one-hit-wonders and these constructed artists, designed to sell might dissappear (like those boybands with selected members etc.)

You're kidding yourself. Seriously.

You think that those one-hit-wonders don't have a career outside of that one-hit? They've all been doing the band circuit for years, sometimes decades, before that one-hit. And they continue to do so afterwards. You're going to have more of that kind of "noise", not less.

As for the constructed bands -- they're not going away either. You think they don't make money hand over fist at concerts? Through promotional tie-ins, etc.? And since you seem to think that this is how all bands should make their money (and, frankly, it already <i>is</i> how most bands make their money -- we all know that the studios screw the bands over with the contracts, esp. now that the artist doesn't own their own songs), do you think it's going to become any less?

Look, if the market wasn't interested in it then it wouldn't sell. Advertising can only twist things so much.

perhaps more people would cooperate and create better OSS ones [...] perhaps with less.. fluff.. and less sequels..

I doubt it. Have you seriously looked at most of the OSS games out there? Or even the small indie games? Yeah, there's some innovation, but there's a lot of derivative crap. And if an indie publisher has a "hit" (relatively speaking; but this is the level you seem to think things should operate at) then what do they do? Produce more of the same.

Heck, look at the shareware market back in the late 80s/early 90s. Where companies like id and Apogee came from. How many sequels to Commander Keen were there?

I'm all for a shakeup in the industry, but I don't think you've thought things through either. And you still haven't answered why you think copyright violation is perfectly fine.


And, finally, to Bill Nakano -- what industry would that be? Porn? Since even if you're a massive musical hit you can't retire after a "couple of years". Most of the money you get from the record labels is a loan... with rates and terms that would make the Mafia flinch. You don't even get to own your own music anymore -- not since the mid-90s when a rider on a bill changed performance art into "work for hire" which means that the studio retains all rights.

This comment was edited on Jun 1, 10:23.

Peer review will sort out decent music from the "noise". Music should just be advertising to get you into the concert. How many of us do a job where we can expect to do a couple of years of decent work and retire on the proceeds?

I dont condone piracy, I buy my games - I go to the movies ALOT...but I will download a bootleg flick I saw in the theater the night before just to re-watch some key scenes, then delete it and rent the DVD after release....Music on the other hand has been in need of a shake up for a long
time. I dont get too upset when I read a band like Aerosmith complain "our catalogue used to be worth millions-now its worth $20.00" because the old way of controling music distribution is DEAD. It favored the "suits" not the bands nor the fans...what the new buisiness model will look like is still up in the air, we are in a painful transition stage (but music will find a way)...Digital recording has made its way into the home studio with execeptional quality now, as has burning discs and internet distribution- so eventually it should evolve into something that works for the artists(DIY)
The smartest motherfucker on the planet must be David Bowie...he sold his catalogue as a stock for future revenue speculation and made a TON of money up-front just before the download revolution!

PS: I find it unusual that Pirate Bay goes down right after NewNova was down for a while (could the enemy have taken over the sites and are logging you IP's for the next big round up? :0

This comment was edited on May 31, 21:49.

People would still make games if there were no copyright laws, they'd just be way crappier.

And you somehow think that this is going to make it easier for bands to noticed? The signal to noise ratio just went through the floor.

Perhaps not easier, but more fair.. Everyone would be on the same grounds, and one-hit-wonders and these constructed artists, designed to sell might dissappear (like those boybands with selected members etc.) Thats the kind of noise I'm talking about

The OSS engines are used for how many games? If they're that great, why would a company pay id or Epic such large sums of money to license their engine instead of using the OSS ones? They're simply not on the same level of quality or developer support.

Again, If piracy is to "take over" and nobody makes money making engines like that, the whole sitiuation would be different, If you didnt have proffesional engines or games, then perhaps more people would cooperate and create better OSS ones? it sure would be a very different industry, probably alot smaller than now, but perhaps with less.. fluff.. and less sequels..

Got you to read it, didn't they?

Yeah....I guess my reading skills are just so leet I can read on short sentence "mark wahlberg likes the zoo" in the time it takes me to go click delete.

Did you know that 1 lb of yummy delicious ripe strawberries only has 146 calories,36g carbs, 9g fiber,3g protein,1g fat and 475% daily Vit.C? 1 Snickers bar has 280 calories,35g carbs,14g fat.Eat strawberries!
http://www.frappr.com/bluesnewsmembers

I do not even know what to say to that kind of spam and how stupid people are

Got you to read it, didn't they?



There will come a moment when you have the chance to do the right thing.

