they must agree that it provides the required level of security. Written proof from at least three of the major Hollywood studios is required”.

So if you design a new security system, you can't get it supported in Windows Vista until well-known computer security experts like MGM, 20th Century-Fox, and Disney give you the go-ahead (this gives a whole new meaning to the term “Mickey-Mouse security”). It's absolutely astonishing to find paragraphs like this in what are supposed to be Windows technical documents, since it gives Hollywood studios veto rights over Windows security mechanisms.

The reason it takes so long to get any drivers on vista is because the amount of loop holes the manufactures have to go through to get there stuff approved. and if at ANY time your card is seen as violating the DRM rules it can be made to simply not work by the boys at MS. This add alot to the cost of new hardware and it gets passed onto you!

This comment was edited on Jun 6, 13:05.

Let's see, I can buy a game from a store and go through the problems of getting it to work, *AND* then I can go through trying to set up Linux executables around THAT?

SIGN ME UP!

With the patchiness and buginess of many of the games out today, I am sorry, but any sort of dedication to a platform that adds extra support steps rather than removes them is a joke.

I thought the article was spot-on, myself...

Linux is borderline idiotic for a non-coding home user.



I don't get the Vista hate. I mean, I understand people not liking the mandatory DX10 issue, and disappointment in what Vista ultimately is, but this is not the next Me. Yes, there are performance issues on slightly older PCs. But there will not be with new ones. And how many of you currently have DX10 cards in your system? How many are waiting to build a new system before you bother with a DX10 card? Why not buy Vista when you build that system?

I have no intention of upgrading. Nor should I. XP is the perfect OS for my hardware. But I only have one core and I only have 2 GB of RAM. When I have more I'll want a different OS. So when I build a new PC I'll be very happy to build it around Vista.

Hate the Vista marketing with DX10, fine, but how does that reflect upon the OS itself? From what I've found most people that hate the OS either do so for the marketing, from performance on their older hardware, or due to performance issues during the beta that have since been fixed.

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Doomriders: the first new band worth a signature - http://www.deathwishinc.com/

PC gaming is killing itself. Just look at the current top ten sellers list. MMOs and sim and Sims games make me wanna hurl. Whats left for an old-school FPS gamer like myself? Nothing. New stuff for me is few and far between.

PC gaming is becoming a niche of a niche.

Yes, I've become a Linux fanboy. Give me a good reason not to be.

How about this: most new games still don't have Linux executables. A large number of mods are distributed as Windows installs and are hard to install in Linux. Wine is iffy at best. Shall I go on?

Your suggestion that games (along with developers and publishers) should realize that Windows is not needed for PC gaming is a good one. However, gamers won't (and shouldn't) make that realization until the developers and publishers do first. The simple fact of the matter is that at the current time, Windows is actually needed for PC gaming. That's not going to magically change just because a lot of gamers start using Linux. The developers and publishers need to start making the switch before gamers can leave Windows behind.

Haven't read the link yet but seems to me that MS has no intention to kill off PC gaming because the profit margins are far, far higher. MS hasn't made money on the entire xbox line yet, right? Also isn't Games for Windows more about bringing xbox people to the PC, not the other way around?

Profit margins would make sense, if Microsoft actually made money off of PC games. But they do not, except for the ones they publish themselves. Devs don't pay MS a tax to produce a game for Windows. Except now I imagine they do, if they want to get into the "Games for Windows" program.

The Idea of Microsoft's Live Service is good: Offer an integrated, functional and smooth online gaming experience. I just love the matchmaking functions of xbox live and every time I play Tiberium Wars online with a friend I wish we had something similar (CNC3 is an extreme example with it's sorry excuse of an online gaming service) , 27 000 ports , WTF!!).
The problem with Live on the PC is: It's Vista only and there are thousands of other solutions on the PC.
More damage done with cross platform play à la Shadowrun: While the game itself is really good (yes, I play it in every free minute on the 360) there is just no excuse for dumbing down the holy FPS controls on the PC.
So for now I'd be happy if every PC game had such a robust online service as Relic's Company of Heroes.

I thought a good indication MS was letting gamers down was in their taking so long to port a three year old game with as much hype as when it was released.

Want to keep PC gaming going strong and leave MS behind? Get more developers to include Linux builds. UT2004 did this (I believe Epic has done it with other games as well). Runs great and no Windows needed.

As soon as gamers (along with developers and publishers) realize that Windows is not needed for PC gaming things will turn around. Price of a game, $50 or so. Price of a Linux distro...well, how much does a single blank CD-R cost?


Remember when PC gaming started out and the games came on floppies with their own boot discs? No OS needed (usually). It's the same idea.


Yes, I've become a Linux fanboy. Give me a good reason not to be.

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Xfire: GreySpire
We want Blue's News T-shirts!

Icewind, World of Warcraft is about the only saving grace right now in PC Sales.

Offer some proof that pc gaming is dying toadeater. I read recently that PC gaming is on a significant upsurge from last year's drought.

New here? It's already been reported on several sites that the sales figures presented in these "PC Gaming is on the upswing" articles are unusually high because they count MMO fees.

That's the real problem. It isn't that PC gaming is dying, it's that MMORPGs are pushing out the traditional single player RPG and casuing _them_ to die.

The thing is look at the type of game software that is sold at Best Buy, then at EB/Gamestop. Best Buy (like most large retailers) carry tons of valu-crap-ware.

As for PC Gaming, honestly it is dieing, and MS is not helping with this Vista only, Games for Windows, PC/Xbox Live crap.
They took great franchises, made them Xbox only and some they dumbed down to the point it's sad. (Mechwarrior vs MechAssault for the example).
And look at Shadowrun for the 360/Vista, it's total crap. And sure lets port over a 2+year old game and then force people to upgrade to Vista just to play it.

And for someone who just recently got a 360, I have barely touched my PC except for MMO's. With top notch games like Gears of War, Forza 2, Chromehounds, Dead Rising, I'm pretty fucking happy. Then I look at my PC. For it's time it was a top notch high end rig, 2 years ago. Now I'm to the point where I'm barely holding onto being at recommended requirements for games being released.
But wait if I want to play Halo 2, or Shadowrun I need to shell out for a new rig, Vista, then on top of that Live Gold membership.

But XP is still a good PC gaming OS you say? Yeah with the wonderful amount of bug free titles the PC is getting why in the world would I ever touch a console?!? (add dripping sarcasm here)

I hate to be the one putting on the tin foil hat, but it does seem that Microsoft is trying to put a few more nails in PC Gaming Coffins. Examples would be the Games for Vista, DX10, removing stuff from Direct X to screw over one of the major sound card makers, etc.

It's pretty obvious gamers don't want to have a horrible os shoved down their throats, much less have a non-free notworking platform shoved along with it.
And I can understand the idea that Microsoft is hurting the pc market by doing this.

At some point, you have this kid with an xbox360 and a brand new vista pc. Which is he going to use to do gaming on? Right.

Wether microsoft is doing this to kill pc gaming intentionally, I don't think so. Gamers are the ones pushing pc technology. This enables them to output more software, and do things like the DX10 chokehold.

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» http://www.worldwar3.cjb.net « Updated November 16th 2005
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I'm not sure PC gaming is dying, but two proofs that I'd offer to that side are the PC game section of Best Buy, and the PC game section at EB. Now maybe online is making up for it, but hard to know since those sales numbers aren't public.