Yep -- he was definately in the news in '98. I remember "Osama Bin Laden" was the answer to a question on one of my quizzes in my high school's 11th grade world cultures class. I was the only person I knew that had heard of him before 9/11, though.

Here's an interesting test: find a story published before 2001 mentioning the terrorist group (not just the word) Al Qaeda. You won't.

Here's one, dated 12/16/1998:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/embassy.bombing/index.html

Here's another, dated 12/22/1998:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/22/terrorism.suspect.01/index.html

And here's one more, dated 5/28/1999:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9905/28/embassy.bomb/index.html

And that's just a few from CNN.com. I'm sure I could find others if I looked, but for right now I think those will suffice.

The Power of Nightmares is a conspiracy theory, along the lines of those saying the government purpotrated the attacks on 9/11.


WoW: Darsius (Earthen Ring) / GW: Denarr Trueblade / BF2: Slinky317 / CoH: Spectris (Justice)

Here's an interesting test: find a story published before 2001 mentioning the terrorist group (not just the word) Al Qaeda. You won't.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/371552.stm


That's just what I found off the BBC (they're my homepage anyway). That and LexisNexis and Newsbank say otherwise (though, I'll admit I have to use my university login to access those databases). The point is they were recognized prior to 2000. The military doesn't just come up with this stuff to have a "media friendly buzzword." Really, the military just adopts whatever their civilians highers tell them and go off with it.

As such, one could even make the case that Al Qaeda has never killed a single american; various Jihadi groups of course have.

Not really. The bombing of the USS Cole was attributed to and carried out by al Qaeda's boys. Before that there were/are reports of sporadic targeting of American and European citizens overseas. The thing is, it would be nice to think that 9/11 was suddenly the inception date al Qaeda became a terrorist group, but their formulation isn't that simple or sudden. They rarely ever are. Even groups or cells that splinter off from their former the larger organiztion still derive their origins from their origin.


What I was referring to was that anyone could claim to be doing acts of terrorism in the name of al Qaeda and Bin Laden wouldn't dispute it, as long as it is in line with his objectives.

Oh well, that being the case, I see what you mean. The vast majority of attacks aren't anything of real size and the casualties vary widely with the sophistication and execution of attacks; it just serves as a hell of way to get their name around.


This comment was edited on May 5, 17:35.

No, really, al Qaeda is considered a specific organization and there are other terrorist organizations at odds with them. Every now and then you read in the news of their bombings "accidentally" killing members of other insurgent groups in Iraq and then retribution bombings occuring. Some groups that the US/EU consider terrorist groups even make it a public point of distancing themselves from al Qaeda.

What I was referring to was that anyone could claim to be doing acts of terrorism in the name of al Qaeda and Bin Laden wouldn't dispute it, as long as it is in line with his objectives.

WoW: Darsius (Earthen Ring) / GW: Denarr Trueblade / BF2: Slinky317 / CoH: Spectris (Justice)

Here's an interesting test: find a story published before 2001 mentioning the terrorist group (not just the word) Al Qaeda. You won't.

Al Qeada is a group term used to describe a huge number of terrorist groups (not even neccesseraliy linked!) which was only coined as such post 9/11. There is no 'group' called Al Qaeda (whatever spelling you use). It's a term the Pentagon 'made up' to conveniently lump together a large group of terrorists. They did this to have a media friendly buzzword. As such, one could even make the case that Al Qaeda has never killed a single american; various Jihadi groups of course have.

A good documentary to start with is The power of nightmares...mainly because the creator is well-respected and unlike Micheal Moore, he is know for meticulous research and factuality.

Considering al Qaeda roughly means "the base" in Arabic, it is a broad organization of jihadists and mujahideen which pretty much anyone can fall under.

No, really, al Qaeda is considered a specific organization and there are other terrorist organizations at odds with them. Every now and then you read in the news of their bombings "accidentally" killing members of other insurgent groups in Iraq and then retribution bombings occuring. Some groups that the US/EU consider terrorist groups even make it a public point of distancing themselves from al Qaeda.

"Al Qaeda" is just another name that twists innoculous words into a title that serves supposedly justifiable political purposes. Of course it's not justifiable when you resort to violence to maim/murder innocent people to spread an idealogical message.

No, he's absolutely wrong. Al Qaeda attacked our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998, killing 220+ and wounding over 4,000. In addition, Osama bin Laden has been tied to the 1996 bombings of the Khobar Towers, killing 19 US Airmen.

You're right, of course, since embassies are considered U.S. territory (Khobar Towers, however, was not on an embassy and therefore not on U.S. soil). However, I was assuming that by referring to "on U.S. soil" he meant the mainland country, not the embassies.

WoW: Darsius (Earthen Ring) / GW: Denarr Trueblade / BF2: Slinky317 / CoH: Spectris (Justice)

Oh shit! Have Tanzania and Kenya been annexed by the US as well?

I always miss the big stories somehow.. Guess I should probably renew my newspaper subscription.

He said "embassies" which are US soil (in another country).



