The Taliban are conservative. Ultra-conservative to put a fine point on it. They are the polar opposite of liberal.

Actually moron, that is why he used the term "liberal" along with Taliban and capitalized it. It is his own term meaning a liberal extremist. Of course, I completely disagree with his sentiment, but you are certainly in no position to be calling him stupid.

Second, your understanding of trademark and copyright law in the U.S. is so wrong it is laughably funny. I have already demonstrated below why it is perfectly legal for books such as this one to be created and sold. Blizzard/Vivendi even knows it is wrong on this one which is why it did not file a lawsuit against this author. However I'll let the resolution of this lawsuit speak for itself when and if it completes its run through the court system. I expect Vivendi will settle though before it goes to trial rather than lose in court.

This comment was edited on Mar 26, 09:57.

What do you expect from the Liberal Taliban? To actually be able to understand the other side of an argument?

The Taliban are conservative. Ultra-conservative to put a fine point on it. They are the polar opposite of liberal. Not that I'd expect you to understand that, caught in up in the jingoistic rhetoric you espouse which is diametrically opposed to the jingoism you espouse. No surprise there.

First off, most of you have demonstrated you have absolutely zero knowledge regarding the concepts of protected and commercial speech. Newflash kids, commercial speech is not a guarenteed right. Want to stand on a street corner and rail at the government or a political party? That's your right. Want to capitalize on a corporation's goodwill? Sorry, not permitted. How many of you actually understand what corporate goodwill means?

Allow me to simplify for those who don't understand the law. This is not Blizzard sticking it some underdog. This is Blizzard protecting their PROPERTY. It's theirs. They created it. They maintain it. Buddy is trying to make a buck off it. Nothing wrong with that...so long as they get a cut. He's telling people how to utilize their property to profit by it and calling it educational.

Want to understand what "fair use" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Imagine you invest a ton of money in something. It's a success. Then people start coming out of the woodwork making money on what you created without giving you a taste. Think that's fair? I hope to god some of you say yes and go on to create something that is a success so I can take advantage of you and your work. You clowns arguing against this are parasite's dream. That is if you could actually create something successful, and with that sort of small and limited thinking is unlikely in the extreme in the first place.


"You gotta keep on keepin' on, brother!"
- Joe Dirt

The only thing the guy has to worry about is if his guide, as you mention, is if he discusses exploits or cheats.

Actually he is free to do that as well. Neither of those fall under the DCMA, and the author is not necessarily even bound by the EULA since he could certainly watch someone else play the game and write about it.

hope this guy wins the lawsuit.

"Teaching farming to people would be an abuse of the "Fair Use" of Blizzard's trade marks."

And what if someone figures how to farm on thier own? Are they then violating the EULA becuase thye found a way to make the game system work for them?

When are people going to realize. It is in every human's blood to try to find a way to "exploit" the system in a game. Hell we teach kids skills in school just for the purpose of succeding and getting ahead!

Why be suprised when they put those skills to use in a GAME!

If the book encourages or explains how to do things that are against the user agreement or game rules or whatever, then I hope the kid gets crushed. If not I hope blizzard loses.

Either way the book is a scam.

It is not a scam.

Sure most if not all the information in this "book" are avaible free online.

But did you ever think not everyone wants to alt-tab to their browser or even a text file to look up something while they are playing WoW? Did you ever consider some of us would like to have it all in printed form complete with an index and such for quick listing? No need to alt tab or anything else.

Sure you yourself can even print it out, but not everyone has a printer, OR wants to waste a ton of paper/ink to print out the massive information that WoW contains. The book is a reasonable price considering production cost, it would be cheaper to buy it. Not to mention some people, like myself, would rather pay a few bucks and save myself hours apon hours of watching my printer clunk out 50+ (and thats a small estimate) pages of WoW information.

The only thing the guy has to worry about is if his guide, as you mention, is if he discusses exploits or cheats. I doubt he does so under DMCA and the First Amendment he is well within his rights to write this book and sell it.

I hate these guys who sell useless shit on ebay to take advantage of stupid people. Maybe he could find a real job instead of ripping people off.

It's a moot point and the lesser of two evils. Even if you detest this guy personally or the subject of his work, you have to support his lawsuit because if he loses it will be used as precedent to quash some independent writing you do like. The legal issues at stake here are much larger than the childish "he is ruining my bestest game" mentality expressed by some in this thread.

This comment was edited on Mar 25, 14:33.

Didn't realize that using trademarks illegally for the purpose of making a profit fell under the realm of free speech.

This book is not an illegal use of trademarks. From a legal standpoint there is no difference between this book and some magazine review which mentions the product(s) being reviewed. Both are commercial works and both are fair use. This is a case of Blizzard/Vivendi using the DMCA to remove legitimate works.

This comment was edited on Jul 31, 18:31.

Very good post SomeDude. Excellent - I give you 3 Blue's reputation points

Teaching farming to people would be an abuse of the "Fair Use" of Blizzard's trade marks. A judge needs to look at this because it does affect everyone else's WoW experience and damages the WoW experience and therefore the product.

