In Jedi Outcast on the other hand, I was bothered with one of those lame Don't-Get-Detected-Or-Game-Over missions. Stealth gameplay done the wrong way.

Actually, I think that mission is the absolute FINEST stealth mission EVER MADE for any computer game, and I am not even joking. Why?

Because if you get detected, the imperials actually have to RUN TO THE ALARM BUTTON AND PRESS IT, before you get arrested. As far as I can remember, every other stealth mission in every other game, you just die when you get detected, or the alarm goes off automatically.

I thought that was actually very well implemented. If you set up three turrets next to that alarm button, plus a few mines, and run around swiping your lightsaber, you can wipe out all the guards without ever worrying about that alarm. Similarly for almost all the other areas throughout that level, with the one exception of that room you have to crawl through in darkness. BEST STEALTH EVAR. If you don't want to do stealth, then fuck it, and kill the guards.

Also, I fail to see why everyone considers the original Jedi Knight SO MUCH BETTER than Jedi Outcast? It was a great game, yes, especially for its time, but is it that much better?? It had, in no particular order :
1) Great levels, so did JO but JK wins. Point to JK.
2) Absolutely horrible FMV, which kinda made it fun, but still. Point to JO.
3) Good firefights. So did JO. Even.
4) HORRIBLE lightsaber combat in JK. I'm talking just plain fucking retarded. Lightsaber defense doesn't work. Two stormtroopers will kill you every time. Trying to kill enemies with the lightsaber is an excercise in randomness. Click the button and Kyle will initiate one of any three attacks, apparently based on whim. The hit detection system will then arbitrarily decide if you hit or not, even if you see your saber pretty much passing through the character.
While JO takes a lot of time to master, it's a fine sight better than JK. Point JO.
5) Idiotic force power progress through finding secrets. You get one point per level, but if you find all the secrets, you get more. Ehh ok. Point JO.
6) Ok, force power allocation was far better than in JO. I like being able to chose myself. Point JK.

Why is it so much better? Even the story is actually inferior, imo, to that of JO.

I'm also not sure I'd call Dark Forces revolutionary. More evolutionary. It was still based on a 2d grid, and the sneaking and leaning parts really confused the AI. It had great level design however, apart from the Nar Shaddaa level (small bridges and guys throwing grenades at you, urk..)


As for the movies, I say to each his own. I kinda like Ep1 (although Jar Jar absolutely RUINS the entire movie), and Ep2 features less Jar Jar, but a far more annoying Anakin and it's way too long, but it's still watchable.

I wouldn't call LA turning into an EA. They do not go around buying up others and forcing them to turn out crap. At least they only rape their own franchises.

And finally, I don't think LucasArts really looks at releasing Sam & Max 2 as "saving their good name".
They look at it as "will not make as money".
As much as we'd all want developers to not look at the bottom line, they still do. If they don't think a game will sell, it will not get released. Funny how everyone thought Blizzard was great for not releasing their Warcraft adventure, but when LucasArts decides to can a sequel to one of their oldies, all of a sudden they're the devil.

Creston

Why is good, complex, somewhat intelligent gaming going downhill more and more?

...maybe because console are becoming more and more successful. The last few LA games have been quite consolish, especially MI4

Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy are faint shadows of the greatness that Dark Forces and Jedi Knight have been. There have been improvements in control. But the overall level design, gameplay mechanics and lightsaber inflation is much worse. (Every turd and his dog are wielding the force and a lightsaber in those games. Environments don't make sense at all.)

It's an absolute shame that those games got higher scores than Dark Forces did in its time.
Dark Forces was revolutionary in enhancig simplistic Doom gameplay to immersive infiltrating gameplay with jumping, crouching, optional sneaking, looking up and down.
It was ahead of it's time. It took 5 years until the shooter Deus Ex came up with similar gameplay, which allowed you silent infiltration AND hard hitting at the same time.
And Dark Forces was FUN.

In Jedi Outcast on the other hand, I was bothered with one of those lame Don't-Get-Detected-Or-Game-Over missions. Stealth gameplay done the wrong way.

And I've played the Republic Commando PC demo. (It's on the cover disks of several German gaming magazines. I don't know why it's not officially up for download yet.)

And once again, the game seems to be stupified action crap, one of these lame bastards that can't decide if they want to be a console game or a PC game. There is no immersive special forces gameplay. Just running through small corridors and shooting baddies left, right, front and back.
Republic Commando is to Dark Forces what Invisible War is to Deus Ex.

Just look at the old Star Wars classics: X-Wing, Tie-Fighter, Dark Forces. And then compare to the games of today.
Why is good, complex, somewhat intelligent gaming going downhill more and more?

Hey, it could be worse. EA could buy LA.

No need for that Creston, LA is already becoming EA-like by themselves by scraping high-quality games with substance in favour of fast-food games which will make big bucks.

Sounds pretty much like EA already, don't you agree?

Of course it's everyone's right to have a business strategy like this however I can't understand why there is apparently no room for one or the other serious gaming title in between all those mass-market junk?

Sam & Max 2 could have been the perfect title to save LA's reputation even if the game does not make lots of money.

But now it's clear that LA is becoming the next EA.

Me too, full throttle, day of the tenticle etc.. all classics - Strangely I would have thought point n clicks would be perfect for the console market, there is huge rental industry so get sam n max 2 80-90 in the official xbox and ps2 magazines and your laughing.

