It isn't providing solely distribution services for any other developers.

Uhh yes they do. They have publishing and distribution deals with 3rd party developers all the time.

Of course Valve doesn't have a problem with it because it profits from every one of those Red Orchestra sales.

And EA or any other company that does distribution and publishing for a 3rd party developer don't?

You never cease to amaze with your narrow minded tunnel vision idiocy. By all means keep spewing your bullshit because it really is entertaining.

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Currently playing Company of Heroes.

EA is a distributor, they are a publisher and developer too. They will publish and distribute for companies that they did not have any hand in game development. You are wrong...as usual.

You are an idiot as usual. EA is not a general distributor. EA distributes Valve's games at retail simply because Valve's products are immensely popular and EA would rather get a piece of those sales than not since those games are going to sell well regardless of what EA does with its own offerings. EA is a traditional publisher. It isn't providing solely distribution services for any other developers.

Valve doesnt seem to have a problem with this, nor does Tripwire.

LOL! Of course Valve doesn't have a problem with it because it profits from every one of those Red Orchestra sales. And, of course Tripwire doesn't have a problem because it couldn't get a real publishing deal until Valve committed to publish its game. So, a little profit is better than none from Tripwire's perspective.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 20:38.

If you have two titles on a digital distribution platform (ie Prey & HL2 on STEAM) claiming Valve has some kind of conflict of interest makes no sense given the way people approach buying games.

Of course there is a conflict of interest. Most people have a limited amount of money they are willing to spend on games and therefore won't buy every title that is released in even a specific genre like FPS games. So, Prey and Half-Life 2 are competitors because they are both competing for the same money. Because distributing its games on Steam doesn't cost Valve anything as it does other developers, Valve has a substantial monetary advantage because it can price its goods to make them more attactive while making as much or more profit than other developers using Steam. And when you add the additional benefits of being able to track your competitors' users and sales, that is a substantial sales and marketing advantage over Valve's competitors.

They would also be cutting their own throats as they draw off a percentage of the 'competitors" product sales as well.

No because the profit margins on their own goods are much higher than the margins they receive on their competitors' products. It would only be cutting their own throats if every consumer bought every available game, but they don't.

Further, they aren't monopolizing the DD business model.

I agree it's not a monopoly now, but if third-party developers don't start utilitizing the other options and make them attractive to consumers, Steam will essentially become a monopoly.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 20:21.

Direct2Drive?

IGN doesn't create or produce games like Valve does hence it doesn't not compete with the developers who use it to distribute their games.

EA's own download system?

Unlike Valve, EA is only distributing its own dogfood on its system not games from competing developers.

you just rather conveniently forgot those as well.

I did not mention them because the only one which is run by a game developer is Stardock's, and it is not that popular for third-party games.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 20:07.

What you fail to realize is that other distributers do NOT also produce games which compete with their distributed offerings like Valve does with Steam.

Hey Riley you fucking retard...EA is a distributor, they are a publisher and developer too. They will publish and distribute for companies that they did not have any hand in game development. You are wrong...as usual.

Scott Miller is a moron, and if he had any business sense at all they wouldnt still be developing Duke Nukem Forever 10 years later.

Prime example number one. Red Orchestra was released on Steam in direct competition with Day of Defeat Source and has done very well for itself. Valve doesnt seem to have a problem with this, nor does Tripwire.

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Currently playing Company of Heroes.

How does that follow? Ideally, I'm sure they'd prefer that everyone buy Valve games, as they make the most money on those. However, if someone is going to buy another company's game, I'm also sure Valve would rather they do so via Steam, where at least they make some money from it.

right, I agree. Read the entire thread.

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I am a Blues Nazi.

If it was in their best interest they'd close the platform altogether and not accept ANY 3rd party games or engines. that isn't the case.

How does that follow? Ideally, I'm sure they'd prefer that everyone buy Valve games, as they make the most money on those. However, if someone is going to buy another company's game, I'm also sure Valve would rather they do so via Steam, where at least they make some money from it.

When it comes to promotion, however, obviously Valve has the most to gain if they can convince people to buy Valve games over other titles. Again, that's how they make the most money. The only real reason they have to promote another game is to draw more people to Steam.

Evidently I wasn't specific enough. I'm talking in terms of Scotts comment. If you have two titles on a digital distribution platform (ie Prey & HL2 on STEAM) claiming Valve has some kind of conflict of interest makes no sense given the way people approach buying games. Scott seems to be implying that such a situation parallels a competitive retail situation such as the auto market. It doesn't. Gamers are going to buy whatever it is looks good to them. Claiming that Valve will somehow promote their product over a 3rd party's is a non-issue. They would also be cutting their own throats as they draw off a percentage of the 'competitors" product sales as well.

If it was in their best interest they'd close the platform altogether and not accept ANY 3rd party games or engines. that isn't the case. Further, they aren't monopolizing the DD business model. As you stated yourself there are plenty of others that are just as successful.


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I am a Blues Nazi.
This comment was edited on Nov 30, 11:47.

Otherwise he is just part of the problem, and bitching about it while he is contributing to it is not going to change anything.

LOL! Most businesses and corporations are not run like the military; where most times simply being senior in rank gives someone more weight in commanding. Miller clearly stated he wasn't in favor of the decision, but it also seemed like he wasn't in much position to kill it either. He is, afterall, only a co-owner.

