Federal Rockstar Probe

House backs federal investigation of Rockstar Games on GameSpot (thanks Frans) has word on further scaldings in the works over Hot Coffee and Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas:
Today's vote advanced House Resolution 376, introduced by Congressman Fred Upton (R-MI). In Upton's words, he is "leading the Congressional effort to determine if a best selling video game maker intentionally deceived the industry’s ratings board to avoid an 'Adults-Only' rating."

In a statement, Upton recently said he was "outraged by the brazenness of Rockstar Games in their effort to do an end-run around the ratings system.... Rockstar Games’ deceit has severely undermined the integrity of the ratings system."
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158 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 5.
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78.
 
Re: No subject
Jul 26, 2005, 15:20
Kxmode
 
78.
Re: No subject Jul 26, 2005, 15:20
Jul 26, 2005, 15:20
 Kxmode
 
Hire Patrick Wildenborg

If I was in change of Rockstar what I would do is hire Patrick Wildenborg. Then I would have the PR department write a release that tells the media we have hire the Modder and will use his services to help us find loopholes, exploits and other problem and lock them down. Then they could say we will use his expertise in Grand Theft Auto 4: The "red line" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) to insure this sort of problem never happens again.


http://music.download.com/kxmode
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
77.
 
Re: No subject
Jul 26, 2005, 15:19
77.
Re: No subject Jul 26, 2005, 15:19
Jul 26, 2005, 15:19
 
WHAT THE HELL!? CANT CONGRESS DO SOMETHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN INVESTIGATE A DAMN VIDEO GAME COMPANY!? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME CONGRESS INVESTIGATED A MOVIE COMPANY BECAUSE OF A HIDDEN (GASP!) SEX SCENE!

76.
 
No subject
Jul 26, 2005, 15:19
76.
No subject Jul 26, 2005, 15:19
Jul 26, 2005, 15:19
 
I find it pretty hard to feel a lot of sympathy for Rockstar Games. If you want to but porn in your game, fine, but don't try to get around the rating system. Now congress is getting involved - and nothing good ever comes out of congress anymore.

Way to go Rockstar. Way to go. Your little prank will probably end up with a crack down on everybody.


Avatar 18037
75.
 
No subject
Jul 26, 2005, 15:15
75.
No subject Jul 26, 2005, 15:15
Jul 26, 2005, 15:15
 
Anyone know of any good GTA modders?
I have an idea for the next one.

GTA: DC ..........use your imagination. I would wan't to imply killing a government official with my own words, as it may end me up in stripes.

So I would just like to say, I want to play GTA: DC in all of it's glory. Special missions to certain locations around DC as a ........... nevermind....but the concept is there.

Because I am lazy and don't want to look into the details, can someone tell me who they lied to? Just the media right? The lie to the ESRB isn't clear (as stated previous example) but it isn't like Martha Stewart, they didn't lie to a grand jury.

/edit: Stupid smileys.
/edit2: At this posting rate, when I allow my blood pressure to sky rocket over this crap....I may just catch nin on the # of posts!

xXBatmanXx - Lance Corporal xXBatmanXx
http://www.bf2tracker.com/bf2_userprofile.php?bf2id=45215952
I play GTA and I am not a criminal and have no intenetions of comitting crimes.
This comment was edited on Jul 26, 15:22.
74.
 
Re: oh my god.
Jul 26, 2005, 15:13
nin
 
74.
Re: oh my god. Jul 26, 2005, 15:13
Jul 26, 2005, 15:13
 nin
 
In what context do you think they lied?

Well, at first they tried to claim mod authors created the whole deal. And that was a lie...and they've since come clean, but only after someone proved you could get the same content on the PS2 version (thus proving the content was on the disc).


It may come down to something technical.
It wasn't in the game but it was on the disc.
Does this mean we are going to have a full review of every game ever made?

If I had to guess, I'm betting devs will pay A LOT more attention to what's on the shipping disc, in the future.

Except R*.


--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 10 W/Mo

I have to apologize for the way I feel... http://www.nin.com
73.
 
Re: Well
Jul 26, 2005, 15:12
DDI
73.
Re: Well Jul 26, 2005, 15:12
Jul 26, 2005, 15:12
DDI
 
It's prophetic how the US is starting to become more like China/ communism of old and China is becoming more tolerant in it's own mysterious way. Actually, the more I think about the US the more it all comes into perspective…

Chicoms tolerant? Hahah that is the most absurd thing I've ever read. Do some reading about jailed dissidents, tibet, etc.

72.
 
Re: Well
Jul 26, 2005, 15:11
Kxmode
 
72.
Re: Well Jul 26, 2005, 15:11
Jul 26, 2005, 15:11
 Kxmode
 
And red text man! RED TEXT! Like, holy shit!

REDRUM... redrum...

http://music.download.com/kxmode
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
71.
 
Re: oh my god.
Jul 26, 2005, 15:09
71.
Re: oh my god. Jul 26, 2005, 15:09
Jul 26, 2005, 15:09
 
Well, we would, but the government isn't. I see Rockstar as guilty in this case, but it doesn't have to go to the fucking federal government for me. However, the ESRB should fucking bitchslap them for putting them on the hot seat over this.


Wow, never saw the day but I agree with everything creston has said, good post.

70.
 
Re: Well
Jul 26, 2005, 15:09
Kxmode
 
70.
Re: Well Jul 26, 2005, 15:09
Jul 26, 2005, 15:09
 Kxmode
 
Vic B. you need some anger management and counseling. You don't have the maturity to handle GTA:SA. I wish there was a SANITY CARD. People that are sane can buy mature/adults only games. Those are deemed retarded, mentally challenge, or just plain insane would have to buy this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007ZD79Y/qid=1122404933/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl63/102-8926310-3160949?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846


http://music.download.com/kxmode


This comment was edited on Jul 26, 15:10.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
69.
 
Re: Well
Jul 26, 2005, 15:06
69.
Re: Well Jul 26, 2005, 15:06
Jul 26, 2005, 15:06
 

Creston look out! He's backing up his words on you!

And red text man! RED TEXT! Like, holy shit!

68.
 
Re: oh my god.
Jul 26, 2005, 15:06
68.
Re: oh my god. Jul 26, 2005, 15:06
Jul 26, 2005, 15:06
 
No!

And don't get me wrong, I LIKE the GTA series. But like I said, it's about responsibility. When you or I are at work, we're responsible for the work we do. How that work is done, when it's done, how it's done, etc. They chose to create content. They also chose not to remove it from shipping discs. Those were their decisions. And now they're being raked over the coals about it. And I don't feel bad for them. They could have not created the content, and they could of removed the content, after they created it. But they didn't.

They made their bed. Now they get to lie in it...

I agree with you, it IS stupid to get the government involved. It IS rated MA. But if they leave that sort of stuff in the game, they shouldn't be surprised when someone finds it and raises a fit...


I think we are on the same level, I just don't agree to the depth of your argument.

In what context do you think they lied? I see it like this:
A form to fill out asks, "Does your game GTA:SA have any depicted sex acts in it?"
R* person answers truthfully "No" (not in the gameplay)

It may come down to something technical.
It wasn't in the game but it was on the disc.
Does this mean we are going to have a full review of every game ever made?

I see it going down like this:
Huge fine (Millions).
High fiving around capitol hill of a bunch of morons who have never seen a PS2 and really dont' even know what they are high fiving about.
Gaming industry take a hit.
Fine is passed down to the consumer.
Tighter restrictions are put on publishers and makers of games, and untlimatley, all of us suffer while the suits think they actually helped someone.

I stand up against this issue because I know it will make things worse for us.

/edit: Man....I should have used the red text.

xXBatmanXx - Lance Corporal xXBatmanXx
http://www.bf2tracker.com/bf2_userprofile.php?bf2id=45215952 (back online 7/14/05)

This comment was edited on Jul 26, 15:10.
67.
 
Re: Re: Re-election
Jul 26, 2005, 14:58
Kxmode
 
67.
Re: Re: Re-election Jul 26, 2005, 14:58
Jul 26, 2005, 14:58
 Kxmode
 
Actually what I'm advocating is DON'T vote, and then you don't have to be all pissed off because you got suckered. You should hear the people out here in California; they're livid over Arnold. This is coming from a well-liked person; action star; political outsider. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Its doesn't matter the person intentions. Honest or not, once they get into office they transform in a bunch of conniving, deceitful Mr. Hydes. There's NOTHING you can do about it. It happens to everyone in office. The sad fact is this is the form of government we're trying to cultivate over in Iraq. You think the Iraqis are pissed now; wait until 30 years from now when they have a bunch of My Hydes of their own, and their own form of angst talk radio discussing the wrongs of their leadership.

Actually come to think about it... that probably wouldn't be too bad.


http://music.download.com/kxmode

This comment was edited on Jul 26, 15:05.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
66.
 
Re: Well
Jul 26, 2005, 14:54
nin
 
66.
Re: Well Jul 26, 2005, 14:54
Jul 26, 2005, 14:54
 nin
 
Now it time to for me to back my words up you


Creston look out! He's backing up his words on you!



--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 10 W/Mo

I have to apologize for the way I feel... http://www.nin.com
65.
 
Re: Well
Jul 26, 2005, 14:51
65.
Re: Well Jul 26, 2005, 14:51
Jul 26, 2005, 14:51
 
'Crestin' you FUCKING idiot. I have put up with years of your constant razing me.

Now it time to for me to back my words up you damn B-grade garage attorney:

edit: thanks for pointing that out 'nin'

1) I AM IN FULL POSSESSION OF SAID "MOD(S)" that allow one to remove the The Sims 1 censor and allows you to walk around with your cock in full view in-house or to your Sim neighbors.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE BASING YOUR DISAGREEMENT WITH ME ON, BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. And it's obvious all you're trying to do is rally some kind of A-typical support from your BBS buddies.

2) I could care LESS if Rockstar had the offending code housed in dev whitebox systems or the code went into the production on CD/DVD purposely broken for retail distribution. THE FACT REMAINS IF YOU ALTER THE CODE i.e. pursuant to the EULA, which you agree to upon before installing the game. "You are in violation!". As well altering code via extracting it in part or whatever: case in point the "sacensor.exe" written for "hot_coffee_v2-1.zip".

SO FUCKING WHAT if there is partial code of something remnant in game. If I develop a game and I make REM statements amongst the code that says: "you're a dick". That doesn't make me liable unless I maliciously direct it at you personally with intent to defame you. Rockstar had no idea some zealot would do this and furthermore the game can be Mod'd knowingly or unknowingly. That does not make the designer responsible.

This is analogous to Colt Firearms and the infamous AR-15 mess politicians created that gave credence to the public allowing them to claim blame them for the manufacturing of a rifle and/or gun that can kill when we all know that a gun can be used to defend or offend.

As for the ESRB? They're are a selective joke for "Yesmen" like yourself that feel that you can't make a decision unless the establishment tells you what's good for you.

You're ideology shows in your last paragraphs:

Well, I think their taste and behavior are quite well shown in the games they produce. I don't think they're scum because of the Hot Coffee mod. I think the moral level in their games is absolutely rock bottom already, and the hot coffee thing isn't doing anything to change that. That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the GTA games, because I do, I think they're a great blast to play, and I think that as long as it's rated properly, any entertainment medium should be allowed to have titles such as these. The government is a bunch of hypocritical fucktards for going apeshit over the hot coffee mod, while ignoring the general gameplay of SA. And those few that DID bitch about the gameplay in SA, did they bitch the same over Boyz 'N Da Hood?

I DO think, however, that Rockstar is fucking STUPID because of the course they took in this.

1) Leaving it ON the disc, instead of removing it.
2) NOT telling the ESRB about it
3) When confronted with it, lying their fucking asses off to try to cast blame somewhere else
4) Only to finally have to cough up the truth.

Options 1-3 could and should have gone a lot smoother.

In the end, what the ESRB needs to do is very simple. Add a big blurb near the rating that states "Any modification made to the original game will invalidate this rating."
Done. That's it, that's all.

All Rockstar Games is doing is making games that emulate segments of Americana lifestyles: past and present. If you don't like it, go back to watching Disney channel and Leave it to Beaver. We live in a new age where facts cannot remain hidden very long. Although Rockstar has chosen a darker premise to exercise entertainment, fact remains it is FACT. The games content is obviously geared for 18 years and older and if adults can’t handle it they need to get out the kitchen.

YOU'RE A FUCKING JOKE MAN. You really need to shut the fuck up because you definitely are not the final analysis in providing solutions or answers.


This comment was edited on Jul 26, 15:06.
-The Dude-

Vic B.
64.
 
Re: oh my god.
Jul 26, 2005, 14:50
64.
Re: oh my god. Jul 26, 2005, 14:50
Jul 26, 2005, 14:50
 
Yea right. That parent should have to take parenting classes.

Which nobody is denying.

The ratings are a joke.

Again, which nobody is denying. However, Rockstar chose to LIE / HIDE this content from the ESRB. THAT is what the whole fuss is about. Not about the pathetic sexual activity that is more boring than an issue of Maxim magazine (which, btw, gets sold in Walmart.)

This is to say that they can't view IMPLIED sex or anime covered up boobs but can go to pound me in the ass prison and be raped?


Welcome to America!!!!

The shampoo commercials where the woman is having an orgasm in the shower because of her hair and hair product.

Hey man, those fucking shampoo commercials are the highlight of my day. DON'T TAKE AWAY MY SHAMPOO COMMERCIALS!!!!

Give it a rest!

Well, we would, but the government isn't. I see Rockstar as guilty in this case, but it doesn't have to go to the fucking federal government for me. However, the ESRB should fucking bitchslap them for putting them on the hot seat over this.

You see Rockstar as completely innocent. That's a different opinion. *shrug*

Creston

Edit : but at least there's the hope that you might find that one honest politician.

Hope is the first step on the road towards disappointment.
Warhammer 40K : Dawn of War

This comment was edited on Jul 26, 14:53.
Avatar 15604
63.
 
Re: Re-election
Jul 26, 2005, 14:47
63.
Re: Re-election Jul 26, 2005, 14:47
Jul 26, 2005, 14:47
 
We all know what's going on, and its pathetic.

Agreed. So if you are one of the people that are able to vote when his time comes up, then don't vote for a two-faced congressman like him. Chances are you'll end up voting for another two-faced congressman, but at least there's the hope that you might find that one honest politician.

62.
 
Re: oh my god.
Jul 26, 2005, 14:45
62.
Re: oh my god. Jul 26, 2005, 14:45
Jul 26, 2005, 14:45
 
There is a game out there all of us have (I think) I dont' know the title off of the top of my head, I want to say.......Delta Force? Maybe? Half Life. I forget. There is a wav file on the disc that was not used in the game where when your gun would jam your character would say "My fucking gun is jamming" yet it was never used in the game. Would this fall under the same thing?

Yes it would. However, if it were unlocked, most likely the game wouldn't receive a different rating for it, unless it's a game that has a E (Everyone) rating or something. If the game already has a T rating, swearing is allowed in it. And since 99% of all games are lumped in under that rating, and both Delta Force and Half Life (probably Delta Force) already shows people killing other people, they already have a T rating, and so there would be no difference.

If there was a wav file in there that said "Hotdamn, I fucked this vietnamese hooker up the ass! And she was only 14!" then I would expect the game to be classified as AO (and as child pornography) as soon as it came out, yeah.
And yes, the devs are responsible for that wav file.

Creston

Avatar 15604
61.
 
Re-election
Jul 26, 2005, 14:44
Kxmode
 
61.
Re-election Jul 26, 2005, 14:44
Jul 26, 2005, 14:44
 Kxmode
 
Today's vote advanced House Resolution 376, introduced by Congressman Fred Upton (R-MI). In Upton's words, he is "leading the Congressional effort to determine if a best selling video game maker intentionally deceived the industry’s ratings board to avoid an 'Adults-Only' rating."

In a statement, Upton recently said he was "outraged by the brazenness of Rockstar Games in their effort to do an end-run around the ratings system.... Rockstar Games’ deceit has severely undermined the integrity of the ratings system."

What many may not know is Congressman Fred Upton (Republican of Michigan) is going to be up for reelection.

"People of Michigan, VOTE for me! I have banned a bad, bad game that corrupts you children's minds and turns them into violent, killing machines! My opponent has not. This message has been approved by CONGRESSMAN Fred Upton. Republican. WINNER!"

We all know what's going on, and its pathetic.


http://music.download.com/kxmode
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
60.
 
Re: No subject
Jul 26, 2005, 14:39
60.
Re: No subject Jul 26, 2005, 14:39
Jul 26, 2005, 14:39
 
There isn't some hack you can apply to the Xbox and PS2 versions

Actually, yes there is.

Also as so many people have said, it's an 18+ game

17+, but I don't think anyone's questioning that, or that this entire thing is utterly and completely stupid. There are far worse things in the game already. That this one change alters the rating for the game is completely non-sensical.

What many of us disagree with, however, are the claims that Rockstar/Take2 shouldn't be held responsible for this content. That's absurd. They also lied about what was required to access the content, which was just stupid.

Should the game have been re-rated over this? Hell no. But think of the children!? The children shouldn't be playing this game in the first place; and if consensual sex is going to cause someone psychological trauma when the non-consensual sex and violence doesn't then you have a very fucked up person on your hands.

Are there a bunch of irresponsible parents out there? Hell yes. This does not, however, exclude Rockstar from being responsible as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.

59.
 
Re: oh my god.
Jul 26, 2005, 14:37
nin
 
59.
Re: oh my god. Jul 26, 2005, 14:37
Jul 26, 2005, 14:37
 nin
 
Get the picture?

No!

And don't get me wrong, I LIKE the GTA series. But like I said, it's about responsibility. When you or I are at work, we're responsible for the work we do. How that work is done, when it's done, how it's done, etc. They chose to create content. They also chose not to remove it from shipping discs. Those were their decisions. And now they're being raked over the coals about it. And I don't feel bad for them. They could have not created the content, and they could of removed the content, after they created it. But they didn't.

They made their bed. Now they get to lie in it...

I agree with you, it IS stupid to get the government involved. It IS rated MA. But if they leave that sort of stuff in the game, they shouldn't be surprised when someone finds it and raises a fit...






--------------------------------------------------------------
GW: Nilaar Madalla, lvl 20 R/Mo / Xylos Gath, lvl 10 W/Mo

I have to apologize for the way I feel... http://www.nin.com
This comment was edited on Jul 26, 14:42.
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