Do you have any server based DVR services? (Comcast On-Demand) I'm guessing you don't, I almost never use those services because there is nothing worth watching.

We do have access to On Demand programming and we never use it. There's no need. We have TiVos full of programming we do want to watch (and are constantly behind on).

I open-mouth kissed a horse once

I think that's on YouTube, actually...

Try again!

Creston

Duh. Tell me something I don't know.

I open-mouth kissed a horse once.

the ability to watch what you want when you want it, the ability to pause, and to rewind.

Judging from the on demand content that comcast makes available to watch whenever I want... nothing could be farther from the truth. Almost everything that is "On-Demand" either has a price tag or is something from 2+ years ago.

I don't understand where your optimism is coming from on this product. Not saving content locally changes the whole game.

Do you have any server based DVR services? (Comcast On-Demand) I'm guessing you don't, I almost never use those services because there is nothing worth watching.

I don't see why you think IPTV is going to be like an on demand service from what was in the article

Because it was stated as being capable of such. Very specifically. And because otherwise you're just talking about regular old TV; the comparisons to a DVR are completely useless if you don't have basic DVR capabilities. And clearly it does.

So it's in the copyright holders best interest to make everyone watch it live and watch all the commercials rather than let ppl record it and watch it later.

No it isn't, and you're a fool if you think it is. People aren't willing to put up with the "you must be at your TV between these hours on this day" crap anymore. They want to watch what they want when they want it. You tell the IPTV provider that they can't rebroadcast your program then it means that you think you can say exactly that -- and your ratings will suffer.

Content guys ARE NOT you and me. That is the owners of the show.

Duh. Tell me something I don't know.

Controlling how much ad skipping you allow!? Why allow ANY?

Maybe they won't. And then maybe people will be so annoyed that they won't watch the show -- they'll watch shows they can skip through. And someone will realize that and allow it. Because TV isn't the only mode of entertainment out there -- not even passive entertainment. Not when you can easily get a crapload of stuff off YouTube or similar.

And The last part about copyright permissions is where this becomes very alarming because why would big shows with large audiences allow DVR recordings at all? They make more money if more ppl watch live.

Again, you're just outright wrong. They make more money if more people watch, period, end of story. The market isn't discriminating between live and replay (at least not yet), and even if it's a recording they get to demand more from sponsors, from embedded advertisers, etc. Even from regular advertisers, because some small percentage of DVR users won't skip the ads.

And I still don't think you understand the copyright bit, or what Bill Gates said in response. There's two levels of "permission" going on here, one of which he talks about in this response, another which he talks about in other responses.

And yes, the IPTV provider needs copyright permission to do server-based DVR behavior because they're actually rebroadcasting the show, and they aren't allowed to do that without a waiver. The large scale existence of OnDemand shows that this isn't horribly difficult to get though.

I don't care for server side DVR myself, but it's not some hideous evil that you make it out to be. You still get most of the DVR features that are really important -- namely, the ability to watch what you want when you want it, the ability to pause, and to rewind. You may (and probably will) lose some fast forwarding ability... but it's still a helluva lot better than just watching TV w/o any kind of DVR.

I'll be holding on to my TiVo's though.

No it doesn't. But it does mean they can more easily limit what commercials you FF through, or how much you do so. There's no reason they can't do the FF in real time on the stream -- this is already done in a lot of OnDemand type applications with far less bandwidth.

I don't see why you think IPTV is going to be like an on demand service from what was in the article. It seemed more likely that IPTV was going to try and do Live broadcast streams only. No option to record for on demand or DVR use without the permission of the copyright holders...

So it's in the copyright holders best interest to make everyone watch it live and watch all the commercials rather than let ppl record it and watch it later.

Here is the full question and answer:

Q: The content guys must be happier if nothing is going to be stored on the hard drive?
A: That’s right, it means you can insert ads that are up to date. You can control how much ad skipping you allow. And you’re less vulnerable to getting at the bits. Xbox is a very protected environment. No one is going to go and get bits on an Xbox. If they want a DVD movie, the last place you would go and get it is an Xbox. By being more secure than anything else out there, it’s pretty good. It’s really just the simplicity. You have to get permissions to do server-based DVR. You have to get the copyright owner’s permission. So it could be a hybrid for a while. For some stuff that they don’t have the rights for may be local in there. At some point in time, having more capacity would obviously make more sense. Some things you don’t have to do that way.


I bolded some of the alarming statements.

Content guys ARE NOT you and me. That is the owners of the show.

Controlling how much ad skipping you allow!? Why allow ANY?

And The last part about copyright permissions is where this becomes very alarming because why would big shows with large audiences allow DVR recordings at all? They make more money if more ppl watch live.


This comment was edited on Jan 19, 14:25.

Your quote is deeply out of context. The quote is about how a server-based DVR (e.g. -- server at the distributor's end, as opposed to local user storage) is more secure, and that you can authenticate rights to view at the time of request.

This means no ability to fastforward through commercials.

No it doesn't. But it does mean they can more easily limit what commercials you FF through, or how much you do so. There's no reason they can't do the FF in real time on the stream -- this is already done in a lot of OnDemand type applications with far less bandwidth.

if a station has to approve people recording the show for DVR purposes it's in their best interest to refuse.

Not really. It's been shown that people do get advertising content even while fast forwarding at high speed (obviously not so much if just skipping), and there's intra-show product placements that matter as well.

You have to get permissions to do server-based DVR. You have to get the copyright owner’s permission

Well that really sucks. This is talking about how IPTV will not store anything locally on the 360 so you will not record anything, you'll just get streaming content.

This means no ability to fastforward through commercials.

Good for big companies, bad for us.

Sounds like they are trying to make some DVR things available but if a station has to approve people recording the show for DVR purposes it's in their best interest to refuse.