I agree that it takes so much time to create content for modern games that mods of large scope will become rare if not nonexistent. However, I don't see the death of mods completely.

Ah. Then you and I agree. And so would John Carmack, if he were here

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Dig six feet, find three bodies. But dig twelve feet, you find forty.

But even then I suspect portfolios of your individual animations / models / levels / etc will be the way forward.

I don't see that in contradiction with creating a game mod though. Releasing it as a mod gets it more exposure, and gets it tested where the content can be improved from feedback.

I agree that it takes so much time to create content for modern games that mods of large scope will become rare if not nonexistent. However, I don't see the death of mods completely.

This comment was edited on May 11, 16:00.

That flies directly into the face of comments Epic staff have made about UT2007. I think you are off your rocker on that one.

Well I'm just quoting what John Carmack said recently http://tinyurl.com/quzoo... here's the important bit:

Q14: Do you think that the MegaTexture technology will be accessible to mod teams?

Answer: It doesn’t help them. In general, all the technology progress has been essentially reducing the ability of a mod team to do something significant and competitive. We’ve certainly seen this over the last 10 years, where, in the early days of somebody messing with DOOM or QUAKE, you could take essentially a pure concept idea, put it in, and see how the game play evolved there. But doing a mod now, if you’re making new models, new animation, you essentially need to be a game studio doing something for free to do something that’s going to be the significant equivalent. Anything like this that allows more media effort to be spent, probably does not help the mods.

I have read other interviews with other developers (and can't be bothered to go looking for them :)) which suggest the same thing. I take your point about a lot of devs coming from the mod community, but you have to admit, as content becomes more and more costly to create, it becomes less and less likely that people will do it for free. The only reason why you might is in the hope you get picked up by a company like Valve (CS, Ricochet, etc.) or as a springboard into video game development as a profession. But even then I suspect portfolios of your individual animations / models / levels / etc will be the way forward. It's just a hunch.

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Dig six feet, find three bodies. But dig twelve feet, you find forty.

Read interviews with ...Sweeney etc. and they all seem to say the same thing. They're not building games to be moddable because they know not many teams will be able to do anything worthwhile.

That flies directly into the face of comments Epic staff have made about UT2007. I think you are off your rocker on that one. The PC game industry owes much of its talent pool to modders, and they are not about to shun that cheap form of workforce training.

This comment was edited on May 10, 15:27.

I read all the postings and NONE say anything like this. Try "reading" posts before making statements. Everyone is talking about Microsoft, Live, Vista, and this Massive purchase they recently procured.

WTF is your problem asshole?

Give me an XBOX360 + mouse & keyboard, and i'd never use the PC for gaming again.

You must be blind and stupid.

And once again, no one is putting Microsoft's recent buyout of an online ad company and their online strategy together.

Do you people even READ these forums? I already noted this two pages ago...

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=67206&boardid=1&id=&view=flatnew&start=40

post #17


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more free music: http://music.download.com/kxmode

Let's try and steer away from the whole Console vs PC thing for now; we all have our preferences for myriad reasons.

I read all the postings and NONE say anything like this. Try "reading" posts before making statements. Everyone is talking about Microsoft, Live, Vista, and this Massive purchase they recently procured.

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latest track: http://www.kxmode.com/media/music/kXmode-Fallen_refresh.mp3
more free music: http://music.download.com/kxmode

Well, this *is* Microsoft. Other then patches, I don't know of anything they give away for free.

Blue Screen of Death is free. Comes standard on all versions of Windows.


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latest track: http://www.kxmode.com/media/music/kXmode-Fallen_refresh.mp3
more free music: http://music.download.com/kxmode

This comment was edited on May 10, 14:36.

I'm worried what kind of impact this is going to have on the mod community...

I think this isn't the mod community's biggest worry. Unfortunately I think the writing is on the wall for 90% of mods. It's simply becoming too costly to develop content for modern game engines, and this is being reflected in less willingness to make games designed to be modded. Read interviews with Carmack, Sweeney etc. and they all seem to say the same thing. They're not building games to be moddable because they know not many teams will be able to do anything worthwhile.

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Dig six feet, find three bodies. But dig twelve feet, you find forty.

For one, users are used to things being free on PCs. They aren't on consoles. So no one will bother buying the pay games on the PC.

