take my comments with a grain of salt. But I have to say, there seems more and more every day, that there's a disconnect between the more hardcore gamers like most on these forums, and the average "joe-casual" gamer. Moreover, I have begun to believe that to publishers and developers, the opinions of the hardcore gamers who post on sites like this one are irrelevant. We are no longer the market. EA is no longer selling games to us - it's selling games to less critical, less scrupulous, less angry versions of us.
Riley and Propagandhi, you should really get a room. Obviously, you two want to make out.Actually Propagandhi belongs in a padded room, and the only one he wants to make out with is Gabe Newell.
I wonder how many naysayers will secretly buy the game. I bet a lot..suckers. You feed the flame. You hate ads and things like steam, you either stop buying these big publisher games or accept it. Most will just accept for the quick fix and publishers like EA, Vivendi etc know that.
shut your valve and lets talk about EA's shit.What more is there to say? Battlefield 2142 is invasive crap, and no one should buy it.
Yeah.. sounds scary... then you actually fucking read what it is. No name's attached, merely User Y played X for X long and then quit and never played again (or whatever.)First, if the information is "distinguishable from information relating to other users" then it is ultimately personally identifiable information despite how Valve would like to define it. Is it the explicit name of the person? No, probably not, but just like the AOL search information which was recently found to be far from anonymous despite AOL's assurances, when you combine such information with other available information, identities are revealed. Second, you continue to foolishly overlook is the word "unless" which obviates the supposed restriction. If the user already provided his contact information, that could be construed as the "agreement in advance."
Nice job bolding "personally identifiable information" by the way, even though it in no way relates to anything else you bolded in that sentence.... dipshitWow, you are an imbecile. I emphasized it to clearly show that Valve collects such personally identifiable information (despite your prior denial), and that is exactly why Valve listed it in the sentence. Next time READ and THINK about what I wrote before you jerk off a reply.
Oooo, it sounds scary.. until... "If an associate of Valve is collecting such personally identifiable information within one of our products or online sites, Valve will make users aware of this at the time the information is gathered."Wow, what a restriction! Valve will post in tiny print that information is being gathered.
if providing the information is a requirement of usage, the user may decline to use that particular service or product....Oh.. so... that's not scary at all... bummer...It's a total bummer because as Valve states, sure the user can decline providing the information, BUT then the user can't use the product for which he paid. So, what Valve is telling its customers is give up your information or go to hell. Now that's good customer service!
Compare that to Vista's user policy or EA's page after page of legalese... Valve simply isn't the monster you make them out to beYes, they are all bad. That doesn't make Valve less so. It just means it has a lot of bad company.
In addition the "individual information" that Valve more willingly shares is pretty personal by its broad description.
So if a company has a contract or agreement with Valve, it can collect even personally identifiable information. The distinction between such a company and a third-party is essentially meaningless.
Studied it? It's a fuckin pseud-.net front end providing a server browser and a web interface. This isn't something one can study, it's a simple application.It is NOT simple. It is a complex piece of code that does a lot of things under the proverbial covers. The fact that you think it is simple is why you don't understand my complaints with it.
So Valve should just dump its patches on us from some ftp? Because all the other companies do that for their demos and patches.Yes providing third-party mirrors for updates provide more reliability and resiliency when Steam fails (which it has done so many times when popular games and updates are released). In addition, third-party mirror sites for updates give customers a place to turn when a game's developer or publisher fails. If I want to play any of my games from 3DO, Interplay, Acclaim, etc. today, I would be shit out of luck if those publishers had only provided updates to their games on their own "Steam" networks.
Steam provides functionality that users could obviously get from other sources, but it's convenient and allows Valve to gather data it uses to make better products. No shit the only reason Valve made it was so they could have this type of flexiblity, but given their support record (which you continue to ignore) it's reasonable to trust them.At most Steam should be OPTIONAL. Customers who like it should use it. Customers who don't like it because they don't want to be spied upon, or don't want to be forced to install updates before they can play their games, or don't want to be told they can't play their games because Steam is too busy or unavailable and yet it won't go into offline mode won't have to put up with it to use the games for which they paid.