I love those moments. I like to wave at them as they pass by.

i would imagine simple economics would dictate that. Advertising costs money, beyond word of mouth, replacing your instruments, day to day expenses; all the stuff that goes with running a band.

Well,without the possiblity of huge record sales, no bands/labels would be spending millions advertising, and if everyone relied on word of mouth, playing live etc, then perhaps it would be a more fair market than now, I actually know people who are hard-working band members for like 10+ years, and income comes from touring and gigs, not record sales, as the record companies and retailers and studio expences take most of that money anyway..

With the digital age, Recording becomes cheaper, global distribution becomes free, and word of mouth can spread globally like wildfire. Artists needs to use this to their advantage.

Apparently Hollywood actor Mark Wahlberg likes to go to the zoo.
That is, according to the spam e-mail I just got that made it through my filters.
I mean, there is not even a LINK, or a mention of ANY kind of product in this e-mail.

I mean…god….I do not even know what to say to that kind of spam and how stupid people are


Did you know that 1 lb of yummy delicious ripe strawberries only has 146 calories,36g carbs, 9g fiber,3g protein,1g fat and 475% daily Vit.C? 1 Snickers bar has 280 calories,35g carbs,14g fat.Eat strawberries!
http://www.frappr.com/bluesnewsmembers

I was talking about the DVD example he responded to,but it came out wrong

I know. I just had to make fun of you (and am going to again in the next quote and response)!

I meant watching a dvd over at a friends house, without any wierd gay-related activities or fetishes of any kind, NotThatTheresAnythingWrongWithThat(tm).

So wait. You are saying it is wrong to pirate all DVD's except the ones with weird gay-related activities or fetishes of any kind?




Did you know that 1 lb of yummy delicious ripe strawberries only has 146 calories,36g carbs, 9g fiber,3g protein,1g fat and 475% daily Vit.C? 1 Snickers bar has 280 calories,35g carbs,14g fat.Eat strawberries!
http://www.frappr.com/bluesnewsmembers

So if I watch it at my friends house with him, its piracy then?

Are you just intentionally asking silly questions? Honestly.

Of course not -- although depending on the laws where you live, playing in front of more than your immediate family and friends could constitute a copyright violation (not that you're likely to get prosecuted for that unless you do something silly like run a theater playing released-to-video movies using DVDs as your source).

The point being, there's only one copy in use, even at your friend's house. What part of the book analogy did you not understand?

if they fail to break through, is it because they dont have a big corporation/money backing them, or is it because they are fighting against hundreds of other artists that do?

You're putting the cart before the horse. The record labels did not come into existence before the artists. If you get rid of them then how are the thousands of local bands that want to get a bigger audience going to do it? Yes, online music trading (*cough*radio*cough*), word of mouth (*cough*advertising*cough*), playing gigs (wow, there's a revolution), etc. It's all the same old shit, except that now the barriers to entry have been virtually eliminated. It no longer costs tens of thousands of dollars to get professional studio time. Promotion online is low cost. And you somehow think that this is going to make it easier for bands to noticed? The signal to noise ratio just went through the floor.

There are also opensource engines out there, id software even releases their sources

The OSS engines are used for how many games? If they're that great, why would a company pay id or Epic such large sums of money to license their engine instead of using the OSS ones? They're simply not on the same level of quality or developer support.

And id only open sources their engine long after its financial value is gone. I applaud them for doing so, and I wish more companies would do the same, but you ignore the minor issue that they can afford to do this because they've already sold millions of dollars of product (both through game sales and engine licenses).

besides there are other ways of securing income, like subscriptions, donations or marketing

Sure, and I'm all for investigating that. But I don't see how that gives anyone the excuse for violating copyright. If you want to watch a movie, then buy/rent/borrow it. Ditto for software (or find a free alternative). Using it without paying is just lame. And that's what it all boils down to.

And no, I don't think that stuff like what Mr. Lolicon did is wrong. In fact, I have significant issues with companies claiming that you are "licensing" (instead of owning) a copy of the software and then not taking responsibility for replacing that "licensed" copy should something bad occur. And then there's the question of abandonware...

Of course, I also think the copyright laws are completely and utterly out of control. Particularly term length. I'd be much more supportive of a vastly shorter copyright term (maybe 20-25 years) with increasingly expensive short-term renewals (if it's still valuable, renew it) with a hard limit of 2-3x the initial term. It's not perfect, and there might need to be some additional tweaks (particularly regarding derivative works), but it's a helluva lot better than the absurd situation we're in now.

I don't imagine they make professional game engines in their full time. If that engine hadn't come out, would the mod exist?

The question would be: If piracy had complete control, and nobody ever bought games, would the engine exist? would anyone make 3D applications or games? would there be large open-source projects aiming to create the ultimate 3d game engine? Who knows..

