SWAT 4 Expansion Revealed

10-David has some details about plans for a SWAT 4 expansion from a post to the VUG forums based on an article in Computer Gaming World magazine, saying they've been able to unofficially confirm the unannounced project though their insider contacts. Word is the add-on is in the works at Irrational Games Australia (even though SWAT 4 was created by Irrational Boston) and a release is expected in February 2006. They have some details from the print article on the add-on, including new weapons like sniper rifles and grenade launchers, as well as glow sticks for throwing simulated raves.
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93 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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73.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 08:54
73.
Re: No subject Sep 1, 2005, 08:54
Sep 1, 2005, 08:54
 
Messiah
That game was from the same developer that made "Enter The Matrix." So, I think we now know where the real problem with Messiah lay.

72.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 08:45
72.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 08:45
Sep 1, 2005, 08:45
 
You have obviously never played Tribes2...
Tribes Vengeance is not Tribes 2 nor should it be. There are plenty of things to use and do in Tribes Vengeance without having to recreate Tribes 2. If you want to play Tribes 2, play Tribes 2.

the scripting in past tribes games was/is more powerful and easier to use when compared to the Unreal engine.
Tribes scripting is not more powerful. As for easier, it depends upon what you are used to. For the Tribes community, yes, UnrealScript would have a learning curve. Those with a history in Unreal games find UnrealScript easier to use.

The fact of the matter is that T:V is not MOD friendly at all. Thus, I stand by my previous statement.
Nor do I dispute it as I stated the same thing (in more detail no less).

"Server side maps" meaning there is nothing for the client to download at all. Do you understand what that means?
Yes, it means that the map is already located on the client as the maps which come with the game are. You can't have sophisticated maps with unique textures and structures without getting that content to the clients. Whether the server pushes it to the client or the client downloads it before joining is irrelevant to the fact that the client must have the content to display it. Any Unreal engine map which doesn't have any unique content is relatively tiny and can be pushed or redirected to a client quite quickly.

It shouldn't be up to any community to tweak/fix the fucking game
Tweaking is not fixing. For example, all players may not agree on how powerful a particular weapon should be, but that doesn't mean the weapon is broken.


71.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 08:40
71.
Re: No subject Sep 1, 2005, 08:40
Sep 1, 2005, 08:40
 
Cite some exmaples.

Messiah - That game would not run at all. But for the most part I think their support was average.

I don't play video games... I play murder simulators.
http://bf2tracker.com/bf2_userprofile.php?bf2id=43526450
70.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 08:32
70.
Re: No subject Sep 1, 2005, 08:32
Sep 1, 2005, 08:32
 
You kidding? Interplay was infamous for releasing buggy games and then only producing one patch before dumping the game and leaving it in bad shape.
Cite some examples. The only Interplay games I ever owned were the Descent series and Interplay's Star Trek series of games and both received adequate support and patching from my perspective. Certainly no worse than I have seen for most other games.

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 08:47.
69.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 08:29
69.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 08:29
Sep 1, 2005, 08:29
 
Tribes Vengeance has plenty of vehicles, weapons, and packs to make for a good multiplayer game.

*rolls eyes*

You have obviously never played Tribes2...

Let me tell you there is nothing like getting together with 2 other guys doing bombing runs... Having a good tailgunner with a sensor jammer pack was essential.

That's just one example... I could go on because I actually played the game.

LOL! You apparently know very little about the Unreal engine. "Limited scripting"? That's a riot. Look at all the mods and mutators which have been created for UT2003/4 through nothing but scripting, i.e. UnrealScript. Tribes Vengeance could have this too if Irrational hadn't f*cked up the engine so badly.

"No server side maps"? The Unreal engine pushes maps and other content to the clients, and it works well for other Unreal games. Irrational just screwed up that in Tribes Vengeance so that redirection doesn't work.

"Difficult to modify"? The Unreal engine is great for mods. The problem here is that Irrational broke the editor and the scripting.

Again, you are not very familiar with the past tribes games and their engines - the scripting in past tribes games was/is more powerful and easier to use when compared to the Unreal engine. No doubt the Unreal tools are great... for Unreal type game-play.

The fact of the matter is that T:V is not MOD friendly at all. Thus, I stand by my previous statement.