Yet more crap related to the DMCA... I wish companies like Blizzard would find something better to do with their time, as this is just ridiculous. I don't care if it tells you how to farm or how to murder sheep, at the end of the day it's a legitimate guide and any flaws it exposes are for Blizzard to fix. Don't get me wrong, I think all the guides sold on eBay are utter crap but just because I don't like something doesn't mean it should be stopped, as other people may find it very useful. Blizzard have never struck me as a particularly friendly corporation, despite the good products they produce... in many respects they are like Apple when it comes to over zealous lawsuits and abuse of power.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Emotinomicon: Emoticons of the Dead

If the book encourages or explains how to do things that are against the user agreement or game rules or whatever, then I hope the kid gets crushed. If not I hope blizzard loses.

Either way the book is a scam.

I would think the safest thing it could do would be to chart out the money drops of various creatures in various areas. But then with one fell swoop blizzard can totally invalidate the book. I don't know the details about what it actually says and the circumstances to me determine the side I would take.

heh how about this:
someone offers "The Ultimate Blues News Ranting and Raving Forum Guide" on ebay for $1.00.

Would UGO then be justified in issuing Cease and Desist orders claiming that one of their affiliated trademarks was somehow being infringed? puhlease.

They can do what they want. I don't care, I've already got my copy.

--------------------------------------------------
It's like when the baby cries all night and then finally falls asleep for an hour at 3am -- the people who manage to avoid talking about Starforce for one fucking thread are that precious hour.

You folks are missing the crucial third side of the argument here.

Blizzard pledged to take a stand against "farming". If you're wondering what that is, it's an MMO thing that's generally bad for the people who play the game. 21st century sweatshops employ people to play the game, gather as much currency as possible, and sell it for real money on ebay. Simultaneously, they artificially inflate the value of in-game items so that for many people, the easiest way to get what they want is to buy the currency and then the items from the same folks that made the items so expensive in the first place, in the process returning the currency back to the seller's pile. It's quite the scam.

Blizzard's action against this guy is almost certainly an attempt to take a bite out of that industry -- and it is an industry, make no mistake.

Right or wrong? I dunno. Taking a wider view, there is some new and therefore gray territory here.

Blizzard will try to prove that this is not the same as a "How to use Windows" book. The logic being, such a guide is aimed at helping users of the software while this whole farming thing has only negative impacts on the bulk of people using the software. They're going to have to prove:

1. That their software and their subscribers are being harmed by such activities

2. That this is worthy of legal recognition

3. That they are acting within their rights to protect their property, and that those rights should be upheld

Now, those three points on their own should make people who play games happy. As for the specific context, I'm not so sure. Personally, I think their time (and their gamble) would be better spent on going after the currecy/item dealers, both the individual ebay and organized business varieties. The latter will be tricky because those companies are generally (and literally) beyond the reach of legal action.

Anyway, should be interesting to see what happens.

This comment was edited on Mar 25, 06:14.

Since I played WoW and saw Blizzards true face I am really not surprised about this.

________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!

what can i write about.... hmm.... hmm.
Maybe i'll write BF2 Mercenary memoirs. Even though I've only had two contracts. So the first two chapters would be about the contracts. Then the last 10 chapters would be about my huge, depressing downfall where I become a junkie booze hound with an addiction to potpourri cans..

someone offers "The Ultimate Blues News Ranting and Raving Forum Guide" on ebay for $1.00.

is there a buyout?

know when the auction ends?

please let me know asap!!!

Games and applications are not one and the same.

I'm not taking a side one way or the other here, just pointing that out. Games are some grey area between movies and applications.

-------------
Doomriders: the first new band worth a signature - http://www.deathwishinc.com/

heh how about this:
someone offers "The Ultimate Blues News Ranting and Raving Forum Guide" on ebay for $1.00.

Would UGO then be justified in issuing Cease and Desist orders claiming that one of their affiliated trademarks was somehow being infringed? puhlease.

Guides on ebay are usually borderline scams anyway. If writing that "guide" to wow makes him an author then this post makes me an author.

I don't agree with what blizzard is trying to do here, but I hate these guys who sell useless shit on ebay to take advantage of stupid people. Maybe he could find a real job instead of ripping people off.

What are you people smoking? By your argument, all the "for dummies" books, etc should be illegal. All those 3rd party "Running Windows Server" books should be illegal.

He is NOT using their trademark illegally unless he is claiming that WoW is his own product. He is perfectly in his rights to write ABOUT someone else's product. (Imagine the kind of news we'd have if this same type of lawsuit were waged every time a news agency wanted to report something bad about a corporation. "A major vunerability was discovered today in ... um ... the 2nd most popular browser. No, not that one that sounds like it's about singing. The other one. No, not the one that belongs on the shiny operating system. The one with the .. um... flaming canine. Yeah. That one!"

Sheesh. It is perfectly legal to write a guidebook about whatever you want. Blizzard is trying to squash something they don't like by using the "we can afford to pay our lawyers longer then you can" tactic. 100% lame.