Which is funny, because that's exactly what Oblivion forces you to do

Almost, except in the first Gothic, that was the only way to attack at all. In Oblivion, you only have to do that for the special attacks.

Console sale's numbers include the massive it not majority of sales to Rental Agencies like Blockbuster [or whatever].
Imo, while not a scientic study I beleive as much as 40% of the numbers are conflated in this way,
If PC games had as wide of Rental and actual Shelf Space, currently PC titles get about 20% Shelf Space at most(?) it would be a much different story.

Diablo, WoW, HL2, the Sims ... their sales numbers all squarely beat the shit out of any console game

Apart from the Sims, not really. (though WoW is coming into rarified territory).

None of these games are even CLOSE to the sales numbers of GTA3 for example. But that's not really the argument. Ofcourse the PC has games that sell well.

The typical argument is that an average console game sells ten times as many copies as an average PC game. A PC game that sells 200,000 copies is considered to be fairly succesfull. A console game that sells 200,000 copies is an unmitigated disaster. The avg console game (not talking about the brutal turds, just the average shovelware) sells around half a million copies.
Deus Ex plus all the Thiefs combined didn't sell that many

What's the largest selling console title? 8 million units?

Try around 50 million for the 3 GTAs. And since we're counting the Sims + 8 expansions, I think it's fair to count GTA as a total too.
And yes, the mario games have sold 30 or 40 million. Madden sells around 7 to 8 million EACH DAMN YEAR, etc. There really is no comparing the two markets.

Note, I'm not saying anything about comparative quality, just pure sales numbers. Console market = 10x PC market.

Creston

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 18:10.

but it will squash Oblivion quality-wise . There's absolutely no doubt about it. I've watched hours of beta footage and GC presentations. G3 is going to pwn Oblivion on every level except graphics.

I think people are being rather overly harsh on Oblivion. Yes, the levelling of monsters and loot sucks, but other than that it's a rock solid game, and I'm absolutely shocked that the BAFTA didn't even mention it in their game of the year list.

If you play Oblivion with OOO 1.3 it's one of the finest gaming experiences you can have.

Not to say that Gothic 3 might not be better, but saying that it will absolutely destroy Oblivion is just setting yourself up for a HUMONGOUS disappointment. I seriously doubt that Gothic 3 is going to bring a rainbow full of joy right into your room.

Creston

And a later that included it and Duck Hunt.

Which is the one I got. Didn't fall for the bazooka for the snes though

Wow. But that can't be standalone SMB cartridge sales...

Well, there was one run of the NES that included that cart. And a later that included it and Duck Hunt.

So that may be part of it...

-----------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 16 W/Mo

http://www.richardcheese.com/ http://www.myspace.com/richardcheese

Wow. But that can't be standalone SMB cartridge sales...that must include all-stars, compilations, snes re-releases et al...mustn't it?

As an aside, anyone know where to find actual sales numbers for games? Not just top ten seller lists, but actual units sold up to this date?

What's the largest selling console title? 8 million units?

I think Mario (nes) or Tetris (gb) sold like 40 million...saw that on Kotaku the other day...

edit:
Here ya go:
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/tag/this-day-in-gaming-september-13th-200250.php


-----------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 16 W/Mo

http://www.richardcheese.com/ http://www.myspace.com/richardcheese
This comment was edited on Sep 14, 12:17.

True...but same goes for the converse; you can't compare a shitselling console game with a AAA pc game; you have to compare like with like; top selling console game with top selling pc game. And there I'd say that the pc wins hands down. Hell, even WoW (an MMORPG, thus nearly by definition niche title despite it's sales numbers) sold 7 million titles...and I don't want to think about how many units the Sims sold. What's the largest selling console title? 8 million units?

Arbeiten Sie fur PB, oder?

IIRC, they were called the hashashimi IRL; they lived in a citadel with gardens and dates and women and the hashish convinced them they were already in heaven. Then, every so often, they had to go out and assasinate people, with the lure of their heaven pulling them back to the citadel. Real life is stranger than fiction.