"Server side maps" meaning there is nothing for the client to download at all. Do you understand what that means? This was another valuable feature for server admins which the unreal engine doesn't support.

What Irrational should have done is make a game which functions much better than it does. Tribes diehards will always complain about changes made to the gameplay. However, those things could have been tweaked through mods and mutators if Irrational had not broken the damn engine and tools.

It shouldn't be up to any community to tweak/fix the fucking game. I agree though, the game/engine should have functioned better... it should have functioned more like the Torque engine.

I don't play video games... I play murder simulators.
http://bf2tracker.com/bf2_userprofile.php?bf2id=43526450
68.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 07:33
68.
Re: No subject Sep 1, 2005, 07:33
Sep 1, 2005, 07:33
 
You kidding? Interplay was infamous for releasing buggy games and then only producing one patch before dumping the game and leaving it in bad shape.

Considering that Swat 4 sold as well as it did there is no excuse for lack of patches or the addition of missing features that the developers claim they ran out of time and could not originally include.

Instead they plan to release an expansion pack and are charging customers for what amounts to a patch. We have seen a new low with PC games.

67.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 06:44
67.
Re: No subject Sep 1, 2005, 06:44
Sep 1, 2005, 06:44
 
This is worse support than Interplay!
I never had a problem with Interplay support (until the company's website disappeared) because at least Interplay allowed its developers to release their own game patches even if they were always not always officially supported.

66.
 
No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 06:38
66.
No subject Sep 1, 2005, 06:38
Sep 1, 2005, 06:38
 
Based on traffic received to our customer support centers and the expertise of our QA staff we are confident that SWAT 4 does not require further patching.

That quote was Greg in a recent interview (I assume they mean VUG-Greg who was part of the Tribes fiasco.

One tiny lame patch and they have already dumped Swat 4.

This is worse support than Interplay!

65.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 06:35
65.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 06:35
Sep 1, 2005, 06:35
 
especially with T2 where larger games would be played with 40+ players using vehicles and such.
I personally don't mind a 32 player limit. I have played in many large UT2004 onslaught games, and the maps and player limit are plenty big. An objective-based multiplayer game for UT2004 using the weapons, vehicles, characters, and physics from the Tribes universe would be a fun game even if it is not one which all Tribes purists would embrace. I think that is what Tribes Vengeance was supposed to be. The real problem is that it's not.

In regards to Unreal. The older engine used in TV is horrid. I'm sorry but it not the best for networked games especially with a lot of players on a server.
Tribes Vengeance is built upon a revision of the Unreal engine between UT2003 and UT2004. It is well known that UT2003 does not handle vehicle physics well, e.g. Unreal 2 XMP, but as an Unreal licensee, Irrational could have and should have made use of the newer build of the engine or fixed the network code problems itself.

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 06:42.
64.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 04:51
64.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 04:51
Sep 1, 2005, 04:51
 
Unreal engine v2 maps can be plenty big. Just look at UT2004 onslaught maps. They may not be as big as Tribes 1 & 2 maps can be, but that is not what is really wrong with this game

Although some may argue the size of maps doesnt matter, in Tribes it DID matter to a lot of players. Its one example of how the makers of the game underestimated certain elements of the game that players loved, especially with T2 where larger games would be played with 40+ players using vehicles and such. The whole sense of free movement within the environement of Tribes is one of its trademark characteristics.

In regards to Unreal. The older engine used in TV is horrid. I'm sorry but it not the best for networked games especially with a lot of players on a server. Granted the TV engine is tweaked, but even Unreal 2 was pretty bad. TV did not use the engine for Unreal Tourney 2004. Perhaps Unreal 3 will be vastly better in terms of its network performance VS the eye candy we see.

63.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 04:39
63.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 04:39
Sep 1, 2005, 04:39
 
Even though Unreal has Unrealscript this was a tweked verion of the "older unreal engine" there was limited access to how you could script or modify the TV engine.
There are only limits because Irrational broke the tools. Users can't do as much as Irrational did with its own UnrealScripts because Irrational does not let them.

