Well Kotor 2 had so many holes in it, it wasn't funny. And not just the plot ones. My point is that even after release there was a half ass'd attempt to patch the game, and that was the end of it. Which really surprised me on a few points. 1) being their first game to me I would want to make sure that as the company's first product, patches would come out to fix the bugs. 2) As far as I can remember this is the first game from Lucasarts that didn't get more patches to fix the game. Hell even Battlefront kept getting patches. 3)I think it's safe to say that there will be a KOTOR 3, but if Obsidian is doing it I'm a little gun shy about buying it, and after all the extra stuff you can find going through the game files (to see what all was left out, not to mention the stuff that's mentioned in game but dropped completely) I won't be pre-ordering it like I did with KOTOR 1 and 2.

But what really surprises me is that all the Awards KOTOR got, and the only selling point for Battlefront 2 is getting is 'Best Selling Star Wars Game of all time', while Kotor 2 gets left by the waistsize.

While I'm not trying to bash Obsidian, or NWN 2, I'm pretty wary about what to expect from NWN 2, as their first product was very undercooked. And now they are taking on a sequal to another Bioware game. *crosses fingers*

This comment was edited on Dec 25, 23:37.

Like Troika's Vampire: Bloodlines, it was an ambitious effort that was affected by time constraints,


I hadn't read much about Bloodlines when I got back to the US, but I found it heavily marked down (though it seemed to me like it had just been released). I liked the first one and a second based on the Source would seem like a pretty cool winner...jeez, some places were downright awesome, other it made me wonder where the hell the point was.

I believe Chris Avellone & Co. had about a year to do KOTOR 2. Like Troika's Vampire: Bloodlines, it was an ambitious effort that was affected by time constraints, much more adversely than even Bloodlines was (anyone can peruse the SW and Obsidian boards as well as the TSL Restoration Project boards to get an idea just how they had to go about hacking up the plot to "finish" on time). As Black Isle, they were rushed for Planescape but managed that one quite well - there were very few things cut as far as most people have determined; a handful of items and a few quests.

I think probably 8 more months and KOTOR 2 would have been a great game, albeit a darker, more thoughtful/disturbing game than KOTOR.

Both were way off the design specs of what they did in NWN even though they used the D2 system it in my opinion catered to the console crowds too much for my likeing,"Big Story arcs-Lite rpg trimmings" are the norm for todays rpger.

I did like the production values in Kotor and the graphics are pretty enough but i need a beefy roleplaying experience and kotor was not anywhere near NWN or even the late great Bane of the Cosmic Forge or Wizadry 8, these were true role playing games, Kotor was RPG lite, just like GW another rpg lite game for the masses.

Bring on NWN 2 and Obsidian and then youll see what roleplaying is all about, Also got my eye on Elite4

Oh btw you want a deep inexpensive rpg game that can be played online or off and still have a world chat feature so it always seems like your online? And also no monthley fees?
jk it just a dream there is no such game unless you want to count Minions of Mirth. that is the game of the year for me folks of 2005.


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This comment was edited on Dec 25, 21:50.

hehe i can't figure out whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me

kotor 2 had lots of bugs in it, and the last patches that i applied to the game before finishing it never fixed the major issues that i faced with the game.

i can vaguely remember a couple of silly things with it;

one was a quest on one of the planets where i killed off a story character and had to reload from the beginning of that plane and avoid killing him to progress in the game.

another was a fight in which the sidekick pilot had to kill 2 identical twin females (or something like that) which could not be done without using an exploit.

one thing i clearly remember was that some dialogue subtitles were wrong and had wrong spellings. small issue, definitely, but it was very tacky.

people actually looked through the content files of the game and found speech files that implied further twists to the storyline and an alternate ending, if i remember correctly. there was even a mod team which was supposed to remake parts of the game based on this content, but i think that mod died out.

it was a shame because this was the sequel to one of the best rpgs i have played in a long time, and definitely the best star wars game in recent times (yes even better than jedi outcast imho)

troika... well i just feel sad for them. great game designers, lousy coders. at least 2 games of theirs that i played (temple of elemental evil and vampire bloodlines) were ruined by poor coding and hence their demise because it took too much away from the games. but i must say that vampire bloodlines was one of the best rpgs i played this year, inspite of all the issues it had.

i forget which group of developers formed obsidian, but they were from a good breed. (was it fallout?), and hence i would like to believe that they will do something good with nwn2, not least because i absolutely love nwn. i think its actually a function of the publishers... lucasarts rushed kotor 2 and hence it wasn't as good as it could have been.i hope bioware (or whoever is publishing nwn2) doesn't do the same with this game.

Spindoctor, KOTOR 2 has been the first Lucasarts game I've owned in a long time that didn't get continued patches to fix the problems with the game. Also the first Lucasarts game that has patches done for it by the community to fix the bugged quests. Hell even the Xbox version had bugs out the ass.

And there are certain companies (troika, taldren) that no matter which publisher they go with just can't release a decent bug free game. So only time will tell.

But one of the features I read about awhile ago when IGN had the first screen shots of NWN 2, was that all outside texturing etc will be more like a paint program instead of tileing.

I can't see how they can make it suck. I mean alot of people didn't like the story to the first NwN ( I quite enjoyed it ) but that didn't stop it from becoming as popular as it is today.

what kind of reasoning is this?? the fact that something is popular doesnt mean it still doesnt suck... look at britney spears or madonna

and yes, i think they will fuck this game up because it is quite clear to me that obsidian sux balls as game devs

its a damn shame that the commercial RPG genre has fallen - trust me, no one mourns it more than me.... but really, our current choices are bleak

our marketshare is too small, we just dont have the buying power to generate mass market support for the games of yore... the crowd that actually wants complexity, and depth, and challenge - and doesnt mind reading thousands upon thousands of lines of text

so instead we get a bunch of homogenized, craptastic "McRPGs"

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Speaking as someone who didn't care much for NWN, I'm actually looking forward to this, if only because I hear you can actually individually control most of your party this time around. Having AI teammates is pretty damn retarded in an RPG, if you ask me, whether it's NWN or Final Fantasy XII - that's a trend that needs to be nipped in the bud.

I cannot count the hours I spent with NWN, so many great modules and the retail expansions were also great. Bring it on!!

Agreed. At its worst, NWN2 will be a prettier NWN1. Which is not a bad thing at all.

I can't see how they can make it suck. I mean alot of people didn't like the story to the first NwN ( I quite enjoyed it ) but that didn't stop it from becoming as popular as it is today.

just wondering... this is the second time obsidian is doing an rpg sequel (after kotor 2). as we all know, kotor 2 wasn't the game it could have been (thanks to lucasarts pushing for an early release). is it possible that nwn2 might go down the same path? that would suck because these are 2 of my favorite rpg franchises...

Can I have Oblivion, Gothic 3, and NWN2 now please?

Though it is kind of depressing that I think those are the only real RPGs coming out this year... and at least one is bound to be a major let down.

The only other RPGs I can recall reading about had press releases in broken english, I don't generally expect a lot from an RPG (or any other game) when that happens.