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1.
 
Video Games and Rod Blowhardavich.
May 25, 2005, 10:13
1.
Video Games and Rod Blowhardavich. May 25, 2005, 10:13
May 25, 2005, 10:13
 
David Polus, you have been added to my list of "Good On Ya" people. I voted against Blagovitch, I don't plan on voting for him ever. He campaigned for this in his election, and while he kept it on the back burner until now, he showed it to the public to tell them "Yes, I'm still going to do this."

What's really sad is all the people who voted for it. They knew it was Unconstitutional, yet they still voted for it. Why? They didn't want to vote against a bill with children in mind, then have it used against them in future elections.

Not that it really matters. Somebody will file suit in Federal Court the minute the law gets signed.

2.
 
Dvorak
May 25, 2005, 11:05
2.
Dvorak May 25, 2005, 11:05
May 25, 2005, 11:05
 
But it's clear that it's the audience that wants these games.

That's true, but what I (we?) REALLY want is more violent films. I was so happy after I saw the Dawn of the Dead remake; there are much too few 18-rated (no children allowed) movies in the cinemas. Take AvP for instance, as it is, it's ok, but with some REAL 80's style violence, it woulda been great

3.
 
Re: Dvorak
May 25, 2005, 11:11
3.
Re: Dvorak May 25, 2005, 11:11
May 25, 2005, 11:11
 
You thought AvP was ok?

It perfectly illustrates your point, because it had NO violence. 90% of the characters died in a five minute span, leaving another 90+ minutes of you staring at... nothing.

4.
 
Re: Dvorak
May 25, 2005, 11:45
4.
Re: Dvorak May 25, 2005, 11:45
May 25, 2005, 11:45
 
An interesting perspective Dvorak took. A little different from the "Mind your own business stupid legislators" approach many of these articles take. I agree with him though that martial arts (he spelt it marshall I noticed) should be banned if they feel they can ban video games because of their "simulation" characteristics. But of course, martial arts "provide mental focus and discipline" and "they are told to never use them for improper purposes." Yeah, right and that will get through. These politicians are idiots, but I think this too shall pass. Originally, it was comic books, then movies, then TV and now reality TV and showed like Desperate Housewives are popular. Eventually, they'll find another media form to beat up on.

Parallax Abstraction
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Founder of StateOfGaming.org
Commentary & Discussion About the Video Game Industry and Its Future
Coming Soon
Founder of The Only Good Hellbinder Is A Dead Hellbinder Club - Now With 40% More Rengering
Parallax Abstraction
Twitch | YouTube | Podcast
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5.
 
One Long Week
May 25, 2005, 12:21
5.
One Long Week May 25, 2005, 12:21
May 25, 2005, 12:21
 
I'm devoting this whole week to it on my blog:
http://cathodetan.blogspot.com/

When I've got more time I'll have to read David's piece in more detail, it sounds like he's done quite a lot of research.

I think considering that an Illinois Senator got up and announced that gamers are pretty much en masse training to kill (since that's her only definition of video games), I'm surprised there isn't more widespread outrage on this. Personally I'm rather pissed as hell.

It's got wide support in the Illinois Congress though, and very few people are raising their hand to say anything against them. That's one of the big problems here. Jack Thompson can go on 60 minutes, but the game media seems to busy making up funny captions to Halo screenshots to notice.

6.
 
Re: One Long Week
May 25, 2005, 13:43
6.
Re: One Long Week May 25, 2005, 13:43
May 25, 2005, 13:43
 
I think considering that an Illinois Senator got up and announced that gamers are pretty much en masse training to kill (since that's her only definition of video games), I'm surprised there isn't more widespread outrage on this. Personally I'm rather pissed as hell.

Oh I am too, make no mistake about it. However, being Canadian, I don't have much pull with any American legislator. I regularly e-mail my Member of Parliament up here about this issue, but we've never really had legislation like this proposed here. I think the main problem as well is that these lawmakers are often inundated with e-mail like this:

"OMFG YR SO ST00PID!!!111 DONT BAN TEH GAMEZ J00 GHEY SENATAURS!!!!1111oneone"

Unfortunately, lawmakers have a tendency to lump every opponent of their ideas in with the lowest rung on the ladder. So if they even get a few fanboi style notes like this, they don't take any of us seriously. When you are proposing legislation that affects so many young people, it makes it harder for those with constructive arguments to get their point across. At least the rep from California had to water-down his bill to get it through.

Parallax Abstraction
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Founder of StateOfGaming.org
Commentary & Discussion About the Video Game Industry and Its Future
Coming Soon
Founder of The Only Good Hellbinder Is A Dead Hellbinder Club - Now With 40% More Rengering
Parallax Abstraction
Twitch | YouTube | Podcast
Avatar 13614
7.
 
