Just because something isn't used often doesn't mean it isn't better.

Economists all over the world would like to disagree. Vehemenantly.


Hmm. That doesn't take into consideration technologies that could be considered better for whatevever purpose but are cost prohibitive?



There have been people in the news recently in MN (which forced this law change) that have been convicted of DWI 20+ times in 5-10 years....WTF!?

Wtf indeed...

**Being high - or under ANY drug - is considered the same as being drunk in the state of MN

Ah... then yes, I agree with your first point. We have "causing death by dangerous driving" as an offence (which also sometimes throws up embarassingly small sentences) though I was more referring to people who shoot/stab/etc people while drunk as opposed to people who take to the roads.

Criminal Veh. Homicide:
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/data/revisor/statutes/2005/609/21.html

Each state in the US is starting to step up the dunk/high while driving laws. Here in MN, it is 3 in 10 years I think.

169A.24 First-degree driving while impaired.
Subdivision 1. Degree described. A person who
violates section 169A.20 (driving while impaired) is guilty of first-degree driving while impaired if the person:
(1) commits the violation within ten years of the first of three or more qualified prior impaired driving incidents; or
(2) has previously been convicted of a felony under this
section.
Subd. 2. Criminal penalty. A person who commits
first-degree driving while impaired is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than seven years, or to payment of a fine of not more than $14,000, or both. The person is subject to the mandatory penalties described in section 169A.276 (mandatory penalties; felony violations).

There have been people in the news recently in MN (which forced this law change) that have been convicted of DWI 20+ times in 5-10 years....WTF!? Throw them in jail and throw away the damn key.

Multiple: (1-5 or more)
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/getpub.php?pubtype=STAT_CHAP_SEC&year=2005&section=169A.275&keyword_type=exact&keyword=169A.275
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This comment was edited on Feb 2, 16:20.

Not in the US - ususally they get convicted of "vehicular manslaughter" or some pansy equivalent and are released in a matter of months or years.

Ah... then yes, I agree with your first point. We have "causing death by dangerous driving" as an offence (which also sometimes throws up embarassingly small sentences) though I was more referring to people who shoot/stab/etc people while drunk as opposed to people who take to the roads.

They usually are.

Not in the US - ususally they get convicted of "vehicular manslaughter" or some pansy equivalent and are released in a matter of months or years.

For example:

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_a1494.pdf

Reckless Homicide
A DUI crash resulting in death.
• Class 2 Felony (see penalty chart)
• minimum 2-year driver’s license revocation

Class 2 Felony
• DUI — Possible imprisonment of 3-7 years; Fines up to
$25,000
• Aggravated DUI/Reckless Homicide with 1 death —
Possible imprisonment of 3-14 years; Fines up to $25,000
• Aggravated DUI/Reckless Homicide with multiple deaths —
Possible imprisonment of 6-28 years; Fines up to $25,000

Not nearly enough, IMHO, and with time off for good behavior (typically, what, about 50% ?), they could be out in 1.5 years. And that's if they don't plead the case down to a lower crime to prevent going to trial and don't serve time, go on probation, etc.

Here's another:

http://www.cityofreno.com/gov/municipal/dui/

What is a felony DUI?

This is a third DUI committed within seven years. Any DUI which involves an accident resulting in a death or substantial bodily harm to another person, whether that person is a passenger in the driver's car or someone not in the driver's car, is also concidered a felony offense DUI. "Substantial bodily harm" is defined in Nevada Revised Statute 0.060.

What are the penalties when a death or serious injury is involved?

The person must be fined $2,000 to $5,000 and serve 2 to 20 years in prison for each injury or death. Probation is not available for this charge.

This broad is not your wife, she's the enemy.
She tried to kill me.
They all try to kill you. Slowly, painfully, cripplingly, and then wham. They hurt you. How you going to handle it?

112.

Awesome.

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So much to reply to...

space captain:

thats interesting - here is an article from popular mechanics in 1938 about a "New Billion Dollar Crop"

Would you really like us to go through all the Popular Mechanics cover stories that have turned out to be utter crap?

it can replace wood fiber used for paper, etc., which is usually obtained from 100+yr old trees

Dude, you need to do less of the stuff. You're hallucinating. Paper is mostly made from trees grown specifically for pulpwood, which reach maturity in 15-20 years (yes, pine can easily grow to 40' high and 6" in diameter in that time period). That may take longer than fiber crops, but you have to also consider the relative ease of growing pines (plant them and you're pretty much done) and how much acreage/ton of paper is involved. Also note that if you want to start talking about using hemp for paper then you have to also include other fiber crops (cotton, flax, etc) for potential usage. At that point hemp stops being so wonderous.

you need to study actual facts instead of whipping some opinion out of your ass and calling it "objective truth PERIOD"

Funny... so do you. And Enahs is a lot closer to the truth than you are. Hemp is cultivated in a number of countries and its market presence is exceptionally small compared to the various alternatives. And it's not growing all that fast either, which it should be if it was so amazingly useful. Also note that growing hemp for fiber production means that you harvest it before it buds, which thus eliminates the drug issue.



