SWAT 4 Expansion Revealed

10-David has some details about plans for a SWAT 4 expansion from a post to the VUG forums based on an article in Computer Gaming World magazine, saying they've been able to unofficially confirm the unannounced project though their insider contacts. Word is the add-on is in the works at Irrational Games Australia (even though SWAT 4 was created by Irrational Boston) and a release is expected in February 2006. They have some details from the print article on the add-on, including new weapons like sniper rifles and grenade launchers, as well as glow sticks for throwing simulated raves.
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53.
 
Quit blaming Irrational
Aug 31, 2005, 22:57
53.
Quit blaming Irrational Aug 31, 2005, 22:57
Aug 31, 2005, 22:57
 
When you try to please the masses you risk alienating your fanbase (Tribes community), they gambled that if they "streamlined" it, the tribes community would buy it and so would the masses... But as it turned out neither did the community buy it nor the masses. So they gambled and they lost. Had they listend to the community at least the community would have bought it, and maybe even the masses as well. That's why IG has fault in it as well.

Look at Deus Ex Invisible War. Another example of what happens when you "streamline" to please the masses, you alienate your community.

Well said. Although Tribes folks must stop blaming IG. IG was simply doing what they were hired to do. They implementd a good SP, which VU felt was needed to make the title succesful. (VU is so clueless about this franchise its disgusting).

Most of the blame is due to the fucked history of the franchise which has been through the burner because of VU, and very stupid production decisions for Tribes ever since the release of Tribes 2. TV hardly had a chance because it had a piss poor funding and was simply squeezed onto the market because of some major pleading by various insiders who love the franchise.

What many who dont play Tribes dont understand, is that VU has been trying to force changes to the game to dumb it down and make it more inviting to the masses or new players ever since they took over the franchise with tribes 1. They felt it was too complex and hard for new players. I ask you Mr Half-Life CS player, Mr Civilization player, Mr BF2, Mr Quake. How the hell would you feel if your franchise was constantly being dumbed down in various ways simply to make it easier for new players? How would you like it if everything in Half-Life CS was reduced down to 1 gun, one gernade and a knife? How about limiting mod scripting in the game? This is what has been happening to Tribes ever since VU took over. Why is Tribes considered so hard and complex when other franchises like BF2 are very complex, rich in features and popular? I don't see them dumbing down the Battlefield franchise very much. Its because the original developers of those franchise are still in control. Tribes has been severed from its makers for years.

When Tribes 2 came out, there was huge anticipation for the game. Problem is that VU in control over the games production decided to change the speed factor in the game which was a major letdown to its MARKET (Tribes players) and the fact that Tribes 2, although well designed was flawed by an unfinished release that brought ill will bugs and endless patches (BF2 players are getting a good feel of what it was like owning Tribes 2 when it first came out).

If Tribes 2 was simply released in more of a gold status without the reduced speed, the franchise would probaly still be flourishing. It actually became a very good game after being patched many times and with player based modifications such as Tribes 2 classic.

Years later after the T2 mess, TV was released on a little budget, developed with the SP in mind (hence the hiring of Irrational games) and like T2, it was obvious on release that the most important aspect to its market, the Mulitplayer piece, was unfinished. To top that off, so many features of the game were removed it was unbearable for some. The other bad decsions was building the game on the old unreal engine.

Still with all that, dont blame Irrational, blame the folks at VU who are completely clueless about the franchise, its nuances, its following etc. Tribe is no way near dead. Its game concept is still unmatched by anything on the market. Its just that VU doesnt get it. The Xerox factor. So now we have a publisher who is afraid to approach the franchise because they dont understand it, and its frozen in state because they own it. No better production and dev team can touch it.

If Tribes is so worthless how about VU let go the franchise for cheap. I mean it is worthless right? Garage Games please take it back...please. Hell Id rather Microsoft own the franchise over VU.

This comment was edited on Aug 31, 23:11.
52.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 31, 2005, 22:55
52.
Re: No subject Aug 31, 2005, 22:55
Aug 31, 2005, 22:55
 
It seems Irrational pretty much had their hands tied with regards to releasing any unofficial patch, according to this response from VUG.

Thank you, I rest my case.

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51.
 
Re: Red Baron 2
Aug 31, 2005, 22:47
51.
Re: Red Baron 2 Aug 31, 2005, 22:47
Aug 31, 2005, 22:47
 
I never bothered with RB3D, and wish I could find my RB2 disc but think it was tossed recently.


