XP on Macs

Apple Launches Software to Run Windows XP is the announcement (wisely not released on April 1) announcing a patch for Intel-based Macs to boot either MacOS or Windows XP:
The computer maker said its new "Boot Camp" software is available as a download beginning Wednesday. It allows users with a Microsoft Windows XP installation disc to install Windows XP on an Intel-based Mac computer.

"Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple's superior hardware now that we use Intel processors," Philip Schiller, Apple senior vice president of worldwide product marketing, said in a statement.

Boot Camp makes it easier to install Windows software on an Intel-based Mac, with a step-by-step guide. It also lets users choose to use either Mac OS X software, or the Windows software when they restart their computer.

Users can download the new Boot Camp software from Apple's Web site. A final version of Boot Camp will be available as a feature in the upcoming Mac OS X version 10.5 "Leopard."
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84 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 3.
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44.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 14:27
44.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 14:27
Apr 5, 2006, 14:27
 
RAW would be OK too. I use IrfanView as my default image viewer.

http://www.download.com/IrfanView/3000-2192_4-10491149.html?tag=lst-0-1

43.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 14:21
43.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 14:21
Apr 5, 2006, 14:21
 
but now it doesn't even know what a TIFF is

Er, yes it does. MS Paint (shudder) can deal with TIFFs.

Ah. My bad. I couldn't remember if it did or not.. guess I should've gone with RAW

But even still (and not to beat what is - for me - a dead horse), can it deal with fully color-managed 16-bit per channel layered and compressed TIFF support straight through the print queue?


-----
It may be that one day a young man will adore a Pinata.
This comment was edited on Apr 5, 14:22.
-----
I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
42.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 14:15
42.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 14:15
Apr 5, 2006, 14:15
 

You're trying really hard meatforce:

Openoffice = 0$
pdfcreator = 0$
Xp pro = useless unless you need domain logon, home is enough
The Gimp = 0$

Am I? I thought I was trying to put both platforms on an even footing from the point of view of a user ordering one of these systems configured and ready to go.. I'm not entirely sure what the point of bringing open-source software into the equation is..

Openoffice = available for both platforms
The Gimp = available for both platforms

Besides that

XP Pro = mandatory because Apple doesn't make an "OSX Home Edition"
PDFCreator = ok fine, but it's still an extra install, and my point is that OSX can create all manner of PDFs OOTB.

So OK, without Acrobat Elements the Dell is now $320 cheaper than the Mac

Like I said, there's not a vast divide between them when you get their configurations into the same ballpark. The Dell gets a slightly larger screen and a DL burner, while the Mac gets vastly better software OOTB and much better support. Beyond that they're not all that different.

Frankly, I find the dual-boot possibility, combined with the better build-quality, tech-support, and OOTB software package to put the Mac into a whole different league for only $300, but that's just me..

-----
It may be that one day a young man will adore a Pinata.
-----
I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
41.
 
EFI and VMWare
Apr 5, 2006, 13:55
41.
EFI and VMWare Apr 5, 2006, 13:55
Apr 5, 2006, 13:55
 
I hope VMWare support EFI in future builds as well as their current virtual machine BIOS. I would like to run OS X inside VMWare and indeed the other way around when VMWare support OS X as a host.

I asked VMWare and got this reply..

"Unfortunately, we do not provide information in advance of an official press
release. My only suggestion is to stay tuned to our website for further
details."

Maybe its real soon now

OT: Does anybody how I can get BF2 to remember my unlock weapon selection for every server I join and team side i join? Its damn annoying to have to keep changing weapons.

pdfcreator = 0$ ?? Why bother when OpenOffice and Office12 can save as PDF natively.

This comment was edited on Apr 5, 14:07.
40.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:52
40.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:52
Apr 5, 2006, 13:52
 
Tried Nero's?

Not yet -- I note that I left out one word in that quoted sentence: "free".

I have Nero Ultimate 7 now, as well as Adobe Photoshop/Premiere Elements. When I have some free time (ahahahahahahahahahah) I'll try them both out.

39.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:49
nin
39.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:49
Apr 5, 2006, 13:49
nin
 
And I've given up on finding an easy-to-use, all-in-one video editing app. You can cobble together some really powerful solutions from multiple packages, but the UI(s) still suck and they're not integrated.

