Piracy versus PC Gaming

Next Generation recaps a GDC talk titled "The Videogame Piracy Problem: Fifteen Men on a Dead Man’s Chest" by id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead about the impact of piracy on the game industry. They outline how Mr. Hollenshead says the estimated $3 billion economic loss caused by piracy in 2004 does not include piracy that takes place on the Internet. There is also an article about this talk on Joystiq that focuses on the statement that piracy is a factor in id's embrace of consoles, quoting Todd as saying "Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform." On a related note, Can PC Gaming Survive in a Console World (thanks Digg) recaps a panel discussion on the topic that brought up a similar point:
Part of the problem is piracy. Big titles get stolen by cyber thieves, and it hurts revenue. "The market," said Capps, "that would buy a $600 video card knows how Bittorrent works."

Does that mean casual games, which exponentially outsell what PC gaming traditionalists think of as A-list titles, will one day rule? Hilleman made a point: casual is a poor choice of words. The average player on EA's Pogo "casual" game network plays "for 24 hours a week. There's nothing casual about that."

There is some light in the PC gaming world. World of Warcraft, for instance, is a massive hit, and the upcoming Spore looks not only creative and different, but promising. The MMO and other social networking games could become the norm for PC gaming, with big-ticket titles growing rarer with each passing year. Johnson added that MMOs are "successful because you can't pirate WoW. You cannot pirate an MMO. Period." Therefore, he said, "game design on the PC is going to bend toward persistence."
View : : :
57.
 
Re: No subject
Mar 9, 2007, 23:18
57.
Re: No subject Mar 9, 2007, 23:18
Mar 9, 2007, 23:18
 
Lets not forget Doom3, Todd. That game was crap to begin with and deserved to be pirated

No game *deserves* to be pirated, douchebag. My paycheck comes from game development and it's a very shitty paycheck despite the fact I often work 80+ hours a week with no overtime pay, working my ass off to make content for the games I work on.

I don't live in a mansion, I don't drive a Ferrari, and I can guarantee I make less a year than you do, no matter what you do, unless you work fast food fulltime. 99.999% of game developers are not rich people. I just wanted to clear up that myth.

In reply to the people who think that id software is lying about having to go to consoles because of piracy, you're completely wrong. Here is a lesson on how the videogame industry works for a brand new independent developer with just enough kickoff money to get them started:

Publishers (EA, Ubisoft, THQ, Vivendi, Atari, Take Two, etc.) usually take the responsibility of funding the developer's entire development cycle. This is done through royalty advances -- that is, the publisher fronts the developer the money hoping the game sells at least enough copies to pay back the money they invested in the game.

Let's say the game retails @ 50$, the publisher put up 5 million dollars to fund the team of 50 people plus outsourcing costs for two years, and they sell 90,000 copies of the game. 90,000 copies is only 4.5 million dollars of revenue. After distribution, marketing, and manufacturing, the publisher will probably make back about 3 million. So the publisher lost 2 million dollars and the development team gets no money. What happens when there’s no more money coming into a business for months at a time? People get laid off.

Not only that, but the publisher is now saying "guys how come this wasn't a blockbuster we put a lot of money behind this" and they might be reluctant to work with the developer again in the future.

So then the development company has to try and find another publisher to fund its next game, only now the publishers will be wary because their last publisher took a loss by working with them.

Let's assume it's a really good game but lots of people on forums say that the ending sucks and even though it was a good game it probably could have been better because <reason X> blah blah. This gives people pause and they say "well it looks good but I wanna be sure I don't waste my money."

So they download a copy, play the game through, enjoy it, but now they have no incentive to go out and buy the game because they beat it and maybe the multiplayer mode is limited.

Let's also assume that 40,000 people downloaded it that had the means to buy it otherwise. If those 40,000 had bought the game that would have made 130,000 copies sold which pays back what it cost to make the game with no money left to keep the developer alive while they try to get another deal.

So even though the developer (the people who actually have the talent to make the game (remember to distinguish between developer and publisher)) didn't make a profit on the game, they at least sold enough copies so that the publisher didn't lose money, and therefore they’ll probably work with them again and they gain the reputation of being a reliable, moneymaking developer.

The above example illustrates the difference that 40,000 copies can make. It’s the difference between a studio living and dying and a publisher making a profit and taking a loss.