Re: One Long Week
May 25, 2005, 13:52
7.
Re: One Long Week May 25, 2005, 13:52
May 25, 2005, 13:52
 
Yeah, one of the problems is that the most extreme views have gotten the most airtime (except for the occasional VG industry suit, who is more akin to saying "no comment").

Jack Thompson is a lunatic. I think the Illinois Senate is wildly out of touch with the subject material at hand. And we all know how rationale web forums stay

I've actually emailed a psychologist who has done a lot of work on violence and video games and seems to be about the only voice of reason from the alternate side I can find.

Canada huh. You guys still have plenty of room there, right?

8.
 
Re: One Long Week
May 25, 2005, 14:06
8.
Re: One Long Week May 25, 2005, 14:06
May 25, 2005, 14:06
 
Canada huh. You guys still have plenty of room there, right?

Oh yeah, tons. You know the funny thing? After George Dubya won his second term, the amount of traffic on the web site for Canada's Immigration Ministry went up something like 20 fold per day for over a month? I can't remember where I read that, but that really blew me away that so many people were seriously looking into our immigration procedures after he won. Our government is currently embroiled in a bribery scandal and was almost toppled in a budget vote last week, but I'd still say we're doing alright.

Parallax Abstraction
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Founder of StateOfGaming.org
Commentary & Discussion About the Video Game Industry and Its Future
Coming Soon
Founder of The Only Good Hellbinder Is A Dead Hellbinder Club - Now With 40% More Rengering
Parallax Abstraction
Twitch | YouTube | Podcast
Avatar 13614
9.
 
Re: One Long Week
May 25, 2005, 14:08
9.
Re: One Long Week May 25, 2005, 14:08
May 25, 2005, 14:08
 
By the way, I checked out your blog posts. Very cool. You're doing a good job of making strong points while not letting your passion for the issue get the better of you. Something I know I've been guilty of many times.

Parallax Abstraction
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Founder of StateOfGaming.org
Commentary & Discussion About the Video Game Industry and Its Future
Coming Soon
Founder of The Only Good Hellbinder Is A Dead Hellbinder Club - Now With 40% More Rengering
Parallax Abstraction
Twitch | YouTube | Podcast
Avatar 13614
10.
 
Since when...
May 25, 2005, 18:56
10.
Since when... May 25, 2005, 18:56
May 25, 2005, 18:56
 
Was GTA a simulator.

I think there is quite a lot of difference between the dual shock, and say, fucking a prostitute.

I Would like to make Dvorak my "Bitch" and make him play postal2 until he thought it was funny.

----------------------------
Yes, I abuse grammar for a proffesion.

----------------------------
Yes, I abuse grammar by opening my mouth.
11.
 
Re: Since when...
May 25, 2005, 20:37
11.
Re: Since when... May 25, 2005, 20:37
May 25, 2005, 20:37
 
I dunno, I actually did think it was pretty funny in parts.

Parallax Abstraction
Founder of StateOfGaming.org - Coming Soon
Commentary & Discussion About the Video Game Industry and Its Future
Parallax Abstraction
Twitch | YouTube | Podcast
Avatar 13614
12.
 
No subject
May 26, 2005, 01:05
Prez
 
12.
No subject May 26, 2005, 01:05
May 26, 2005, 01:05
 Prez
 
Does anyone really take lawyers and politicians seriously when they jump on the "Videogames Kill!" bandwagon? I have yet to hear of anybody who was indifferent before suddenly hearing all this demagoguery (ooh - big word!) and saying "Hey! They're right! Videogames are murder simulators!" Most rational people hear it and dismiss it.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
13.
 
Re: Since when...
May 26, 2005, 05:50
13.
Re: Since when... May 26, 2005, 05:50
May 26, 2005, 05:50
 
I laughed my head of playing Postal2, I would just like to make Dvorak see the humour in gratuitus violence.


(gratuitus: was that spelled right?)


------------------------
Yes I abuse grammar for a proffesion.

This comment was edited on May 26, 05:57.
----------------------------
Yes, I abuse grammar by opening my mouth.
14.
 
Re: No subject
May 26, 2005, 08:43
14.
Re: No subject May 26, 2005, 08:43
May 26, 2005, 08:43
 
Does anyone really take lawyers and politicians seriously when they jump on the "Videogames Kill!" bandwagon?

When they start putting it into law?

I think it's time to take them seriously then. This law defines video games as potentially harmful material, and not in an ethical sense. It basically says that video games can incite violent behavior. That's a lot different than labelling them merely offensive material (although it does that as well).

