Dev,

For instance, if the regulation said that a game must NEVER contain hidden code, art or textures or anything else, even stuff that can't be activated without a 3rd party mod (like hot coffee) anything that would potentially change a rating; then what would happen?

I dunno? Games would not have any hidden shit in them? So?

Well game companies would end up producing less games in fear of fines (especially after the first couple fines hit). Risks and thus the costs of producing games would go up, so there would be less availible game production dollars in the market place

Here's the reason why (I think) that won't matter : The gaming industy is a seven billion dollar business, and climbing. Games will continue to be made, no matter how badly regulated it is. Let's face it, despite what Jack Thompson says, if a developer/publisher make a game and plan from day 1 for it to be an M rated game, their projected sales will be based on only people aged 17 or older buying it. They don't make an M rated game and say "And we think that at least one million teenagers will buy it!"
That's simply not the way a corporation (ie, large publishers work). They want a solid target base, not a vague one that potentially falls outside of that.
So say the games will get regulated and any teenager buying an M rated game will go to Guantanamo, and the gamestore gets set on fire.
It won't make a difference for a publisher's expectations of how many units they will sell. And THAT is what drives whether or not they make a game. So in the end, what does it matter if it's regulated or not?


They also would try to reuse as much code as possible from other games, code that had been "vetted" as b00bie free or whatever.

*shrug*, don't we think it's about time the videogame industry stop all this juvenile bullshit anyways? Such as the game where there were something like 8000 links to porn websites on the disc and such? (Oh wait, I forgot, that was an "accident".)
So they'll vet the code of all boobies if they want to sell it as T, or they don't if they want to sell it as M. So the only difference would then be that we would NEVER see another booby in a T game. OH NO!!! THAT'S JUST HORRIBLE!
Who fucking cares? If people are really that desperate for boobies in a game, why aren't they buying an M or AO rated game to begin with?? I guess these people would also buy a T rated "Adult Movie", and are then surprised because there's no big titted lesbians in it?


And the release time would have to be extended (although with most games this wouldn't be a bad thing) so they could go over the code with a fine tooth comb to make sure no one hid anything in it or any content was outside of the rating

Not really. Because, let me repeat, it's fucking time the game industry grows up anyways. I realise most programmers still live in the 80s and think it's so edgy and cool to "put a booby in the game!", but if their publisher tells them "no funny shit gets put in this game, or we fucking sue your asses into the grave", then I THINK the developer will think twice about being so fucking stupid.
I mean, it's the dev who's completely in charge of the content of their game. Would it REALLY be that hard for them to pretend to be adults for a change?

In the end, we'll get a stronger demarkation between T rated games and M rated games. I, for one, don't really find that prospect to be so frightening.
And yes, we all agree that it's bullshit hypocrisy that you can murder NPCs to your heart's content, and bang hookers in a car, pay them for services rendered, then bludgeon them to death with a baseball bat and get your money back, and that's all fine, but if we see a boob, then Oh No The Sky Is Falling, but that's the reality we live with here in the US. The TV market can manage to adhere to that regulation. So can the movie industry. Why can't the game industry? Why does the game industry again feel as if they deserve special treatment?

The game industry says "Well, the movie industry isn't regulated like this!"
That's right, and know why? Because (afaik) they don't fuck up like this. A parent can take a kid to a PG-13 movie, and know that it's safe for a kid who's 13 years old. They still don't have that safety with a game's ratings, because of a few idiot developers.
(Again, not saying anything about the stupidity that a PG-13 movie can show a man's brains being blown out, but no boobies!)

But what if a game was released where the animation of dying was considered too explicit after a 2nd review by the ESRB? Then the game company could get fined.

I think that that game company should have set a clearer goal on what they were trying to make. When Raven did the SoF games, they set straight out "This is a game for adults. We don't want kids to play this."
If a company thinks it's skirting the edge, maybe it needs to re-evaluate what it's doing.

For a prime example of this, just take a look at oblivion, in this very story. Its not ONLY about the b00bies, it also says that they decided after a second look that the game contained more detailed blood/gore than they want for a T rating.

I was already amazed that Oblivion GOT a T rating to begin with. All this shows is either that
A) The ESRB is brutally incompetent
B) Microsoft simply BOUGHT the T rating.

Neither of which would surprise me.

If this were regulated, bethesda could have gotten fined for that (even without the b00by factor)

C'est la vie. If you want a T game, then don't put any blood in it, and don't model the women with actual boobs, then put a bra on top of it. Model the female form without boobs, ie as has been stated, like an old barbie doll. Then there is no problem.
But yes, if you start skirting the edge, then you can potentially get in trouble.

Liken it to driving on the highway. If the speed limit is 65, and you go 60, you'll never get a ticket. If you go 75, you WILL get a ticket. If you go 68, you might get a ticket, you might not.

If you build a T game without blood and boobies, nobody's going to complain about it. If you build a T game with naked hookers giving blowjobs, you're going to get hurt.
If you build a T game with blood spurts and female models that are covered by a single bit of clothing, you can potentially run into some trouble.

It really ISN'T that hard for the game industry to draw the line a bit firmer. The question is, do they want to?


Additional regulation is almost never a good idea. It always has unintended consequences

It might. All I'm saying is that to (I'm guessing) 95% of the people here, it won't make a single jot of difference. And to those few people here that are perhaps under 17, either wait till you're 17 (since you really SHOULDN'T be playing these games in the first place ), or buy it online with your parents credit card.


Good arguments Dev.

Creston

Edit : Ever since Hot Coffee, companies have been cracking down harder on the content thats being left in the code, essentialy taking time away from making a better game and more into saving their ass that they dont leave any stray code that could be later found and unlocked

See, this proves exactly my point. Stray code that was left behind.
If they decide "We're doing a T rated game" and they don't fucking WRITE THIS CODE IN THE FIRST PLACE, they wouldn't have to look for it afterwards, and it could never be left behind.
IE : Videogame developers, GROW THE FUCK UP.
Dev 1 :"Hahahaha, I PUT A B00b1E In TEH GAME!!!!"
Dev 2 :"D00d, you are like so kewl!!!!!!11!!"
For fuck's sake.

If that code isn't there to begin with, it's not going to affect time spent on making games. It just won't. You can't leave behind what you DIDN'T WRITE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

In addition, companies target that T rating because of the larger amount of sales a T rated game gets over and M rated game. Often times content is removed from a game that made the game better in order to recieve the T rating, and if this comes late in the dev cycle a quick hack is put into place that often leaves the game mechanics feeling odd in certain situations

Yup. So they will have to be more firm AT THE START of the development cycle about what they want to make. Do we make a T game, or do we make an R game?
And if they choose to skirt close to the edge, then they run the risk of being fined.
This really isn't all that hard?

This comment was edited on May 3, 23:14.