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GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 16 W/Mo

http://www.flaminglips.com

Oh shit! Have Tanzania and Kenya been annexed by the US as well?

From a legal standpoint, all American embassies are on American soil. So, Trainwreck is correct in that regard.

(duplicate post)
This comment was edited on May 5, 14:54.

However, you are correct in saying that the first "official" attack committed by al Qaeda on U.S. soil were the attacks on 9/11.

No, he's absolutely wrong. Al Qaeda attacked our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998, killing 220+ and wounding over 4,000. In addition, Osama bin Laden has been tied to the 1996 bombings of the Khobar Towers, killing 19 US Airmen.

Oh shit! Have Tanzania and Kenya been annexed by the US as well?

I always miss the big stories somehow.. Guess I should probably renew my newspaper subscription.

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It may be that one day a young man will adore a Pinata.

However, you are correct in saying that the first "official" attack committed by al Qaeda on U.S. soil were the attacks on 9/11.

No, he's absolutely wrong. Al Qaeda attacked our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya in 1998, killing 220+ and wounding over 4,000. In addition, Osama bin Laden has been tied to the 1996 bombings of the Khobar Towers, killing 19 US Airmen.

You mean a plane hitting a building? That was the only Al Quida attack ever on US soil (in fact, it is only AFTER that happened that the name Al Quida was even thought up!)

Being that any terrorist can claim to be part of al Qaeda and no question would come of it, that isn't necessarily true; the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, while not "officially" an al Qaeda attack (instead was committed under the command of the Blind Sheik), was later "adopted" and idolized by al Qaeda. Considering al Qaeda roughly means "the base" in Arabic, it is a broad organization of jihadists and mujahideen which pretty much anyone can fall under. Along those lines, the shootings outside the CIA headquarters in Langley also could have been considered an al Qaeda operation, since Mir Aimal Kansi fought with the group in the fight in Afghanistan. However, you are correct in saying that the first "official" attack committed by al Qaeda on U.S. soil were the attacks on 9/11.

Also, the name al Qaeda was thought up much earlier than September 11th. The organization was formed to combat the Soviet forces which invaded Afghanistan in the 80s, and was first coined "al Qaeda" by Bin Laden and Abdullah Azzam in 1988 after the Soviet withdraw.


WoW: Darsius (Earthen Ring) / GW: Denarr Trueblade / BF2: Slinky317 / CoH: Spectris (Justice)
This comment was edited on May 5, 12:06.

I don't...for several good reasons I'll post later in the later thread cause a)I doubt people will read it here and b)I have to go now. But my reasons start with 'chilling effect' and meander thru the Wallmart effect and conservativeness due to political correctness and the fact that ratings can't really be planned for explicitly (we dunno if this is or is not allowed) and the fact that books don't have ratings.


Till later!

Press 'z'. And download the mod which improves the 'strenght' of your grip so you can actually drag something without losing the object.

"iranian soldiers are trained from birth, some rising to assasin status. the entire populace is trained to kill."

You're an idiot who has read about the origins of the word assasin, but has no concept of what goes on in persia.

"he geographic features of the countries involved far tilt the scales against united states,"

Bullshit again; geography favours the US (one of the reasons why Russia could never invade the US)...except against ICBM's, but that kind of war benefits no-one, as you'd still have to send ovver troops, in which case geography again favours the US.

"and its electronics based economy will disintegrate under attack"

Read a few too many Tom Clancy novels? Read some electronic engeneering and programming textbooks, please. Especially about antenna theory and communication protocols.

"as seen in alqayda attacks on american soils."

You mean a plane hitting a building? That was the only Al Quida attack ever on US soil (in fact, it is only AFTER that happened that the name Al Quida was even thought up!)

"against the american race."

There is no such thing.

"Intelligent Design in the Classroom, what could it hurt?
Hey trust me you'll never notice!"


Um, right, because I've been a proponent of Intelligent Design?

Anyways, I agree that this must really be pissing MS off with regards to the M rated games for their console. While I'm sure that the M rated market is a large part of their console ownership, I don't think that's who they were initially targeting.

Creston

...is probably crapping in their pants. Two of 360's gotta have games are now rated M. The shareholders are probably going to collectively say WTF?

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latest track: http://www.kxmode.com/media/music/kXmode-Fallen_refresh.mp3
more free music: http://music.download.com/kxmode

Actually I think the game received a rating change was to reflect the amount of cursing that goes on after desktop crashes.

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latest track: http://www.kxmode.com/media/music/kXmode-Fallen_refresh.mp3
more free music: http://music.download.com/kxmode

I’m sure Bethesda was just as shocked as I was, when I murdered a lady in her house left a huge blood splatter on the wall as she rolled down her stairs, that this game received a Teen rating.

I’m sure it would help a great deal if the ESRB knew jack shit about the product they are trying to regulate, or hey, maybe play the game guys, but this still just seems like a whoops, nothing political.

O, and the MPAA is no better, I would assume mostly politics there, you cannot tell me The Two Towers and The Return of the King are not R rated movies.