People will buy the game anyway because they want to play the game. Half-Life 2 proved that with Steam. Plus, the average game buyer won't look at the price of Microsoft's service as part of the game's price because it is a separate fee and applies to more than just the one game.

Microsoft can create a pay service if they like (they won't), PC gamers will find ways around it. They always have. Won and Steam haven't fully prevented people from playing the Half Life games in the way they see best.

There are also ways to play an XBOX online for free as well, but they are dwarfed by the numbers of players on XBOX Live. And, yes, the last time I checked months ago, you could still play Half-Life on WON if you hacked the game, but how many other people are going to be there to join you? Damn few if any.

This comment was edited on May 10, 12:10.

Just like XBOX Live, you can be sure that users will have to pay to play online. Messaging will most likely be free like on XBOX Live. If developers build a game around XBOX Live for multiplayer, users will pay or they won't play. It's that simple.

100% incorrect.

For one, users are used to things being free on PCs. They aren't on consoles. So no one will bother buying the pay games on the PC.
For another, PC gamers have much more control over their systems. Microsoft can create a pay service if they like (they won't), PC gamers will find ways around it. They always have. Won and Steam haven't fully prevented people from playing the Half Life games in the way they see best.

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Doomriders: the first new band worth a signature - http://www.deathwishinc.com/

And since there's HUGELY INVASIVE ADS right here on Blue's News, would everyone who says they have a problem with ads please ridicule themselves?

The ads on this site can be blocked. I actually have no ads when I view Blue's News nor am I tracked by those ad servers. With Microsoft's service that most likely won't be possible because it will all be coming from the same network. If you block the ads and tracking you will block the service too.

This comment was edited on May 10, 10:34.

Yeah, we have STEAM now!

Microsoft's Live is not looking so bad now.

Its getting bad when setting up IRQ and DMA settings for your soundcard and making sure you had enough base memory in DOS seems easy compared to the stuff you need to get games working reasonably today.

You have got to be kidding. What the hell is so freaking hard about creating a Gamespy user account? I have had the same one for at least seven or eight years. Plus, many if not most Gamespy games don't require a Gamespy account to play them.

This comment was edited on May 10, 11:52.

See, that's where the problem lies. If j.random sysadmin can set up a server, you can run a server with all kinds of game mods. Live will not allow this (if only just to maintain parity with x360 players who cant use player made mods). Live is the death of modding.

MSFT knows damn well no PC gamer will pay for this. As such, I can guarantee it will be free on the PC. Perhaps there will be bonus features to pay for, but Microsoft will not try to make you pay for something everyone else is giving for free. They know it won't fly.

Just like XBOX Live, you can be sure that users will have to pay to play online. Messaging will most likely be free like on XBOX Live. If developers build a game around XBOX Live for multiplayer, users will pay or they won't play. It's that simple.

This comment was edited on May 10, 10:26.

Morrowind's official mods were totaly free. Then came Oblivion, where xbox360 users had to pay for offical mods....and so did the pc players. And we're talking small mods here.

I rest my case.

Obviously if people have to pay monthly like they do for Live, they would screw themselves over and no game company would go for it..

Just notice how developers didn't go for it on the XBOX. LOL!

Truth of the matter is when the dust settles and Vista, Live, and 360 are running at full strength Microsoft will have one of the largest cross-platform advertising vehicles ever created. From a PC gamer perspective this really worries me. Microsoft has it in their power to either support or kill the PC gaming community. I really hope they continue to support us but as it is now and not some sort of advertising monstrosity.

I agree, I just cant help myself to think there is a market for opengl, linux native games (wich would easily work on mac), It would of course be a very small market, thinking around pre golden age of DOS games. But an over the interenet, small credit charge for a full game could be enough if you are aware that you probably wont afford to get the ferrari.

Hey even DS seems to get by.
As for Vista, it just could be the windows that makes me go for Debian.

Very nice, I'm sure someone will find a use for it. As long as I can continue playing Baldurs Gate 2 (which I still haven't finished) and Alice and System Shock 2 and Tron 2.0 and Age of Mythology and Gothic 2 on my Win 2000 machine, I'm happy.

Plus, didn't we already figure all this out with HTML and CSS? Now, if they'd just fix Internet Explorer so I could simply code to spec and not hack for their stupid assed broken browser, it'd save me a lot of time and frustration. Why don't they fix that first?