If you think 40,000 sounds high for the amount of people who could afford to buy a game but pirate it instead, 50 million people in the US alone have a broadband connection. Of those, my guess is that 1/10 of those people are smart enough to know how to pirate a game. So there’s 5 million “savvy” broadband users right there.

Why would I bother to type out such a long-winded post on Bluesnews? Because Bluesnews is a PC gaming website. I love PC gaming. I work for a developer who has made nothing but PC games. PC gamers are smarter and we get deeper games made for our platform. We read the text adventures and we played the point and clicks because they were deep, intelligent games made for deep, intelligent PC gamers.

The consequence of piracy savvy broadband users is that developers have to make cross platform games. This means no good strategy games and no good FPS games. You get weak, watered down pieces of garbage that the general public will buy anyway because they don’t know what a good FPS or strategy game is.

It’s already too late to be honest. id software is making a console game. Franchises keep getting dragged up and remade because the publishers think that name recognition is the only way to keep PC gaming alive. Think I’m lying? You’re going to laugh at how many more sequels, franchises and remakes are being made out of PC-only games from the past few years. Except they won’t be PC only this time around. We’re basically at the end of the road for new IP and franchises being made for the PC. Yes, companies like EA will occasionally throw you a new IP in the coming years, but for the most part, enjoy playing the 9th version of the game you first loved in 1995.

We keep getting rehashes not because the developer wants to do them, but because publishers don’t want to take risks on innovative PC games anymore because they lose money out the ass thanks to the very same people who truly love playing PC games.

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion was released with no copy protection and it still sold extremely well. If everyone who pirated it and could reasonably afford to buy it actually bought it, it would have probably sold double what it did and PC gaming would have had a truly mega selling game that wasn’t an MMO. We need that kind of thing to happen if you want original PC games to continue. The other alternative is that developers look elsewhere for funding which is already happening. Now you’re going to get your PC games chock full of advertisements. Look at what Threewave is doing with their whole “advergaming” thing. They’re going to make games based entirely around product placement. I don’t blame them though…if you can’t make money any other way, advertising is the last bastion of hope, but it sucks every last ounce of integrity out of the product you’re making.

I have been completely and totally 100% honest in this post, but if you still don’t believe me about the way the industry works, or the hypothetical figures I presented, here is an actual contract between an independent game developer (Spark Unlimited) and a publisher (Activision.)

http://gamasutra.com/features/20070112/spark_01.shtml


It’s very easy to justify stealing a PC game and very easy to do as well. But if you really love fun, original PC games you’re going to stop now. If it keeps up, no developer in their right mind is going to make a PC-focused game, and what a complete god damn shame that would be considering the greatness of PC gaming these past 25+ years.