I said that data was relevant to their function as a game company, and it fucking is! There's no denying that!I don't deny that the information has value to Valve's business. That doesn't make it less invasive or justified though.
That's what you're so fucking concerned about? The fact that Valve outsources? I work at a god damn software company that handles this type of information, if we leak it our balls are on the god damn wall...Well that is little comfort to the customers who are harmed by your actions. I am sure the many banking customers who recently had their data stolen by unscrupulous employees of Indian customer service firms are overjoyed to hear that the perpetrator was caught because their information has probably changed hands multiple times since then.
The fact that Valve even set up a registration system when WON was canned is a god damned blessing.Look you moron, WON is not gone. Sierra still runs it because a number of its games like NOLF 2 and Tribes use it. Half-Life 1 would still work with WON today if Valve had done what other game companies did with their games and allowed Internet play even if the master list server was offline. Instead, Half-Life 1 was designed so that if Valve shutdown the master list server, the game would refuse to accept clients from another subnet. Valve only shutdown WON because that was the only way to force current customers to use Steam. Up until that time a little more than half of online players wouldn't migrate even though Valve made Steam mandatory for Counterstrike 1.6. Half of the users kept running v1.5.
Good luck doing that with an EA game...With the older EA games I have, I don't have to do that. Unlike Half-Life 1, they at least support join by IP address.
Valve has no obligation to support a game this fucking hold.There is a big difference between stopping support for a game and designing a game so that when you stop supporting it, it will no longer function. Valve did that with Half-Life 1's multiplayer, and one day some games on Steam may not work at all when Valve decides to stop supporting them. The Steam EULA certainly specifies that.
Doesn't exist.. Unless you're talkin about the banner which tells you the server you're downloading fromThat's an ad. And it is not a fixed one. The URL is dynamic.
So it's trivial because it's not Valve doing it, or because there's an actual difference between what Gamespy does and what Valve does?It's the latter and you would understand that if you actually read and understood the whole damn paragraph as I mentioned the difference.
Compare their policy line by line with every other on the internet and there's ZERO fuckin difference.Valve is no less guilty just because they have company in their actions.
Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance.That statement is meaningless and toothless not only by the "unless" but also since...
Like I said, you blame the publisher, that's fine. I don't share that opinion.
No, but unlike you I have actually studied it enough from a technical perspective to know that it is.
My point is that consumers already have web browsers.
Steam does nothing, but allow Valve to easily collect data from its customers every time they want to play their games and try to sell the additional crapware on Steam to them.
See, there you go again from one extreme to another. Either Valve is collecting everything or Valve is collecting nothing. Just because I strongly think based upon the evidence that Valve is collecting more data than it has publicly disclosed doesn't mean that I think that Valve is collecting anything and everything. However, it also certainly doesn't mean that what I believe Valve is collecting is justified.
All of Valve's patches for its older games post Steam have been due to problems with Steam. So, that is certainly nothing above and beyond what Valve should do since it replaced all of its older games with Steam versions.
Steam has popup ad banners when launched
small ad banner on the download window
Gamespy can't collect the same data unless it is integrated into the game to do so. With most games it isn't. Gamespy Arcade does collect and track some useage statistics of its users in terms of how many times they have frequently a game's lobby on the system, but that is trivial compared to the types of data that can be gathered from users during gameplay and associated with purchase and demographic information that Steam can collect.
Steam has data collection and tracking even when you play its games in single-player mode. Where do you think Valve's is getting the data to put together its stats ( http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats )? So, Steam definitely one-up's EA's in that department which is multiplayer only. And, an additional nice thing about Steam's tracking is that since it is a also a purchasing system, the data collection and tracking is even less anonymous than EA's
IT'S CALLED A JOKE. MAYBE IF YOU DIDN'T WASTE ALL YOUR TIME POSTING 15 TIMES IN A ROW YOU MIGHT GAIN A SENSE OF HUMOR.Maybe if you actually spent more time on your posts, you'd learn how to really write a joke.