Tried Nero's?

--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Tolyl Nor, lvl 20 E/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 16 W/Mo

http://www.placeboworld.co.uk
38.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:45
38.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:45
Apr 5, 2006, 13:45
 
but now it doesn't even know what a TIFF is

Er, yes it does. MS Paint (shudder) can deal with TIFFs.

And there's a shitload of free software out there that can deal with other image formats too. Editing is another matter -- the Gimp is powerful, but it sure as hell isn't friendly.

And I've given up on finding an easy-to-use, all-in-one video editing app. You can cobble together some really powerful solutions from multiple packages, but the UI(s) still suck and they're not integrated.

Again, Adobe solves both issues w/ their home user oriented package.

37.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:42
37.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:42
Apr 5, 2006, 13:42
 
You're trying really hard meatforce:

Openoffice = 0$
pdfcreator = 0$
Xp pro = useless unless you need domain logon, home is enough
The Gimp = 0$

So that's 3474 vs 1539 minus that 400 and something rebate. Oh, and that 9400 dell you're using has a 17" wide screen, you should be using the 15" model from dell.
That rebate is almost certainly an ISP rebate (this is from my experience working retail and selling computers). If so, it binds them into a 2 or 3 year dial-up contract with AOL or something similar, at their ridiculously high prices (might as well go with broadband). If I'm right about that, that's not a real rebate and shouldn't be included in the calculations. If I'm wrong, then I'm glad to see they are finally doing away with that nonsense.
EDIT: It appears it's a coupon and not a rebate, but I'm leaving my original comment to warn people of the evils of ISP rebates. EEEEEVIL!

I'd also like to say XP Home is a bad idea for regular users in most cases. If they ever want to connect to their office network from home, they're probably screwed. MacOS has no such limitations (although they may have trouble connecting to a Windows network without additional tweaking).
EDIT: I just looked through that comparison list, and I would like to add Remote Desktop Connection and full Administrative Tools to my list of reasons to not buy Home Edition.

And the freeware software alternatives you list are not realistic for your average dumb computer user. They're fine for people that understand computers, but they aren't idiot proof like Apple's stuff, or like retail software.

This comment was edited on Apr 5, 13:50.
36.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:41
36.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:41
Apr 5, 2006, 13:41
 
Xp pro = useless unless you need domain logon, home is enough

Untrue. Pro adds a lot of other features -- probably the killer one here is multi processor support. Why the hell would you buy a dual core CPU and then install an OS that doesn't do SMP? (Full list: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp )


minus that 400 and something rebate

It's not a rebate, it's a coupon. I hate rebates. It's $450 that you simply don't pay.

35.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:40
35.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:40
Apr 5, 2006, 13:40
 

I think when comparing those systems, the software should be the minimum (just the OS, at most). Who needs Dell for the software?

Ah, but that's where it gets tricky, because an OOTB install of OSX is capable of so much more than XP. But OK, subtract MS Word SBE ($330) and Corel PhotoPhucker ($39) from that for the sake of argument..

- The Dell is $3184 but now it doesn't even know what a TIFF is (still has that sweet DL burner though)
- The Mac is $3474, and can be just as crippled as the Dell, OR it can boot OSX

*shrugs again*

They're still pretty damn similar machines when you get right down to it.

-----
It may be that one day a young man will adore a Pinata.
-----
I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
34.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:34
34.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:34
Apr 5, 2006, 13:34
 
You're trying really hard meatforce:

Openoffice = 0$
pdfcreator = 0$
Xp pro = useless unless you need domain logon, home is enough
The Gimp = 0$

So that's 3474 vs 1539 minus that 400 and something rebate. Oh, and that 9400 dell you're using has a 17" wide screen, you should be using the 15" model from dell.

33.
 
No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:32
33.
No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:32
Apr 5, 2006, 13:32
 
"Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple's superior hardware now that we use Intel processors"
Gotta love Mac elitism. Admittedly, Microsoft, Intel, and AMD use a lot of hyperbole in their press releases, but nothing that bad.

So my question is this: since Apple has always claimed that it has superior hardware, the CPU must be meaningless. They had superior hardware before they used Intel processors, and they have superior hardware now that they use Intel. Did they only go with Intel to allow their users to actually play games (via Windows dual-boot)?