I wish we could ignore this for being silly, but this is almost certainly going to be signed into law - so I think it's time to pay attention.

15.
 
Re: No subject
May 26, 2005, 14:19
Prez
 
15.
Re: No subject May 26, 2005, 14:19
May 26, 2005, 14:19
 Prez
 
How many previous laws like this have been shot down? It will either never leave the floor or it will be declared unconstitutional. I have still faith in the principles this nation was founded upon. Censorship will never survive legislation, regardless of context. The day they stop working is the day I've lived too long.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
16.
 
Re: No subject
May 26, 2005, 18:18
16.
Re: No subject May 26, 2005, 18:18
May 26, 2005, 18:18
 
Well, this one has passed the house, passed the senate and is fully expected to pass the house again quickly and easily. Then it's just the gov's signature and this was his idea to start with.

It passed the house 91 to 19. It passed the house 52 to 5. It did this largely because game media has ignored it while politicians have played it up.

And no, it probably won't be declared as unconstitutional because they haven't framed the violence portion as having anything to do with free speech. The pr0n section does, but it follows existing laws for the most part. The violence section cites public safety as it's concern and the bill's sponsor denies video games even having a stance under free speech.

And if gamers can't even care enough to follow the news on this before it's too late - who is going to care enough to try and challenge it? Supposedly the ESA will but as to date they've been pretty silent actually.

So right now, it's expected to get on the books and probably stay there.

This comment was edited on May 26, 18:23.
17.
 
Re: No subject
May 27, 2005, 02:23
Prez
 
17.
Re: No subject May 27, 2005, 02:23
May 27, 2005, 02:23
 Prez
 
I can see why you would be concerned. But really, this bill is not any different from a myriad of others in many other states that have been struck down by the courts. It might take a while but so what? In the meantime, little johnny can't play Doom3. Big deal. I'm not against keeping violent games out the hands of kids - just against government regulation of it.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
18.
 
Re: No subject
May 27, 2005, 08:40
18.
Re: No subject May 27, 2005, 08:40
May 27, 2005, 08:40
 
I think your faith in this "myriad of other laws" is somewhat unwarranted. Especially since this particular brand of law is pretty new, so assuming there's a precedent that they'll be struck down isn't really accurate. If you've got examples, fine. The best chance is that the ESA will force them to prove casuality. And it's not a great chance.

And this bill has many problems which could impact outside of "johnny can't play doom", as I list on my blog. For one thing, it lists violent games as harmful to minors and a potential cause of violence. This is precisely what guys like Jack Thompson need to start winning cases against Rockstar. The bill legislates casuality that science has yet to prove.

And then of course, there's this little thing called the Internet. If you were a small developer and trying to sell your game online, you're going to have to start thinking twice about it next week - because if you sell to some kid in Illinois you might get a lawsuit on your doorstep.

Mostly though, this bill shows that gamers need to be a bit more political. I know that sounds nasty and it might require a cold shower afterwards, but the Illinois Assembly walked all over anyone opposing this bill by threatening to flyer them to death saying they support violent behavior in kids. Who was there to raise an opposition? Nobody but crickets.

19.
 
Re: No subject
May 27, 2005, 11:07
Prez
 
19.
Re: No subject May 27, 2005, 11:07
May 27, 2005, 11:07
 Prez
 
I am very politically active - I just get tired of it. That's why I come here alot. I get tired of the senseless back and forth between 2 groups who are never going to change one another's minds but still debate to no end trying to do just that. (Hmmm...sounds a bit like the Bluesnews forum). I don't really feel like digging up examples - I came here to enjoy myself, not do research. But in the last 2 years I have read of 3 bills (one in California, one in Missouri, and one in Washington) that have all died due to their unconstitutional limitation of free speech. The ninth circuit court of appeals ruled two years ago that if that what's expressed in movies and books can be considered "speech", then videogames should fall under the same umbrella of protection of the First Amendment. Thus, any state law limiting the sale of videogames in any manner whatsoever is in direct violation of a FEDERAL court. 100 times out of 100, the state will lose. You might remember this appeals court ruling was in response to Judge Limbaugh (no relation to Rush) in his opinion that games "present no meaningful ideas, and thus do not warrant 1st Amendment protection...". Of course he was wrong and his ruling was overturned and thrown out. Jack Thompson has not had ONE case he has brought ever even reach a jury - the judges keep throwing them out of court.

I admire your passion about this - too many people go through life with blinders on. This IS a serious issue, no doubt. But the ESA (formerly the IDSA, still headed by Doug Lowenstein) has a significantly powerful presence in all of these important cases. Someone is fighting for us. Just relax - we have the Constitution of the US and court precedence on our side.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
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