What you fail to realize is that other distributers do NOT also produce games which compete with their distributed offerings like Valve does with Steam.

Direct2Drive? Stardock? EA's own download system? Xbox Live? Nintendo's Virtual Console? I'm not bashing you, but you just rather conveniently forgot those as well. The only difference I could see is that the other distribution services don't collect as detailed of data as Valve may. Though citing your example of EA's analysis team, I'm sure they're applying it just as hard to BF2/2142.

His company is all but a joke, and he's passing judgments on other companies?

I actually have some respect for Scott Miller, but it's George Broussard that can take a flying leap. I guess since GeorgyB's still in command of doing DNF (and word is still nowhere close to release), and co-owner of the company, Miller hasn't done much to antagonize him; or certainly hasn't lit the fire under his ass to get the game done.

Maybe he has, who knows? I just get the feeling if George were to leave the company or fall into some vortex, Miller wouldn't be too teary-eyed from a business sense.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 11:32.

Riley, this isn't like the auto industry where competition and product intelligence comes into play.

LOL! That statement is just so ignorant I don't know where to begin. EA probably has more employees who analyze its sales and marketing data and plan product strategies based on it than some other publishers have total employees. The video game industry has been a real, competitive business and not just some artistic endeavor for years.

there are other distribution streams and ALL will collect aggregate info on your product.

What you fail to realize is that other distributers do NOT also produce games which compete with their distributed offerings like Valve does with Steam. Also Steam collects a lot more data than just aggregate sales from its users, and all of that data is very valuable from a sales and marketing perspective whether you realize it or not. Being a distributor gives Valve a major competitive advantage over other game developers especially the ones whose games it distributes via Steam.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 09:12.

Well, I might actually agree that it's a good thing Valve not see any of 3DR's sales numbers.

The laughter that would rise up like a wall from the western United States would render the industry useless.

Riley, this isn't like the auto industry where competition and product intelligence comes into play. People buy games based on a variety of reasons, knowing sell-through numbers hardly constitutes some kind of upper-hand in their sales. Also, as I stated earlier, no one has a gun to 3DR's head, there are other distribution streams and ALL will collect aggregate info on your product. I realize you have blinders when it comes to Valve but for once in your life try to get some perspective and realize Miller just talked out of his ass.

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I am a Blues Nazi.

This game scares me. I'm a big trek fanb, but there is NO demo, and the develoeprs have made clear on their forums that they flat out refuse to make one. This so sounds like people trying to hide something.
Also, every screenshot I've seen ahs the GUi removed artificially, so all we really see are engine renders, so we have no idea how it will look or play, and in their forums, they are always talking about controlling stuff with the 'right analog stick', which just SCREAMS 'Console-port' so badly. Added to the fact that you can only play as the federation, and that there is only 4 player multiplayer, I suspect this game is dead in the water PC-wise before its even released. A pity, because I'd pay good money for a *Good* PC game.
Guess I'll wait till its £1.99 used on amazon.

Scott Miller hit the nail on the head with the fundamental flaw for third-party developers with Valve's ownership of Steam when he said "I’m not a big fan of using Steam, because I’m not a fan of a strong competitor of ours having access to our download stats and revenue totals. I’d rather keep that private. Not only that, but we’re lining their pockets as well."

Developers of games which compete with Valve's are cutting their own throats long term if they publish via Steam. They are giving Valve their market intelligence AND a piece of their sales while Valve and its products have no such burdens and disclosures. However, if Scott truely realizes that, he should put his money where his mouth is and not publish via Steam. Otherwise he is just part of the problem, and bitching about it while he is contributing to it is not going to change anything.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 01:50.

Heh, just amusing that Prey is built on an id engine (the Doom3 engine) and distributed on a Valve distribution system. Maybe the laugh project can be built on the Epic UT2007/Gears of War engine so they can combine the 4 powers and get a completed DNF?

3D realms isn't a first tier game company any longer, it's ridiculous to complain about stuff like that. They're basically a big mod company with a long history for the FPS industry. They don't have the programmers to develop their own AAA engine, and must have been running low on funds to let a dealbreaker out like they did. So...Do your job and let other people do theirs.

Scott Miller makes me laugh. His company is all but a joke, and he's passing judgments on other companies? Hahahaha.

WoW: Darsius (Earthen Ring) / GW: Denarr Trueblade / BF2: Slinky317 / CoH: Spectris (Justice)

This guy truly does need to start thinking about what 3DR is doing and not what id and Valve do.

What an idiot.

Since they’re buried in Valve, if Valve doesn’t do well for a game or two, Steam will get cut before their internal game development.

Yeah, it's a good thing they don't have an alternate revenue source like Steam to fall back on...

Oh, wait.

I try not to post in Steam related threads anymore, but this was just absolutly too funny to not mention. From Steam's homepage.

Prey will be available Thursday, November 30 on Steam for $49.95. Previous purchasers of the retail or downloaded editions of Prey can activate a copy on Steam at no cost by using their existing product key.

I guess Scott doesn't mind Steam that much.

Scott Miller should probably just shut his mouth before he puts his foot in it any further. After the Triton debacle (BTW, wheres my replacement copy of Prey?) he is the last person to make judgment calls on downloading services. I fail to see how STEAM is a conflict of interest for Valve. Stop reading shit into their business. They made a DD service for their games and opened it up as another revenue stream. Its privately owned and people are free to use any other service they wish. End of discussion.



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I am a Blues Nazi.