In 6 short years Kissenger managed to kill over a million people with illegal carpet bombings in Laos, Cambodia and Thailand.

I see your point but that was a different situation. To my knowledge we haven't carpet bombed Iraq - we've used precision missiles in civilian areas (which we all know are anything but, but we aren't napalming entire suburbs). That said, whenever you drop daisy cutters you end up hurting people. While nobody knows what the toll is, and never will, my point was that the results of this survey are statistically unreliable. And therefore unreliable as evidence.

That got cut off before I finished DL'ing it. So we'll have to try again at some point.

Wierd. OK, I'll do it again tomorrow.

No one said you have to like what the other guy is doing, but you do need to respect it.

Words to live by.


______________________
As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a gangster.

That is likely to be a complete exaggeration,

I'd say the opposite given the U.S. track record with this sort of thing. In 6 short years Kissenger managed to kill over a million people with illegal carpet bombings in Laos, Cambodia and Thailand. Some estimates put the number upwards of 3 million. Anyplace America gets involved (i.e. conflicts - direct and/or by proxy) death and destruction follow, generally in pretty considerable numbers.

No, that's right, but the conservative islamists (OBL et al) are hellbent on destroying anyone that doesn't treat the Koran as the highest power. This includes any government - including muslim governments such as Egypt and Algeria - that don't take their power straight from God.

Well, I could really care less about their internal conflicts. If they lack the desire to have a democratic way of life and won't stop these theocrats, tough titty for them. They are a tiny minority, so it's not like the Arab states couldn't deal with them if they really wanted to.

Watch that thing I sent you and you'll see what I mean.

That got cut off before I finished DL'ing it. So we'll have to try again at some point.

But some elements (and I dont mean Bush here, I mean the neo-cons - there's a difference) want to wipe out any non-democratic governments.

Including at home? The hypocrisy here is just sad. Any country that can be bullied, is. Any that can't, isn't (e.g. trade with China - in spite of Taiwan - and Vietnam is fine, but not with Cuba).

That's equally sad, because it completely violates any notion that there can be more than one way to live in the world.

Indeed. For the "Land of the Free" it has an atrocious track record in respecting other people's right to self-determination. No one said you have to like what the other guy is doing, but you do need to respect it.


"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here."
- Woody Allen

Opie & Anthony had one lesbian insert the business end of a wiffle-ball bat into another today on their show......

Opie and Anthony! Haven't heard their names in a while - actually since they got run out of Boston... Awesome jocks.

This comment was edited on Oct 30, 09:43.

Economists are almost NEVER for tax cuts, since this does not spur the economy.

That's not true at all. They DO spur the economy, but not for long term - the economy reverts to it's natural level of output. All they are is a shot in the arm, which the US needed post 9/11. However, the equality of the tax cuts was the retarded bit.

I think Kerry's money will come from taxing foreign earnings. This is a gold mine. However, lower corporation tax will swallow most of that.

Edit: so as to avoid making yet more posts, I'll answer some more in this one:

100,000 civilians dead in just 18 months

That is likely to be a complete exaggeration, because (if you're reffering to the Lancet's recent research) the method used to obtain the results was not particularly reliable. Extrapolation based on a small, randomly selected sample size is not a good way of making concrete analysis. That being said, the "official" measures, from Iraq's interim govt (something around 3000) and Iraq Body Count (something around 10,000) sound suspiciously low.

Contrary to what paranoid people believe about Muslims... they are not hellbent on destroying the west

No, that's right, but the conservative islamists (OBL et al) are hellbent on destroying anyone that doesn't treat the Koran as the highest power. This includes any government - including muslim governments such as Egypt and Algeria - that don't take their power straight from God. Any non-islamic theocracy. Watch that thing I sent you and you'll see what I mean.
The sad thing is, we are exactly the same. The West doesn't want to wipe out muslims. But some elements (and I dont mean Bush here, I mean the neo-cons - there's a difference) want to wipe out any non-democratic governments. That's equally sad, because it completely violates any notion that there can be more than one way to live in the world.

Did anyone ever notice that Eminem is an anagram for
Min E Me?