Kukuman:

Just because something isn't used often doesn't mean it isn't better.

Economists all over the world would like to disagree. Vehemenantly. Go take a macro economics class next quarter and you'll understand.

In fact a lot of the things you say are better than hemp require oil to manufacture and are thus not sustainable like hemp is.

What do you think fertilizer is made out of man? Any large scale crop growing requires lots and lots of fertilizer which is made of... shock... oil byproducts!

I don't think it is wise to base our entire civilization around oil.

Who's arguing that it is? And yet we are. What's potentially foolish is using oil for fuel purposes when the other byproducts are more essential (namely fertilizer, but a lot of plastics would also be difficult to replace).

Hemp has its uses, no doubt. And it has a lot of potential that's been ignored due to the politization of the crop, but it's not the wonder crop that you're making it out to be. Its added value over other fibrous crops is fairly marginal -- which is a point that hemp advocates seem to convienently forget when talking about all of its uses. Most of those uses are already fulfilled by other crops that are in wide usage.

This has probably been the best discussion on the supposed benefts of hemp and its desired legalization I've ever seen. Even in college, it often just breaks down to people looking for excuses to legally indulge themselves with it.

I also think anyone who kills another person while intoxicated (driving a car, etc) should be convicted of first-degree murder (and injuries of attempted murder).

They usually are. It is actually very difficult to use voluntary intoxication as a defence, especially to specific intent crimes such as murder. That's how it is in the English (and Welsh - woo) legal system anyway. Intoxication is only a defence if it robs you of the intent to kill or makes you make a mistake as to what you are doing (you are shooting people but actually you think you are shooting monsters from the centre of the earth). This (if proved) will reduce a murder charge to involuntary manslaughter which is still harshly punished. Technically it is available as a defence (and with valid reasons) but not for people that get drunk and shoot their wife, etc.

This comment was edited on Feb 2, 05:05.

Now I know who all the pot heads are on these boards

-----------------------------------
GO SEAHAWKS!!!

I am sorry you want marijuana legalized and will believe anything to help you get what you want. But that does not make what you believe facts. Also, your sarcastic insults to me do not help your position either.

How you are acting is what makes many people not want to legalize marijuana…they are afraid more people will act like you.


http://www.frappr.com/bluesnewsmembers
Show me where you live! I promise it will only hurt the first time.

it makes sense that as a Chemist you feel you have complete understanding of how hemp could never benefit society in terms of resource production..

much clearer now, thx

btw - 1-2 years is still shorter time period than 20-30 yrs.. and hemp is still alot smaller than trees in terms of usable surface area

but nevermind, i would never claim to have such a complete understanding of the world as you do, oh great and mighty Chemist... yes i bow before your almighty understanding of resource production

YOU WIN!!!!!

________________________
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/invisibleacropolis_music.htm

Is I once tried on a hemp shirt.
I prefer cotton.

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Looking to add BF2 members to our clan. Drop a line if interested.

I don't think it is wise to base our entire civilization around oil.

Which I have said on here 100's of times whenever the oil debate is brought up.

And I don't think freshman level chemistry is enough to fully understand the benefits and drawbacks of hemp.

No, but you (err...you as in him...since I was talking to him) would have the basic knowledge for me to explain it then.

I don't even think a B.Sc in Chemistry is enough.

It is, if you truly learned it. But most B.S. degrees now a day seem like nothing more than a slightly advanced trade school degree. So no, probably it is not. But not because the information is not there…just not how it is taught.

I'm going to go study my freshman level chem class

Study hard, because if you learn Gen Chem 1 & 2 really well, then you have 70% of the information of a B.S. degree. Just mostly learning nomenclature after that and how to apply it to specific areas. Trust me, as I have B.S. in Chemistry and will hopefully have a masters not too long.

in my efforts to understand why hemp is such a pathetic plant that deserves to be illegal because it's useless anyway

I never once said it was pathetic or useless, I have simply said do not believe the hype about it…it is worse than the hype Derek Smart puts out about his games! I have also said that I am for the legalization of marijuana.



http://www.frappr.com/bluesnewsmembers
Show me where you live! I promise it will only hurt the first time.

True. But just because something requires oil does not make it bad.

Considering the price of oil has skyrocketed in the past 5 years, and considering the world supply will decrease and could be effectively depleted in our lifetimes, I don't think it is wise to base our entire civilization around oil.

And I don't think freshman level chemistry is enough to fully understand the benefits and drawbacks of hemp. I don't even think a B.Sc in Chemistry is enough. The dilution of the complexity of science is often done by those who try to work against it.