The more I think the more I remember complaints. Like clouds. RB had 3D clouds you could hide in. RB2 didn't. How did the sequel take such a step backwards? Cloud cover was a huge part of RB, but RB2 couldn't handle them? You'd see clouds in the sky, but they were simply parts of the texture.

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50.
 
Re: Red Baron 2
Aug 31, 2005, 21:38
nin
 
50.
Re: Red Baron 2 Aug 31, 2005, 21:38
Aug 31, 2005, 21:38
 nin
 
I also bet the RB2 developers would have been stunned into silence if they saw screens of Full Canvas Jacket ( http://www.plgrafix.com/ ) when they were making RB2, and were told that one day their sim would look that good! (speaking relatively of course, some of the community patches -- payware and freeware both -- perform minor miracles...)

Never heard of that site, but it looks badass...do you have to have a copy of RB23D to run those? Or is it all included in the $30 he wants?

Very tempted to order...






--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 10 W/Mo

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This comment was edited on Aug 31, 21:41.
49.
 
Red Baron 2
Aug 31, 2005, 21:30
49.
Red Baron 2 Aug 31, 2005, 21:30
Aug 31, 2005, 21:30
 
And with Red Baron 2 they damn near had to [...] RB2 was unplayable. The game was broken beyond belief.
Ah, fair comment. I had actually forgotten about the issues RB2 had on release. I read the reviews, but I didn't have a PC that would run the thing at the time. I bought RB2 later on once I'd upgraded my PC and immediately patched it to its 'RB3D' form, so I never experienced those bugs myself.

Still, it turned out well in the end. It's almost incredible that such an old sim still holds the attention of so many virtual pilots (although doubtless more because there really hasn't been a good WW1 sim since... sigh... Knights Over Europe was looking so good...)

I also bet the RB2 developers would have been stunned into silence if they saw screens of Full Canvas Jacket ( http://www.plgrafix.com/ ) when they were making RB2, and were told that one day their sim would look that good! (speaking relatively of course, some of the community patches -- payware and freeware both -- perform minor miracles...)
This comment was edited on Aug 31, 21:33.
48.
 
Re: Swat 4
Aug 31, 2005, 21:24
nin
 
48.
Re: Swat 4 Aug 31, 2005, 21:24
Aug 31, 2005, 21:24
 nin
 
THE SINGLE PLAYER FOR TRIBES:V DID NOT SUCK!!!

Well it bored the hell out of me...

--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 10 W/Mo

Don't look at me that way. It was An Honest Mistake. http://www.thebravery.com/
47.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 31, 2005, 21:10
47.
Re: No subject Aug 31, 2005, 21:10
Aug 31, 2005, 21:10
 
Irrational was't told to put bugs in the game.

They certainly weren't give the development time required to properly make the game bug free. Same result, different way of going about it.

46.
 
Re: Swat 4
Aug 31, 2005, 21:01
46.
Re: Swat 4 Aug 31, 2005, 21:01
Aug 31, 2005, 21:01
 
THE SINGLE PLAYER FOR TRIBES:V DID NOT SUCK!!! It was a fantastic game, mostly all the professional reviews rave about. The average score for the game as a whole on Game Rankings was 82% and it's well deserving. So if you hate the game or not it did NOT SUCK!

"When all thats left is console gaming, I will game no more."
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45.
 
No subject
Aug 31, 2005, 21:00
45.
No subject Aug 31, 2005, 21:00
Aug 31, 2005, 21:00
 
Irrational or any one of the team members could have released an "unofficial" patch

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375587

It seems Irrational pretty much had their hands tied with regards to releasing any unofficial patch, according to this response from VUG.

44.
 
Re: Swat 4
Aug 31, 2005, 20:43
44.
Re: Swat 4 Aug 31, 2005, 20:43
Aug 31, 2005, 20:43
 
I may get flogged for this, but Half Life.
Valve more than negated its free addons of Team Fortress, Deathmatch Classic, and Ricochet (only one of which is actually worth playing) for Half-Life 1 by forcing users to use Steam to continue to play the game.


43.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 31, 2005, 20:28
43.
Re: No subject Aug 31, 2005, 20:28
Aug 31, 2005, 20:28
 
Irrational did what they were told
Irrational was't told to put bugs in the game. It wasn't told to make horrendously stupid AI even on the highest difficulty setting, and I seriously doubt that Vivendi wrote the inane story for the single-player game given that the Irrational developers talked about it at length in pre-release interviews.