This comment was edited on Mar 9, 23:25.
Date
Subject
Author
1.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
2.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
5.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
6.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
3.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
4.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
16.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
18.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
7.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
9.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
11.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
 57.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
  Re: No subject
10.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
12.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
13.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
15.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
160.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
174.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
     Re: No subject
14.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
8.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
33.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
17.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
20.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
21.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
23.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
26.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
60.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
     Re: No subject
206.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re: No subject
28.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
22.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
37.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
24.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
25.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
29.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
34.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
36.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
42.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
44.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
45.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
49.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
        Re: Am i a bad person?
50.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
         Re: Am i a bad person?
64.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
          Re: Am i a bad person?
67.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
           Re: Am i a bad person?
70.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
            Re: Am i a bad person?
53.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
         Re: Am i a bad person?
61.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
          Re: Am i a bad person?
63.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
           Re: Am i a bad person?
115.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
           Re: Am i a bad person?
68.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
          Re: Am i a bad person?
56.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
        Re: Am i a bad person?
19.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
27.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
31.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
54.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
112.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
128.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
129.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
     Re: No subject
131.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re: No subject
132.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re: No subject
133.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re: No subject
38.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
40.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
76.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
77.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
113.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
89.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
91.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
110.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
118.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
119.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
127.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
136.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
157.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
     Re: No subject
126.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
30.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
32.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
39.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
43.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
111.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
35.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
104.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
46.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
48.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
51.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
47.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
52.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
55.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
58.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
59.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
69.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
71.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
73.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
116.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
75.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
114.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
130.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
62.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
65.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
66.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
72.
Mar 9, 2007Mar 9 2007
74.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
78.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
79.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
80.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
152.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
153.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
155.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
81.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
82.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
84.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
85.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
86.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
87.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
117.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re: Pirates=Losers
88.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
90.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
92.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re: Pirates=Losers
93.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
       Re: Pirates=Losers
95.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
        Re: Pirates=Losers
97.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
         Re: Pirates=Losers
99.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
          Re: Pirates=Losers
103.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
           Re: Pirates=Losers
98.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
         Re: Pirates=Losers
100.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
          Re: Pirates=Losers
101.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
           Re: Pirates=Losers
94.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
       Re: Pirates=Losers
96.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
        Re: Pirates=Losers
83.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
102.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
105.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
106.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
107.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
109.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
120.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
121.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
122.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
123.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
124.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
125.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
134.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
135.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
137.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
108.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
138.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
139.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
140.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
141.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
158.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
159.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
161.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
162.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
163.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      What bullshit
164.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
       Re: What bullshit
167.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
       Re: What bullshit
172.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
        Re: What bullshit
173.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
         Re: What bullshit
175.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
          Re: What bullshit
194.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
           Re: What bullshit
199.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
            Re: What bullshit
200.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
             Re: What bullshit
176.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
         Re: What bullshit
183.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
          Re: What bullshit
186.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
           Re: What bullshit
179.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
142.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
143.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
144.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
145.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
147.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
148.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
146.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
149.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
150.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
151.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
154.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
156.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
171.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
165.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
166.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
168.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
169.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
177.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
178.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
182.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
188.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
189.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
193.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
195.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
198.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
213.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
208.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
298.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
299.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
301.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
305.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
306.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
        Re: Last time i checked
307.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
311.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
312.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
313.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
314.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
             Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
315.
Mar 13, 2007Mar 13 2007
              Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
316.
Mar 13, 2007Mar 13 2007
               Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
317.
Mar 13, 2007Mar 13 2007
                Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
318.
Mar 13, 2007Mar 13 2007
                 Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
319.
Mar 13, 2007Mar 13 2007
                  Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
320.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
              Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
321.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
               Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
327.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
                Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
328.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
                 Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
329.
Mar 15, 2007Mar 15 2007
                  Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
330.
Mar 15, 2007Mar 15 2007
                   Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
331.
Mar 15, 2007Mar 15 2007
                    Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
334.
Mar 16, 2007Mar 16 2007
                    Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
335.
Mar 16, 2007Mar 16 2007
                     Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
336.
Mar 16, 2007Mar 16 2007
                   Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
337.
Mar 17, 2007Mar 17 2007
                    Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
322.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
               Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
325.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
              Re: Problem with anti piracy measures
214.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
227.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
170.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
180.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
185.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
181.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
184.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
187.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
191.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
190.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
192.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
196.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
  Re: No
202.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
   Re: No
203.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
    Re: No
205.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
     Re: No
237.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re: No
238.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
       Re: No
240.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
       Re: No
197.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
201.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
204.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
218.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
207.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
219.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
 Re:
220.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
  Re:
221.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
   Re:
225.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
    Re:
228.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
     Re:
229.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
      Re:
230.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
       Re:
231.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
        Re:
232.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
         Re:
233.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
          Re:
236.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
           Re:
245.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
 Re:
247.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
  Re:
250.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
   Re:
265.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
   Re:
249.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
  Re:
251.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
   Re:
252.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
    Re:
253.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
     Re:
254.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
      Re:
256.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
       Re:
259.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
       Re:
267.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
        Re:
280.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
       Re:
263.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
    Re:
264.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
     Re:
269.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
     Re:
279.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
      Re:
282.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
       Re:
266.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
   Re:
209.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
210.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
212.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
215.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
216.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
211.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
217.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
222.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
223.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
224.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
226.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
234.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
239.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
241.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
242.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
    Re: well....
243.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
     Re: well....
244.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
     Re: well....
246.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
      Re: well....
235.
Mar 10, 2007Mar 10 2007
248.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
255.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
257.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
258.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
260.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
281.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
285.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
287.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
295.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
296.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
297.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
     Re: No subject
309.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
286.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
288.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
326.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
261.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
262.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
268.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
270.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
271.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
272.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
273.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
274.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
275.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
276.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
277.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
278.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
283.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
284.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
289.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
290.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
291.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
292.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
293.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
294.
Mar 11, 2007Mar 11 2007
     Re: No subject
300.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
302.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
303.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
304.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
308.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
310.
Mar 12, 2007Mar 12 2007
323.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
324.
Mar 14, 2007Mar 14 2007
332.
Mar 15, 2007Mar 15 2007
333.
Mar 16, 2007Mar 16 2007