Personally I don't feel like spending the rest of my evening talking to what amounts to a petro/pharmochemical echo chamber. I'm going to go study my freshman level chem class in my efforts to understand why hemp is such a pathetic plant that deserves to be illegal because it's useless anyway :/

This comment was edited on Feb 1, 23:41.

as it can replace wood fiber used for paper, etc., which is usually obtained from 100+yr old trees that wont simply grow back next harvest year

Uh, then how come I was watching Mega Machines and they were harvesting like 20" trees for wood pulp? Takes 100 years to grow 20"? No.



This broad is not your wife, she's the enemy.
She tried to kill me.
They all try to kill you. Slowly, painfully, cripplingly, and then wham. They hurt you. How you going to handle it?

No, it isn't propaganda.

Yes it is.

You are confusing marijuana advocates with people who actually have a clue.

No.

Just because something isn't used often doesn't mean it isn't better...

You are correct.

I seem to think you are underestimating just how unfairly politicized hemp was and still is.

Yes I do. I also know the production of products being made with/from hemp started decreasing well before it was a political soap box.

In fact a lot of the things you say are better than hemp require oil to manufacture and are thus not sustainable like hemp is.

True. But just because something requires oil does not make it bad. And even though hemp is very versatile and resilient and grows readily and easily…to grow it on the scale we would need to replace other products would require fertilization….which fertilizers are currently made cheap thanks to products based off oil. So your oil argument is not valid.

the process can be refined for products made with hemp as well

True it can be refined. But you can only do so much with the same material, that is why new materials are invented every day.

as it can replace wood fiber used for paper, etc

The majority of hemp advocates have abandoned the paper argument. You should to. It is simply not efficient for high volume, low cost production of the same quality of paper type products.

which is usually obtained from 100+yr old trees that wont simply grow back next harvest year.

No they are not. Clear cutting and the like for production has not existed in the US since the 60’s. Clear cutting is only done for land for new development, farms, ect. Trees are now farmed. Tree companies only take 1/3rd of the trees on the land at the time, and plant back more than they grow. By only doing 1/3rd of the land at a time it keeps the eco system thriving and the trees grow back fairly fast. Most tree farms are completely renewed in 20-30 years.

That is also why for new antique furniture is really expensive. Old old trees are not really cut down anymore for product, only clear cutting. As a result for old, textured and stylish looking wood for antique furniture they have to get it from reclaimed wood (recycled, previously used in production wood…old walls, floors, ect).

lso many other tensile materials can be made as well without producing environmentally damaging chemical runoff like other plastics - and it can be used in the manufacture of many other products like soap, cloth, medicine, oil, fuel, etc. etc.

Again..crap crap crap. Just because you can make something from it does not mean it is good/the best solution.

seriously man, if you want to debate this kind of thing you need to study actual facts instead of whipping some opinion out of your ass and calling it "objective truth PERIOD"

I am a Chemist. Would you like me to break out chemical reactions, some simple college algebra enthalpy and entropy calculations for you to follow and throw in some statistics too? I can make it all simple for you, freshman level stuff so you can understand it if you would like. I know the facts….when I stated my opinion about what I thought might happen I made it clear it was an opinion. The other stuff is stone cold simple facts.

its very easy to spot your bluff, so i wouldnt advise a career in poker

*cough*….easily proved…I just doubt you could follow it. Go take a couple freshman level chemistry and physics classes and then come back and talk to me and I will explain it to you with hard evidence.


http://www.frappr.com/bluesnewsmembers
Show me where you live! I promise it will only hurt the first time.

pwned!

-----
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But again, better more efficient products where invented. Scientific process.

the process can be refined for products made with hemp as well, but since the industry makes more money on manufactured obsolescence, its not likely to happen - the benefits from using hemp are in the cost and production rates.. as it can replace wood fiber used for paper, etc., which is usually obtained from 100+yr old trees that wont simply grow back next harvest year... hemp will... also many other tensile materials can be made as well without producing environmentally damaging chemical runoff like other plastics - and it can be used in the manufacture of many other products like soap, cloth, medicine, oil, fuel, etc. etc.

seriously man, if you want to debate this kind of thing you need to study actual facts instead of whipping some opinion out of your ass and calling it "objective truth PERIOD"

its very easy to spot your bluff, so i wouldnt advise a career in poker

________________________
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/errantways_music.htm
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/invisibleacropolis_music.htm

WORST POP UNDER EVER! PLEASE FIX IT BLUE.

Whoa, finally got the NoScript extension for Firefox. This may be the end of my complaining about unstoppable pop-ups from Bluesnews/UGO... until the next round in the arms race. But Adblock + NoScript = no ads = no click fraud monetization for Blue. :-(

This comment was edited on Feb 1, 22:56.

But they are no better, efficient, environment friendly, cost productive,ect ect than if they where not made out of hemp. That part of hemp is simply propaganda.

No, it isn't propaganda. You are confusing marijuana advocates with people who actually have a clue. Just because something isn't used often doesn't mean it isn't better... I seem to think you are underestimating just how unfairly politicized hemp was and still is. In fact a lot of the things you say are better than hemp require oil to manufacture and are thus not sustainable like hemp is.

This comment was edited on Feb 1, 22:59.