Vivendi may have chosen not to pour any more money into the game after release, but Irrational actually created the game and did a damn poor job at it. Irrational even had a second chance to fix the problems in an update, but instead released something which fixed almost nothing.

This comment was edited on Aug 31, 20:29.
42.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 31, 2005, 20:16
42.
Re: No subject Aug 31, 2005, 20:16
Aug 31, 2005, 20:16
 
Instead they dumbed the game down
Tribes Vengeance is no more or less simplified than most other sci-fi shooters like UT2004. I actually like the easier skiing mode. The main problems with the game are the gameplay bugs, the missing and incomplete features like the web admin interface and buggy dedicated server, and the broken tools (The editor crashes way more than the version of UED in UT2004, some menus don't work, and you can't even export the scripts).

used a crappy engine
There's nothing wrong with the engine itself. It's basically Unreal v2 with Havoc physics and pixel shaders added. Irrational just didn't finish the code for the game and the tools.

focused on single player
I have to agree that the single-player game in Tribes Vengeance sucks. Yes the graphical presentation of the game is alright, e.g. the models look good, are decently animated, and have good lipsyncing and the levels are laid out decently, but the AI is horrible, and the story itself is ridiculous even by "B" movie science fiction standards.

Irrational is responsible for these problems because it is the one which created them. The reason why it won't fix them is because Vivendi won't pay Irrational to do it, and Irrational won't do the work for free even though I think that workman's pride and industry reputation should be enough motivation to fix at least the major problems.


41.
 
Re: Swat 4
Aug 31, 2005, 19:39
41.
Re: Swat 4 Aug 31, 2005, 19:39
Aug 31, 2005, 19:39
 
Can you name some other games that were supported like this? The only one that springs to my mind as even vaguely similar is Red Baron 2 (also a Sierra release incidentally). RB2 had excellent Massive Multiplayer support added post-release, along with a free patch which turned it into "Red Baron 3D" (which was a Glide-enhanced update and re-release of the game).


I may get flogged for this, but Half Life.



And with Red Baron 2 they damn near had to. The original ranks as one of my favorite games ever. RB2 was unplayable. The game was broken beyond belief. Take off, put time compression and autopilot on and your would just circle the airfield as your squadron flew away. That bug alone killed a ton of the fun, and it wasn't even the worst.

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40.
 
Re: Swat 4
Aug 31, 2005, 19:36
40.
Re: Swat 4 Aug 31, 2005, 19:36
Aug 31, 2005, 19:36
 
When Swat 3 was first released it was single player only. For ABSOLUTELY FREE they released a massive multi-player patch. For ABSOLUTELY FREE they released new weapons, skins, and maps for years after.
Yep, and it remains probably the most impressive game support I've ever seen. Just because something that great happened with ONE GAME hardly means that all publishers are bastards for not doing it every time.

Can you name some other games that were supported like this? The only one that springs to my mind as even vaguely similar is Red Baron 2 (also a Sierra release incidentally). RB2 had excellent Massive Multiplayer support added post-release, along with a free patch which turned it into "Red Baron 3D" (which was a Glide-enhanced update and re-release of the game).


As for T:V, I distinctly remember that the team were said to be working with one or two key members of the "Tribe's Community". Now you might argue that those members obviously weren't representative of the game, but I think it's probably fair to say that it would be bloody difficult to get a representative member of the Tribes community.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't, I suspect.

39.
 
Swat 4
Aug 31, 2005, 15:33
39.
Swat 4 Aug 31, 2005, 15:33
Aug 31, 2005, 15:33
 
This expansion pack is nothing more than what should have been included in the game originally. Cooperative gameplay was just "tacked on" as an after-thought because VUG wanted a game that appealed to the masses (Team Deathmatch). They even admitted this in interviews.

Swat4's coop blows monkey chunks compared to Swat 3. This so called expansion pack just fixes the things that should have been in there from the beginning.

When Swat 3 was first released it was single player only. For ABSOLUTELY FREE they released a massive multi-player patch. For ABSOLUTELY FREE they released new weapons, skins, and maps for years after.

Do not be fooled. This expansion pack is nothing more than a patch that should also be FREE.

I feel bad for you Tribes fans because IG completely misunderstood your game also and VUG left it in a mess patch-wise. So far we have only had one lame patch for Swat 4 and now they are asking for more money for more patches. Since Swat 4 sold a lot more than Swat 3 you would think we would get even better service than we got with that game.

38.
 