Also, its been made quite apparent that there were limits to what was possible with the engine Expansive maps for example) that caused various issues.
Unreal engine v2 maps can be plenty big. Just look at UT2004 onslaught maps. They may not be as big as Tribes 1 & 2 maps can be, but that is not what is really wrong with this game.

Even clancore, who is working on a major MOD for Starsiege decided it had to switch to Garage Games Torque TSE engine due to limitations with the TV engine.
Tribes Vengeance is not mod friendly, but the fault is not the Unreal engine. The fault is Irrational's poor implementation of it.


62.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 04:24
62.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 04:24
Sep 1, 2005, 04:24
 
Even though Unreal has Unrealscript this was a tweaked version of the "older unreal engine" there was limited access to how you could script or modify the TV engine.

Also, its been made quite apparent that there were limits to what was possible with the engine (expansive maps for example) that caused various issues.

Even clancore, who is working on a major MOD for Starsiege decided it had to switch to Garage Games Torque TSE engine due to limitations with the TV engine. What would be better. After all Torque is the engine made by the makers of the original Tribes and Tribes 2. Id's megatexture? Are you kidding me, Torques Atlas engine can span miles.

http://www.the-junkyard.net/index.php?action=linknews&id=1665

One thing many modern engines like Unreal cant handle is large immersive terrain. Add more than say 20 players and the engine chokes. That is why everything is boxed in. Perhaps Unreal 3 will change that, but for now we know Torque can handle that, and it sounds like ID is trying to move the Doom engine in that direction with ET Quake Wars using their announced megatexture technology. We were playing Tribes on an engine like that since 1997. They release TV and low and behold theres a damn hard grid around the map.

The only thing that hasnt been fully reralized on Torque is in the area of art. The engine seems bland looking to many, but thats just about art direction and the new TSE will change that quite a bit. Current demos and pics are more oriented toward the tech of the engine not the art abilities. Thats soon to change as GG moves toward promoting the art abilities of the TSE engine. A lot of engines like Unreal 3 are promoting the art of the engine with swanky pics, but the real test is how it performs ona full server with a lot of players. Choke.

http://www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=1013

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 04:43.
61.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 03:21
61.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 03:21
Sep 1, 2005, 03:21
 
They removed so many features (weapons, vehicles, packs, ect...) from Tribes2 it was sure to be a let down...
Tribes Vengeance has plenty of vehicles, weapons, and packs to make for a good multiplayer game.

Yeah there's nothing wrong with the engine unless you are using it for tribes... No more server side maps, limited scripting, difficult to modify, ect...
LOL! You apparently know very little about the Unreal engine. "Limited scripting"? That's a riot. Look at all the mods and mutators which have been created for UT2003/4 through nothing but scripting, i.e. UnrealScript. Tribes Vengeance could have this too if Irrational hadn't f*cked up the engine so badly.

"No server side maps"? The Unreal engine pushes maps and other content to the clients, and it works well for other Unreal games. Irrational just screwed up that in Tribes Vengeance so that redirection doesn't work.

"Difficult to modify"? The Unreal engine is great for mods. The problem here is that Irrational broke the editor and the scripting.

I never said the single player sucks...
No, but I did because it does especially when compared to other single-player shooters.

Instead of focusing on a single player game they could have worked on the multiplayer and then maybe there wouldn't have been so many issues at launch.
What Irrational should have done is make a game which functions much better than it does. Tribes diehards will always complain about changes made to the gameplay. However, those things could have been tweaked through mods and mutators if Irrational had not broken the damn engine and tools.

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 04:06.
60.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 03:11
60.
Re: No subject Sep 1, 2005, 03:11
Sep 1, 2005, 03:11
 
Thank you, I rest my case.
You have no case to rest. That quote only states that the source code couldn't be released to the public without Vivendi's and Irrational's approvals due to their ownership stakes in the code. It says nothing about what Irrational itself can do. You can bet your ass that if its approval were required, Vivendi would allow the release of an unofficial update to the game by Irrational. The only problem here is that neither Irrational nor Vivendi wants to pay to make one even though the fifty-thousand or more paying customers more than deserve it.