Just gotta interject there...Diablo, WoW, HL2, the Sims....their sales numbers all squarely beat the shit out of any console game.

But those you mentioned are exceptions to the rule. If you're going to list those games, you need to comapre them to console heavy hitters like Mario and Halo.



-----------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 16 W/Mo

http://www.richardcheese.com/ http://www.myspace.com/richardcheese

orced you to hold down the attack button, then press different arrow keys to perform different attacks

Which is funny, because that's exactly what Oblivion forces you to do

Just gotta interject there...Diablo, WoW, HL2, the Sims....their sales numbers all squarely beat the shit out of any console game. The PC platform isn't dead, or dying, or unprofitable or stagnant or not selling well...or even an underdog except in gaming 'journalists' minds (much to say about them, but look at the recent penny arcade editorials for the latest).

...and there's even an old controll style preset. So, I guess that's a sale, wtf man?

Ok the only thing I think NWN2 has over Gothic is the Coop.
Coop ranks very very high with me, I will even put up with crapy conditions to get a Coop game going like the nefarious Dungeon Lords.
One thing agaisnt NWN2 is Obsidian's annoying incorrect policy of no injoke humor in their games, which really pisses me off.

I will probably get both but Gothic wins hands down.

"Didnt Gothic2 expansion remain german for like a full year before the english version was completed?"
Yes.
"Something about publisher problems.
Yes
"Am I wrong about this?"
No

Yet that was quite a while ago are you asking what happened or are you asking if everything is ok now?
If so everything is ok now, buy Gothic Gold for under $20 US and have fun if your intrested.
If not I am not sure what I am misunderstanding?
Gothic Gold gives you everything Gothic 2 and NotR in English it is a US release, as mentioned in the thread if you are new to Gothic don't install NotR on your first play through it is too hard for beginners, well unless you set the difficulty with the link I posted.

one are you getting? Gothic 3? NWN2? Both?

I'd be getting G3, because:

1)I'm just finishing G2 and think it's one of the best RPG's I've ever played.

2)I have NWN still sitting on my computer after over a year, I'm still on the last quadrant of the city near the beggining. Just can't seem to bring myself to load it up.

I understand that the SP campaign is supposed to be crap and I should go download a bunch of mods, but just haven't gotten around to it.

I'll probably get NWN2 sometime next year.

"If NWN2 and Gothic 3 come out within a week of each other (as it looks like it will, since publishers are still the same old fucking retards that they've always been,) which one are you getting? Gothic 3? NWN2? Both?"

I originally had no intention of buying NWN2 and I still may hold off a while. I Just picked up CoH and it's the best RTS in a long while in my opinion. I Would pick G3 over NWN2. Though I haven't been following either very closely.

I loved G2 though it took me three attempts over a years time to get into it enough to work past the control scheme. It isn't bad after you get used to it it's just not as easy as most game to play or to learn how to play. It is extremely rewarding though if you take the time.

That is why I would pick G3 over NWN2. I bought NWN and the two expansions but never finished any of them. I had a good time playing them but not enough to finish any of them.

I spent more time trying to making a mod I never released and playing persistent worlds than the OC or the add-ons.

If G3 is of the same quality as G2 they may finally break into the NA market and maybe even get some of the casual gamers to bite. Still slightly disappointing that they are not having a world wide release but it would be difficult at best.

My guess is the NA release will most likely be the exact same game as the UK release. SO GoGamer will get my money for a UK Import. And I will most likely have the game two weeks after the UK release (worse case scenario).

D4rkKnight
Not sure what yoru refering to but the Gothic Gold we are speaking of is the US version and the just announced Gothic 3 will be in English but it is the UK English version releasing on 10/12, the US English version is not due for another 30 after that as I understand it.
All Gothic games come in English.

Didnt Gothic2 expansion remain german for like a full year before the english version was completed? Something about publisher problems. Am I wrong about this?

This comment was edited on Sep 13, 23:09.