I do have to admit though, that's a great name for their dual-boot software. Apple always was good at naming things.

To be fair, the Apple iLife suite is really quite nice. But I certainly wouldn't compare it to what Dell offers -- frankly, Dell's software options are utter shit and heavily overpriced.
I'm not a Mac user, so I can't vouch for their software, but I've heard that it's good. That's one area PC vendors really fuck up - bundled software. They should include XP Pro and Office with their systems. Sure it would cost $500 more, but at least then Joe User wouldn't be crippled on his brand new PC. By making it optional, they make their packages a lot cheaper, but effectively disabled.

You wouldn't believe how many people used to come in to the retail store where I used to work, looking for Office when they found out they actually needed it.

This comment was edited on Apr 5, 13:36.
32.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:31
32.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:31
Apr 5, 2006, 13:31
 
I think when comparing those systems, the software should be the minimum (just the OS, at most).

To be fair, the Apple iLife suite is really quite nice. But I certainly wouldn't compare it to what Dell offers -- frankly, Dell's software options are utter shit and heavily overpriced.

Realistically you can get the equivalent of much of iLife with one purchase -- Adobe Photoshop/Premiere Elements for $99. That's an excellent photo and video editing solution. Most of the other software that Apple bundles can be replaced with free software on the Windows side.

Similarly, I wouldn't price many hardware upgrades through Dell or Apple either -- they both overcharge. Some stuff you simply have to (you can't exactly upgrade the LCD via a 3rd party), but other stuff, like memory or the HD may make more sense to buy from NewEgg or another store (I'm vaguely considering selling the 2 512 MB 533 MHz memory sticks that will be in my Dell on eBay and buying a single 1 GHz 667 MHz stick from Newegg -- I could actually end up netting a few bucks that way, plus have a slightly faster system and a free memory slot for later upgrades).

A final note is that Apple's products are often felt to be "built better" than Dell or similar (Thinkpad is one of the few that beats them there), and Apple's customer support is always rated top notch. Neither one of those get reflected in the prices, but they may be important to consider as well.

31.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:26
31.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:26
Apr 5, 2006, 13:26
 
It is rather a shrewd move. Apple expands their market share without really immediately stepping on Microsoft's toes. If Microsoft looked only at short term, they might even like it! They'd sell more units of XP after all. Of course, Apple could use this as a basis to try to break Microsoft's hold - wait a million years for Apples to dominate the market and drop Microsoft OS support. Kind of a reversal!

--Infantryman

"Is it so hard to teach a child not to shoot people?"
Huh? I'm sorry, I was thinking about cake.
30.
 
OSx86
Apr 5, 2006, 13:14
30.
OSx86 Apr 5, 2006, 13:14
Apr 5, 2006, 13:14
 
I prefer the other way around
http://www.osx86project.org/
I spend my time about 25-75 in OS X/Windows-- far too many games to make it worth rebooting all the time.

29.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 13:02
29.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 13:02
Apr 5, 2006, 13:02
 
I think when comparing those systems, the software should be the minimum (just the OS, at most). Who needs Dell for the software? At work, we already have licenses for all the software packages we need and at only upgrades would be needed in some cases. Also, with Microsoft Action Pack subscriptions, we have more licenses than we actually use. Not to mention the entire drive is usually wiped and software is all reinstalled anyways.

28.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 12:51
28.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 12:51
Apr 5, 2006, 12:51
 
I dunno...I just bought an Acer Aspire 5672 for $1600 CDN ($1,314.88 USD) and it has the following:
Intel Dual Core 1.66Ghz, 2GB ram, 120GB Sata Drive, DVD Burner, Wireless, Bluetooth, ATI X1400, Firewire, VGA, DVI and S-video out/in.

I just feel I got more value for my money.


27.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 12:49
27.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 12:49
Apr 5, 2006, 12:49
 
Here's something more interesting,

You really need to consider software when doing these comparisons. So unless you're spec'cing XP-Pro; something that's reasonably capable of editing common image formats (not that I consider Corel Photo Album that software, but it's the best of the BS Dell was offering so..); something for creating PDFs; something for working with Word documents, etc., it's not really a fair comparison.