The new trilogy could have blinded God with magnificence while handing out free blowjobs and people would have not liked it.

Lies.

I walked into the first midnight showing of Episode 1 expecting magnificence. What I got was mediocrity. I walked into Episode 2 with hope. What I got was complete trash.

Lucasarts has been doing well, I have no complaints with it. However, I would put quite a large sum of money on a bet that Lucas himself probably has little to no involvement with these games that have become succesful, other than cashing in on the profits.

Not even going to begin on my resentment of the "remakes" of the original trilogy.

The anger at Lucas is well-deserved.


And I loved the original Sam & Max.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 04:46.

Dear George,

Please take your Episode 3 games and shove them up your ass. You're a one talent hack, and everyone knows it. BTW, Pepsi called - they wanted to know what all you were whoring selling out for this movie.


Thank you,

nin

Much anger in him. Like his father.



Creston

Edit : and now LA is just producing one SW piece of garbage after the other.

Jedi Outcast. Jedi Academy. Knights of the Old Republic. Kotor2. All 85-95% games, adored by vast majorities of gamers. Cut them some slack.

For that matter, I fail to see why everyone's so hateful towards Lucas anyways. Yes, the new trilogy is not really my cup of tea either, and they have done an absolutely DREADFUL job of casting characters (although some praise is coming about the guy who does Anakin in Ep3), but come on. The new trilogy could have blinded God with magnificence while handing out free blowjobs and people would have not liked it. As I said quite awhile before it came out, it was IMPOSSIBLE to live up to the hype, and after the 20+ years of Star Wars worship, plus an overal excellent series of books in the EU, nothing would have been good enough.

On their own, I kinda like Ep1 & 2. Compared to the original trilogy, they fall far short. C'est la vie.

Now, as for Lucasarts abandoning all their IP in favor of more and more Star Wars games, I don't like that either. I'd love to see another Monkey Island, or another Sam & Max, or something. But unfortunately, their last few games in that genre didn't sell very well, so they'd be taking a huge gamble. Just because all us grumpy old men can still remember Sam & Max or DotT doesn't mean the majority of today's gamers do, since most of them are probably too young to remember or are mostly console kiddies. I think they are (justifiably) worried about sales in any of those franchises.

Hey, it could be worse. EA could buy LA.

This comment was edited on Jan 30, 03:28.

Misanthropes!

I would far prefer there be no Sam & Max follow up if the only option is for a third party to develop (let alone the German kings of comedy) a surely very pale shadow of the original!

Like I said already during the day Lucasarts canceled Sam & Max 2 for the first time, Lucasarts died with Sam & Max 2.

I can't believe that Lucasarts was my favorite gaming company ten years ago, I preferred them even to id software and now LA is just producing one SW piece of garbage after the other.

As Michael Moore would say now : "Shame on you George, SHAME ON YOU!"

I'm shocked and surprised by your rampant cynicism nin. I think we all know that George produces thoughtful and intellectual space opera where characterisation and soul comes first and foremost, and that his visions are born as venus was, pure and sacred, beyond any thoughts of fat checks brought about by merchandise, corporate sponsors and cheap cash in endorsements from his work.








...
..
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MWAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

What a complete whore he truly is.

Dear George,

Please take your Episode 3 games and shove them up your ass. You're a one talent hack, and everyone knows it. BTW, Pepsi called - they wanted to know what all you were whoring selling out for this movie.


Thank you,

nin





May 3rd, 2005 - "We are preparing to destroy you." http://www.nin.com

I see your point, Moonbender. I've just always appreciated that blue seems to be a stickler for style.

~Steve

My music: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/imjediluke/

Sam & Max Still Dead.

I dont really have a interest in this game. Dog? and another animal are detectives who go on wacky adventures? I think some peopel think its a classic. I could not imagine a game design that would appeal to me. I dont know the last time I played a game that was funny much less a good adventure game.

Armed and Dangerous I think damaged my brain. I still hear that god awful sound effect they used for the rifle when you shot it. Whack, Whack, Whack. OOh, makes me cringe and the humor, ooh, man that was a asault, a crime against humanity.

It might be regarded as the proper form, and I am aware of that. But it's really an artefact from the times of typewriters where inserting typos into quotes was a common mistake. These days, it really has no use since it's fairly clear at what point the typo is introduced. Personally, I don't think a gaming news site is the place to implement archaic formalities. But eh, it's not exactly a matter of life and death in any event.

Blue is right. Carry on.

~Steve

My music: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/imjediluke/

there really is no point in adding [sic] apart from being smug

I never pull a quote to highlight typos, but when they turn up in these quotes (and I am aware that it sort of seems like it's picking on a non-native-English speaker), the proper form is to identify them.

It's purely for accuracy... I have nothing to be smug about when it comes to typos... I make enough of them myself.

Blue, we know you're just copy/pasting that stuff and unlikely to introduce typos, so there really is no point in adding [sic] apart from being smug. Well, the guy's German, so cut him and his English some slack.
That said, the English on that news page really is quite astonishingly bad. Why not hire someone to translate their news articles? Heck, ask me and I'll do it for free. Full disclosure: I'm German.

On a more on-topic note: [Generic outraged comment!] [Violent threat!] [Cynical post scriptum!]

Buggeration.

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN!