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Hot Coffee Klatch

Rockstar Games Statement (thanks Frans) has a reaction from the folks behind GTA to all the talk of the "hot coffee" sex mod for the game. They start off by saying "We fully support efforts to keep mature-rated video game content out of the hands of children," and go on to say: "We are disappointed by comments that misrepresent Grand Theft Auto, detracting from the innovative and artistic merits of the game. Unfortunately, the recent confusion only serves to suggest that games do not deserve the same treatment as other forms of creative expression. By promoting awareness, we can avoid propagating the fear and mistrust of a new entertainment medium." Meanwhile, Thompson Calls for ESA Pres Resignation on Kotaku has an Open Letter to the Members of the Entertainment Software Association from Jack Thompson, crusading attorney, who continues his attacks on the gaming industry by mentioning the Hot Coffee mod as well. In the letter he literally thanks the lord for an enemy like ESA president Doug Lowenstein before urging the association to jettison their head man in what can be comfortably described as a surprisingly hateful diatribe from the lawyer already known for such rhetoric. Thompson praises Senator Clinton's initiatives for trying to prevent a "calamity" he predicts will be "like Columbine to the factor of ten" while using most of his space to vehemently attack Lowenstein, in some cases personally, going so far as to invoke an analogy, albeit a vague one, to Hitler (long considered the benchmark of when internet arguments have lost any value).

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76. Re: Hot coffee Jul 15, 2005, 10:09 Creston
 
Lastly, why is clothed sex bad yet blowing heads off of innocent bystanders not?

Welcome to America!

Creston


 
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75. Re: No subject Jul 15, 2005, 07:00 Prez
 
Yeah, I saw a recent report on how Walmart strong-arms many a company into selling something at such a low price that the only way they can make a profit is to move their business overseas. The report mentioned China alot, land of the child-centric sweat shop. One could argue that the company could just decline to be sold at Walmart, but, really, how many companies can afford to NOT have their product sold at the world's largest retailer?

This comment was edited on Jul 15, 07:01.
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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74. Re: No subject Jul 15, 2005, 06:45 space captain
 
. Now, it's run like any other greedy corporational behemoth. Sad, really.

not really - my point is that it is run much worse than other greedy corporate behemoths.. and its put plenty of honest corps out of business

its the epitome of american consumerism gone bad

________________________
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73. Re: No subject Jul 15, 2005, 06:36 Prez
 
Walmart has moral values??? yet again we have someone on a message board talking purely out of their ass, and with great vigor

heres your moral values:

http://laplaza.org/~totem/humanrights.html


Actually, Walmart used to have some semblance of values, while Sam Walton was still alive. Now, it's run like any other greedy corporational behemoth. Sad, really.


 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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72. Re: Hot coffee Jul 15, 2005, 02:44 Sixis
 
I'm in the middle of playing GTA:SA now...I'm rather more disturbed by the British guy who can't stop playing with himself. He just whacked off while thinking of former PM Thatcher...how is the hot coffee more objectionable than that?!

On WoW - Sixis - 60 Paladin of Azure Brigade
On GW - Six Ix - Warrior/Monk of Blue Conclave
 
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71. Re: Hot coffee Jul 15, 2005, 01:21 The Half Elf
 
I love Walmart, where else can I get a 10 pack of bean and cheese burritos or chimichangas for 2.50!
Not to mention they typically have cheaper prices on pharmacy items, bathroom items, healthcare items etc.

Not to mention they always have Red Barron Pizza stuff cheap! And always cheaper on caffinated beverages, and alcoholic beverages.

And it's right next to the local EB/Gamestop. So I go pick up my new game, hop over to Wally World and get my food/caffine/niccotine and head home, and become a hermit for a week!

And the only thing Wal-Mart is moral about is music cds. As San Andreas was right on the shelf with the rest of the computer games.

Not to mention that when it was coming out for the PS2, they had advertisements out the ASS for it and Halo 2.


This comment was edited on Jul 15, 01:23.
 
Avatar 12670
 
Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite.
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70. Re: Hot coffee Jul 15, 2005, 01:03 Beamer
 
Walmart is the devil, I'll never step foot in one, and I pride myself on living rather far from any.


Their near monopoly on groceries has caused thousands of products to cease production.

 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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69. Re: Hot coffee Jul 14, 2005, 23:20 Camaro76
 
If they do not want kids playing it, label it “E” for Educational….problem solved.

Nothing else to see here you lookie loos. http://www.playboy.com

I modded your post to reveal the hidden sexual content. Shame on you! You perv!

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68. No subject Jul 14, 2005, 23:17 space captain
 
Walmart has moral values??? yet again we have someone on a message board talking purely out of their ass, and with great vigor

heres your moral values:

http://laplaza.org/~totem/humanrights.html

________________________
music from space captain:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/errantways_music.htm
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/invisibleacropolis_music.htm
 
Go forth, and kill!
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67. Ah... Jul 14, 2005, 23:15 B M
 
Ah... all is going according to plan. This silly sex scene is giving us more publicity than we could ever buy.  
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66. Welcome to Cawfee Taulk Jul 14, 2005, 22:51 The Half Elf
 
Is it really Cawfee, and is it Hawt? Taulk among yurselfs, disscuss.

Ahm gettin Vehclemphed.

 
Avatar 12670
 
Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite.
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65. Re: No subject Jul 14, 2005, 22:36 itzaaron
 
Walmart is basically the only retailer which does put morals before money since it already thinks it has plenty of money and marketshare.

I think you're sorely underestimating (or is it overestimating) Wal-Mart here. Wal-Mart does not care about moral values. But what it does care about is lower-middle and middle class mothers and elderly people. Wal-Mart will choose "moral" entertainment because they will not lose sigificant sales by doing so (they're huge, and any company that wants to make money will just put out a censored version of whatever it is they're selling), and because if they do not to so, soccer moms across the US will stop buying from them.

It's much more profitable for Wal-Mart to drive away some 20-year-old who would basically never shop at the store anyway while retaining his mother, her friends, and their friends than for the company to offend its customer base to sell a few video games.

 
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64. Re: No subject Jul 14, 2005, 20:47 Pornosaur
 
Yep just like EA left that southpark episode on the Tiger Woods playstation game a few years back. They wanted you to watch southpark, even though I think all the games came from shitty acclaim, who's last good game was the first wizard and warriors.

 
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63. Re: No subject Jul 14, 2005, 20:24 Squirmer
 
More generally, I can't believe all those American stores would refuse to carry a product intended for people over 18. That country really needs to lighten up.

 
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62. Re: No subject Jul 14, 2005, 20:11 Riley Pizt
 
This is Walmart.
Walmart is basically the only retailer which does put morals before money since it already thinks it has plenty of money and marketshare.

Are a few million in sales worth government trials and fines whenever you sell something to a minor?
Sometimes it is. For example, the relatively miniscule fine imposed by the FTC on CBS for the Janet Jackson incident during the Super Bowl is trivial compared to the advertising sold during the game. Sometimes it makes more sense and cents to simply sell first and pay the fine later. Some stores get caught selling cigarettes and liquor to minors and yet continue to do it.

This comment was edited on Jul 14, 20:16.
 
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61. Re: Hot coffee Jul 14, 2005, 20:05 Riley Pizt
 
Yes, it is voluntary, as are the movie ratings. That doesn't mean Hollywood runs out and ignores them.
Actually as the Hollywood Studios have pointed out each time the enforcement of ratings are brought up, it is the theaters which can choose to enforce them or not. Hollywood tries to get its films rated in a way that will bring in the most audience. Sometimes that is a PG-13 or PG rating, but sometimes the buzz generated by making the film R rated will actually make a film more successful.

Back around 5 years ago nearly everything was PG-13 because Hollywood wanted to avoid the ire of Congress.
Hollywood has been challenged over the lack of a legislated ratings system many times over the years, and each time it prevails based upon a combination of free speech arguments and lobbyist money.

Which is what video game manufacturers want to do. The last thing they want is to lose this voluntary system and get a mandatory one from Congress, so if they follow this voluntary one and play nice everything is ok.
No, what they do is fix the ratings to give the appearance of propriety and then start making significant campaign contributions to Congressmen on committees which can quash any potential legislation or water it down to be innocuous.

Which is why retailers follow what the ESRB says - they don't want Congress to start passing laws which could bring sanctions against them.
Retailers do what is best for the bottom line. If enough of the public wants something, they will supply it or someone else will spring up who will.

I don't see the U.S. government ever regulating the sales of video games based upon content given that music and movie sales have resisted and avoided similar legislation.

Does Best Buy carry porn, though? No. Would they carry AO? Probably not. Why? Because simply carrying it would piss off many more people than would buy it.
Sales of the Grand Theft Auto games demonstrate that more people buy them than just about every other game which greatly dwarfs the number of people who would object.

This comment was edited on Jul 14, 20:20.
 
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60. Re: No subject Jul 14, 2005, 19:50 Beamer
 
Only because they have never had to make that choice with a popular game.


This is Walmart. They won't even carry the new Willy Nelson album without changing it, and they banned Jon Stewart's book due to nudity.

The sales that would come in from an AO GTA are minimal compared to the cost of getting everything up to what the government would replace it with after public outcry hits the nation.

Are a few million in sales worth government trials and fines whenever you sell something to a minor? Do they really want to have to train all their salespeople and set up a carding system? Sure, they do it now, but violating it isn't a big deal.

 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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59. Re: No subject Jul 14, 2005, 19:50 Riley Pizt
 
the pre-existance of age regulation
Actually the lack of existing legal regulation on the sale of video games to minors in the U.S. is exactly why proponents of such legislation and opportunistic politicians who wish to curry favor with the public make such an issue over games like the Grand Theft Auto series.


 
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58. Re: Hot coffee Jul 14, 2005, 19:48 Beamer
 
There are no "federal ESRB standards," nor are there any federal laws in the U.S. which rate video games or prevent their sale based upon the ESRB rating. The entire rating system is voluntary

Those were the ESRBs words, not mine.

Yes, it is voluntary, as are the movie ratings. That doesn't mean Hollywood runs out and ignores them. Hell, back when Lieberman went crazy the number of R movies in theaters plummetted. Back around 5 years ago nearly everything was PG-13 because Hollywood wanted to avoid the ire of Congress.

Which is what video game manufacturers want to do. The last thing they want is to lose this voluntary system and get a mandatory one from Congress, so if they follow this voluntary one and play nice everything is ok.

Which is why retailers follow what the ESRB says - they don't want Congress to start passing laws which could bring sanctions against them.

I can find mention of Target, Toys R Us and Walmart not carrying AO, but not Best Buy. Does Best Buy carry porn, though? No. Would they carry AO? Probably not. Why? Because simply carrying it would piss off many more people than would buy it. Best Buy doesn't want people boycotting outside their store. Especially because that would cause governmental interest, and mandatory ratings are much harsher and less forgiving than optional ones.

 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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57. Re: No subject Jul 14, 2005, 19:46 Riley Pizt
 
You people don't understand even if the game is the most popular game ever, stores like Best Buy, Wal Mart and EB Games (Which I work for) will not carry it no matter what.
Only because they have never had to make that choice with a popular game.

 
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