As I said, I truly mean that people should get paid for their work, but donations etc would probably go a long way, perhaps you cant finance a global billion-dollar corporation or anything like that, but perhaps make a fair living. Things doesnt always get better by adding millions of $ into it, infact, I'd say on many points it gets worse, we all end up in sequels and franchise hell

Try seeing it the other way around. WHY do bands today need to "sell out"?

i would imagine simple economics would dictate that. Advertising costs money, beyond word of mouth, replacing your instruments, day to day expenses; all the stuff that goes with running a band. Believe me, I'm all for the people who are unknowns, or relatively so, to be able to get their music out in the open wiht as little cost as possible. Just that sometimes the reality of economics gets in the way.

If you enjoy watching your friend read a book* then you need help and should legally be allowed to pirate anything to try and get a life!

*Unless you friend is a hot chick and it is a book that will make her touch herself.

I was talking about the DVD example he responded to,but it came out wrong I meant watching a dvd over at a friends house, without any wierd gay-related activities or fetishes of any kind, NotThatTheresAnythingWrongWithThat(tm).

This comment was edited on May 31, 16:38.

It's the old book analogy -- if you have the book, he can't read it at the same time. If he photocopies the book, then that's no longer true.

With digital media, the cost of that photocopy is approximitely nothing.

So if I watch it at my friends house with him, its piracy then?

If you enjoy watching your friend read a book* then you need help and should legally be allowed to pirate anything to try and get a life!

*Unless you friend is a hot chick and it is a book that will make her touch herself.


Did you know that 1 lb of yummy delicious ripe strawberries only has 146 calories,36g carbs, 9g fiber,3g protein,1g fat and 475% daily Vit.C? 1 Snickers bar has 280 calories,35g carbs,14g fat.Eat strawberries!
http://www.frappr.com/bluesnewsmembers

Anyway, has anyone seen those Miller Man Law commercials? Fucking funny.

I've seen a couple and really enjoy them. Don't watch too much TV, though.

Still waiting to see who the next coach of the Sacramento Kings will be - hopefully someone other than the current WNBA coach of the Sacramento Monarchs. As someone stated in the KingsFans.com forums, when the Kings wear the gold alternate uniforms I can just hear the "Golden Girls"/Queens chants starting....




There will come a moment when you have the chance to do the right thing.

I love those moments. I like to wave at them as they pass by.


This comment was edited on May 31, 16:11.

It's the old book analogy -- if you have the book, he can't read it at the same time. If he photocopies the book, then that's no longer true.

With digital media, the cost of that photocopy is approximitely nothing.

So if I watch it at my friends house with him, its piracy then?

This comment was edited on May 31, 16:10.

That's more a matter of choice than most people give credit. If your band decides not "to sell out" to the big corps and be successful on the local circuit, they have every right to do so. But if they want to get their music out to a wider audience, there's the route you have to take for that, too. You don't have to, but it's nice to have that backing.

Try seeing it the other way around. WHY do bands today need to "sell out"?

To break through all the noise of all the other bands already being pushed by major labels, thats why. In the future all that noise might not be there, instead musicians will build their band on actual fans, instead of people who bought it because of a TV-ad...

*checks e-mail to see if anyone responded to his musician/band/gig ad...*

Nope... not yet, anyway.

Anywho, as far as piracy is concerned, eh. Feel free to download my tracks, comment, make suggestions, pass it on, etc. If that gets me places initially, then it's fine with me. I'd feel more comfortable playing on the "local circuit" getting a larger cut vs. seeing mere fractions of a penny for every $10 through a megacorp, personally.

...I just have to get enough material together to put on a show.

Dan =0)


You can help me save the Earth from a terrible experience... yes, the whole Earth.
Self-plug: http://www.dankupka.com
Self-plug #2: http://blog.myspace.com/dankupkamusic
This comment was edited on May 31, 16:03.

While its true they had the engine, its also a fact that they made the mod in their spare time..

A mod built on that engine. And even though it was made in their spare time, I don't imagine they make professional game engines in their full time. If that engine hadn't come out, would the mod exist? Maybe they would've went with the equivalent.

Also, alot of bands have built their reputation not on deals with sony or whatever, but on playing concerts, word of mouth and infact pirating, such as all the kids copying of metallica or maiden cassettes back in the day.

That's more a matter of choice than most people give credit. If your band decides not "to sell out" to the big corps and be successful on the local circuit, they have every right to do so. But if they want to get their music out to a wider audience, there's the route you have to take for that, too. You don't have to, but it's nice to have that backing.