Dude, are you sure they didn't get to you too?:)

Oh, and further edit: I find it quite funny that in some counties there are more registered voters than there are over-18s. Some foul play - who'd have thought.
Before anyone says, they're in both democratic and republican counties.
______________________
As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a gangster.

This comment was edited on Oct 30, 06:21.

Wow! I never thought I'd see the day when a magazine as conservative as that would back a Democrat for prez.

The Economist is only fiscally conservative because in economic terms it does "make sense." However, it is socially moderate, calling for gay marriage, stem cell research etc to be legalised. It also has strong opinions on "the right way" to sort out things like Israel/Palestine, etc. But they are usually backed up by political realities: economics state do A, politics will require the following concessions etc.

As a balanced (and that is not to say unbiased), intelligent read, the Economist is hard to beat.

______________________
As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a gangster.

No, everything OBL said is true. That's their perspective. Contrary to what paranoid people believe about Muslims (remember, these are the same people who saw communism as some vast international conspiracy as well, and generally just tend to see enemies everywhere), they are not hellbent on destroying the west. They basically want 2 things: the end of unconditional support for Israel; that western powers get out of the Middle-East - Saudi Arabia in particular. Anything else you hear is just so much propaganda.

And like you said, given what the guy has done, who'd really trust him?

Conversely, if you look at the West's history in the Middle-East even just over the last century alone (not to mention the Crusades) most people there say the same thing. The fact is, we've done far worse by them, then they have by us. That's not a rationalization of their actions, just an explanation. Iraq today is just another example in a long sad history of examples. 100,000 civilians dead in just 18 months. Over the past century that number is in the millions (that is for all the major imperialist powers, America, England, France, Germany, etc.) It's not like they lack enough reasons to hate us and want to drive us out of the Middle-East.

What OBL is saying is that the American people need to wake up and get involved. They need to actively start understanding the why's and how's of American foreign policy and the results of those policies. Simply voting once every few years and then just ignoring what the elected officials do for however long they're in office isn't acceptable. The sad thing is he's right. Sadder still is the fact that if most people had any real idea of how their government was behaving around the globe over the past century most of them would be shocked and appalled.


"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here."
- Woody Allen

Just an update on my PC from yesterday -- got the new MB (the local place did get the right one), installed it this evening, and everything is running fine now.

Damn glad it was that and not the CPU or memory. Again, thanks for the various suggestions.

I've beaten him into it. It's his fault for marrying an English major.

It's Michael Powell--not Colin Powell.

No, actually the article is about Michael's Dad defending him against Stern's charges of nepotism.

The radio clip is, of course, with Michael.

Jeff

Definitely trying to influence the election

No, just a reminder that it doesn't matter who is in office, Al-Qaeda will always be around and always planning the next big attack. Same shit, different tape. It's getting old. Though, like nin, I did catch a hint of sense in the transcript, almost like OBL has realized Al-Qaeda is just a shell of what it was, and his thought process has kicked into survival mode.
This comment was edited on Oct 29, 21:20.

but I wonder if he's feeling the heat and doing this to try to remove some of the pressure directed his way

That was the exact impression I got. He's gone from "America must die" to "We won't attack you if you won't attack us". If felt like a total face-saving message...

And like you said, given what the guy has done, who'd really trust him?


http://www.placeboworld.co.uk

I read about it a few minutes ago, but that's about it. Sounds like he clained responsibility for 9/11, said that it is because of our support of Israel that he ordered the attacks, and was somewhat open about us avoiding other attacks, except for something about there still being other reasons to attack us again.

Like I'd believe anything of what he says about not attacking us again to begin with, but I wonder if he's feeling the heat and doing this to try to remove some of the pressure directed his way? Definitely trying to influence the election, IMHO, but it doesn't seem like he made any overt statements about wanting Kerry over Bush or anything to that effect, so a little difficult to tell from what little I've read about it.

I've been outside unloading paving tiles for my back yard. Gotta take a break before the wife gets home.


*************
* Warhawk *
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Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

This comment was edited on Oct 29, 20:46.

Have I lied to you? I mean, in this room? Trust me, leave that thing alone. - GLaDOS

Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away? - Ripley