No subject
Aug 31, 2005, 15:29
38.
No subject Aug 31, 2005, 15:29
Aug 31, 2005, 15:29
 
all Im sayin Ray - is that the gfx and all that was SOOOO besides the point

yeh, IMHO Id have to say that the Tribes concept is the best team-based FPS type game ever... i worship the jet packs and the whole skiing thing - add in the spinfusors and deployables and all the inv gear and its just killer... its just a totally different vibe than anything else out there

for me - its the pinnacle of teambased FPS fun

thats not to say another game (that ripped off the concept) couldnt be just as good or better

namely, some kind of anime mecha style game with transformable mechs or something could improve on the formula in many ways... really fast, like a teambased Virtual On with tactical and RPG aspects, fully destructible geometry and realistic physics... drool drool

ok, im awake again... back to life, back to reality

at least Oblivion is coming

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37.
 
Re: No subject
Aug 31, 2005, 15:24
37.
Re: No subject Aug 31, 2005, 15:24
Aug 31, 2005, 15:24
 
I think the Unreal engine is more suitable for the walk, run strafe style of games like SWAT 4. Its a horrible engine for the physics and net demands of a game like Tribes. I dont have hate for Irrational, but they wern't really the right dev team for Tribes. It needs to be folks from Garage Games or devs familiar with all the little nuances of Tribes, one of the best MP games ever.

36.
 
Re: GW (was Re: Ray almighty)
Aug 31, 2005, 15:15
36.
Re: GW (was Re: Ray almighty) Aug 31, 2005, 15:15
Aug 31, 2005, 15:15
 
Actually, I have moved yet again so have just been getting rid of all the stuff I have beaten and getting back to the (slower, crappier) games I have not completed. Thief and System shock I have just because I love them.

Mostly, there just is not anything for me to play at the moment. Well, all until the stupid Christmas rush:

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=59729&id=262158&boardid=1&view=threads
Prey - GotY! I said it here!
Wanting Prey and Indigo Prophecy the most,
Ray

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35.
 
Re: T:V debacle
Aug 31, 2005, 15:13
35.
Re: T:V debacle Aug 31, 2005, 15:13
Aug 31, 2005, 15:13
 
Well, same thing.

That is going from "I have Uber hardware...that runs like crap in your system" to "I have Uber hardware...that run slike crap in your system...so I have to use ghetto software mode."

Note that I have no love for 3DFX/glide.
I hate the original Unreal because of that, too!
Also, I got out of PC gaming for a bit and came back in with Half-Life. Relatively, some of the "known" games just did not hold up well in my virgin gaming eyes.

Noting it is the princible of the matter (and I am a stubborn mofo,)
Ray

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Everything is awesome!!!
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I love you, mom.
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34.
 
Re: GW (was Re: Ray almighty)
Aug 31, 2005, 15:08
34.
Re: GW (was Re: Ray almighty) Aug 31, 2005, 15:08
Aug 31, 2005, 15:08
 
For mission after mission, I am saying that I have nothing else to do (and, again, raised the question of my missing something.)

nin dragged my ass to Yak's and said something like "A ton of missions here"...and I ended up getting 3 from the prince. One of those led me to the dwarf dude (has you do all the crap in the mines) that got me two, maybe three more, but then that was it. I did a misison...took me to another mission area, but with no other quests. Do that mission...and it took me to another missions again, but with no other quests.

Starting out, Ascalon or that area gave me, what, twenty quests? Now, in one town and three missions areas, I have had like six quests. That is the "rushing" aspect I was referring to.

I would love to log in right now and do some quests, but I have none available to me nor do I seem to have any popping up in the previous areas I have explored. Hence, for right now, all I have is the bonus ice dragon and then moving on to the next mission area thingie.

Heh - for reference, I got my toon to level eleven or so before I even did missions.

"nin - like, what is the point of these cooperative mission areas? I see a lot of people, but nobody giving a quest"

"Er...Ray, you see the 'enter mission' button in your party frame?"

"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

"%$@#$#5 Ray - RTFM!"

"/no"



Well, the game is a bit limited and now the quests are drying up, but I am hoping I just found a bad area. Otherwise, I will hit twenty (I think I am at fourteen or fifteen now,) play it for a little bit more, and then relegate it to NWN status (ie play it once in a blue moon or when stupidly bored.)
WHERE ARE ALL THE GOOD SWORDS, DAMN IT!
Thinking dwarves are just gnomes that are too lazy to shave...,
Ray

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Everything is awesome!!!
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I love you, mom.
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