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 04:05.
59.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 1, 2005, 03:07
59.
Re: No subject Sep 1, 2005, 03:07
Sep 1, 2005, 03:07
 
They certainly weren't give the development time required to properly make the game bug free.
What a crock of sh*t! While a bug free game would be ideal, Irrational had plenty of time to eliminate the game's main bugs. Either incompetency or a lack of desire prevented it. If you don't have the manpower to meet a deadline, you bring in more people to get the job done. You don't turn out an unfinished product, collect your check, and move onto something else. That's unprofessional and shows poor work ethic even though it may be good for the bottom line in the short run.

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 03:45.
58.
 
Re: Red Baron 2
Sep 1, 2005, 02:09
58.
Re: Red Baron 2 Sep 1, 2005, 02:09
Sep 1, 2005, 02:09
 
Not really helpful...but I recall seeing one of the Red Baron games on CompUSA's rack 'o "ghetto games."

It was the four-sided stand that had much older games, all packaged in simple jewel cases and generally in the $5-$10 range.

Just an idea...
Not all stores have that stand, though...
Having no idea which version it was,
Ray

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I love you, mom.
Everything is awesome!!!
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57.
 
Re: Red Baron 2
Sep 1, 2005, 01:26
57.
Re: Red Baron 2 Sep 1, 2005, 01:26
Sep 1, 2005, 01:26
 
Never heard of that site, but it looks badass...do you have to have a copy of RB23D to run those? Or is it all included in the $30 he wants?

Very tempted to order...
You need RB3D. It's damned near impossible to find these days, but Wings of Valor will help you out.

http://www.wings-of-valor.net/

56.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Sep 1, 2005, 00:28
56.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Sep 1, 2005, 00:28
Sep 1, 2005, 00:28
 
Don't get me wrong, I think the unreal engine is really nice technology, and it's only going to get better!

I'm just sad and bitter that Tribes is dead...

I don't play video games... I play murder simulators.
http://bf2tracker.com/bf2_userprofile.php?bf2id=43526450
55.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Aug 31, 2005, 23:50
55.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Aug 31, 2005, 23:50
Aug 31, 2005, 23:50
 
This is only semi-related, but I think, even with all the work they have done to make it a commercial product, the UT engine just has a higher entry barrier. Looking back, relatively, the UT games and mods have never been on par with their Quake brethren.

Edit: At least in the "quality" department (how everything is implemented.) The Quake and, currently, Doom engines generally require higher levels of art assets.

I do not mean that as a slight, the Unreal games (barring U2 possibly) show that the engine can obviously be put to good use, but few other companies/mod makers ever get close to that same quality...

There are always stinkers, but relatively, the U/UT engines have always had many more (though that could just be an issue of economics - the cheaper engine being purchased more frequently by the lower end developers.)

Noting Lith, Build, and even Source (VtM:B) have similar issues,
Ray Those early Sin shots look a little flat, too.


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I love you, mom.
This comment was edited on Aug 31, 23:52.
Everything is awesome!!!
http://www.kindafunny.com/
I love you, mom.
Avatar 2647
54.
 
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes?
Aug 31, 2005, 23:15
54.
Re: Riley Pizt -Do you even play tribes? Aug 31, 2005, 23:15
Aug 31, 2005, 23:15
 
Tribes Vengeance is no more or less simplified than most other sci-fi shooters like UT2004. I actually like the easier skiing mode. The main problems with the game are the gameplay bugs, the missing and incomplete features like the web admin interface and buggy dedicated server, and the broken tools (The editor crashes way more than the version of UED in UT2004, some menus don't work, and you can't even export the scripts).

I'll admit those are some of the problems but the dumbed down gameplay was a problem too. They removed so many features (weapons, vehicles, packs, ect...) from Tribes2 it was sure to be a let down...

There's nothing wrong with the engine itself. It's basically Unreal v2 with Havoc physics and pixel shaders added. Irrational just didn't finish the code for the game and the tools

Yeah there's nothing wrong with the engine unless you are using it for tribes... No more server side maps, limited scripting, difficult to modify, ect...

I never said the single player sucks nor did I say the graphics suck. I liked both... well the colors were a little oversaturated for my tastes but whatever... Instead of focusing on a single player game they could have worked on the multiplayer and then maybe there wouldn't have been so many issues at launch.

I don't play video games... I play murder simulators.
http://bf2tracker.com/bf2_userprofile.php?bf2id=43526450
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