Here's what I came up with:

$3474 Apple: http://tinyurl.com/f2w6l
$3553 Dell: http://tinyurl.com/g6eqe

Keep in mind that those prices are in Canadian dollars.

The Dell has the advantage of a slightly larger screen and a dual-layer DVD burner (neither an insignificant detail) while the Mac gets Gigabit-Ethernet, better graphics hardware, MUCH better software, and far superior tech-support. Few other slight differences here and there..

*shrug*

They're very similar machines at very similar prices, except that soon the Mac will also run OSX.

EDIT: BAH! Dell's stupid configurator doesn't retain my choices over the base configuration:

- Core Duo 2.0GHz
- 2.0GB DDR2 667
- XP Pro
- 100GB 7200 RPM HDD
- Radeon Mobility X1400
- Bluetooth
- Office Small Business Edition
- Acrobat Elements 6
- Corel Photo Album 6

-----
It may be that one day a young man will adore a Pinata.
This comment was edited on Apr 5, 13:01.
-----
I'm not even angry. I'm being so sincere right now, even though you broke my heart and killed me.
26.
 
Re: No subject
Apr 5, 2006, 12:47
26.
Re: No subject Apr 5, 2006, 12:47
Apr 5, 2006, 12:47
 
I specced a 15.4" dell core duo 2.0 GHZ with 1 gig of ram, dvd burner and a 100 gig hd and got 1543$...

The $2000 MacBook has an 80 GB HD, not a 100 GB HD.

And Dell has a $450 off any system priced $1499 or more right now. And they tend to run similar coupons all the damn time.

The other "significant" difference (the biggest is the video card) is that Dell only sells 533 MHz DDR2 memory, while Apple sells 667 MHz. As with most laptop things I haven't seen any sites that actually give real world impacts of that. And the Dell comes w/ 1 GB of memory, while the Apple comes with 512MB.


Edit: Sigh. To make it incredibly clear -- Dell Home Inspiron 1505 (no, Small Business or other options do not get you the same things -- yes, it's silly). Take the 2nd lowest model (the base model is Core Solo). Base price is $999 (shows at $799 due to $200 coupon).

Change CPU to T2400 - +$100
Change OS Reinstall CD to include OEM CD - +$10
Add Remote Control (Apple includes) - +$29
Change LCD Panel to top end - +$100
Change HD to 80 GB 5400 rpm - +$75
Change optical to 8x CD/DVD burner - +$60
Change wireless networking to Pro 3945 w/ BT - +$49
Change video card to ATI X1400 - +$179

Total is now $1501 (will show on screen as $1301). You can apply a $450 coupon to this dropping the price at check out to $1051.

Dell advantages: 1 GB of memory @533 MHz, higher rez display, built-in modem, 802.11a support, 4 USB ports, 5-in-1 card reader, dual layer DVD burner, non-slot loading drive can handle small CD/DVD disks, more than 1 freaking mouse button built in.

Apple advantage: 512 MB of memory @677 MHz, more powerful video card, integrated video camera, motion sensor, backlit keyboard, very nifty power cable, more software (Apple's media software is quite nice and powerful), slot loading drive is more streamlined, digital audio out, can run both XP and OS X, slightly lighter.

Note that the Dell does have firewire and comes with XP Media Center Edition (not Home -- it's not even an option through Dell Home).

Whether or not what Apple offers is worth the extra money is up to you. I just bought a new laptop -- not what I listed above, but fairly similar.

This comment was edited on Apr 5, 13:47.
25.
 
OSX is the answer for me.
Apr 5, 2006, 12:38
25.
OSX is the answer for me. Apr 5, 2006, 12:38
Apr 5, 2006, 12:38
 
The hardware is the same now. I even had an argument with some brain-stem about how he wants the Mac hardware, yet he wants to run XP on it...because the style and look of the Mac hardware was better, and he could afford it, so why not? Hey, whatever pal...

I want to buy a Mac for only one reason, to run OSX. If they sold OSX separately and could be loaded on my dual-core AMD, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But they don't, so the only way to use OSX now is to buy a Mac. (No, not going to use the unsupported hacked version of OSX). But since I can't afford any Mac hardware, I guess I go without. Oh well...life goes on.

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