Counter-Strike: Source Update

Steam News (thanks Frans) has word on the couple of minor changes to Counter-Strike: Source offered in the new Steam update.
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37.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 20:53
37.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 20:53
Oct 27, 2004, 20:53
 
Bwahaha. I have to attack, because I hate such people. But youre right. I already stopped arguing with you anyway.

________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
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36.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 20:43
36.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 20:43
Oct 27, 2004, 20:43
 
If you do ever think you are dealing with someone like that in the future, I would recommend *not* attacking them. It only makes thinks worse.

35.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 20:32
35.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 20:32
Oct 27, 2004, 20:32
 
They were pretty arrogant and provocative IMO. The posts I normaly expect from people who will kill for their opinion.

Thats the only reason why I got that harsh.


________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
This comment was edited on Oct 27, 20:35.
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Avatar 12928
34.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 20:00
34.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 20:00
Oct 27, 2004, 20:00
 
...without resorting to insults.
All I tried was to show you other peoples side of view, possibilities and things that may happen.
From your other posts:
I cant think of anything else but ignorance and fanboyism if I read such factless simpleminded comments.
Thats what I call ignorance.
Theres the ignorance again. you dont even notice it anymore, do you? Oh wtf I give up
You fanboys make me real sick. But thats your ultimative goal anyway, right? Replace intelligence with stupidity, so you can finally develop an even bigger ego?
Oh and as such a loyal Steam fanboy you should actually know...
but I am pretty sure youre too smart to bother how something like "adding up" works
Btw, your ignorance really stinks.
Sorry, but it wont get into my head how people can be so ignorant?!

Hrm, I had a pretty sarcastic paragraph in post 21... But I don't think I was quite that acidic.

Your replies led me to believe you were one of those with a knee-jerk hatred of Steam (probably the part where you called me an ignorant fanboy for defending it). If you really don't have this opinion, then I have no problem.

I don't love Steam or Valve. Contrary to what some of you might be thinking, I haven't even preordered/bought it (I always wait for 1 week of reviews minimum). I just try to dispell some of the automatic assumptions many people seem to make.

33.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 19:37
33.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 19:37
Oct 27, 2004, 19:37
 
Read my below post on the purposes of Steam. Also consider that though you may choose not to benefit from autopatching, many will. Note my comments on the benefits of autopatching in the same post.

I may have misunderstood something, I am sorry. At least I can use my nationality as an excuse.
Still, I dont mind that my games are autopatched. Its just that I can think that some people are bothered by it.
Im also not trusting Valve like you do. Maybe you will learn it some day the hard way. Guess not if youre just a casual player.

Ho ho ho, as I mentioned in my reply to VoodooV's (more curtious) post, my connect sucks (T1 shared by 100 filesharing college students = slow as ass). Note I said 10-15 *extra* seconds (booting up Steam). In my experience booting up the game takes comparable time to a regular game once Steam is started. Thus, 10-15 *extra* seconds.

Again a misunderstanding.

Every browser handles it differently, but, again, I can't say I've had much delay, even with filtered queries. As for ping inaccuracy, I see this in a lot of games and actually felt that Steam's reporting was above average. As for server mods, there is a limit to the amount of info a HL1 server returns about its state and it does not include these mods. This is a function of HL1, not Steam. Yes it is nice to filter out those 20Xspeed instagib servers in UT2004, but UT2004 servers were designed from the beginning with this capacity. Hopefully it will be a feature in HL2, but we can't really say.

Above average is funny. I mostly get servers with a ping of 400-700, which have a ping of 60 to 80 when I enter them. And yes, I have my network(settings) set up correctly...
Okay, why in hell did ASE read out all the mods then? Even ATAC, PTB and no-AWP scripts.

Personally, I like it...

Do you really want me to comment on that?

Same to you, sir. You don't think anyone likes Steam better than the old way? Judging by the posts in this thread, it seems like you are in the minority. I have been trying to present a fair image of Steam and demonstrate it is, overall, a boon to HL players. I understand that you don't like it, but not everone "needs/likes/wants/has" the things you do.
...without resorting to insults.

All I tried was to show you other peoples side of view, possibilities and things that may happen. I never said you have to hate it or whatever. Actually I am quite comfortable with Steam right now myself, but I read and hear all the time from people who dislike it. And when I read/hear their concerns they mostly sound very valid. My friend just uninstalled it again after being driven mad by its "improvements" and "easy and fast" interface.
Read through your first posts. Maybe you will notice how immature, provocative and childish you wrote them. I find it pretty funny that the newer your posts get the more mature they get. and I may know why that is the case.

________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Avatar 12928
32.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 18:59
32.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 18:59
Oct 27, 2004, 18:59
 
Holy crapola this is expanding exponentially...!

VoodooV's post
Completely unnecessary, other programs do it with less intrusion. And so what? its an interface for crying out loud. big whoop. And again, how does it benefit the person only interested in the SP game
How does Steam intrude? And SP players need a frontend just as much as MP players. "its an interface for crying out loud. big whoop." is exactly what I have been saying.
by your own admission, completely unnecessary, the only people would even remotely need this are the computer illiterates, who are more likely to be burned because of all the hoops Steam makes you jump through or don't realize the net connection is required.
Hrm last I checked Steam is very easy to use. Start it up. Select your game. Play. Steam takes care of the rest. You also need to consider all the advantages to an autopatcher I listed. (Ill add one more- many smaller patches result in versions like "1.253.3b rc56"... leaving you searching for the "1.253.3b rc52->1.253.3b rc56 patch", automation helps here).
And again, there will inevitably be that day when they release a patch that breaks the game, changes gameplay that most find unacceptable or otherwise pisses off the fanbase. If your answer is, "then turn off the autopatcher" Then my response is, why the hell am I forced to use steam when one of the features is something I immediately turn off?
So you use every feature of every peice of software you install? Turning off and on features is pretty standard play for powerusers.
Also, I'll just reiterate that I think it is not I who has unfounded faith in Valve, but others who have an unfounded lack of faith. If they manage to release a showstopping patch, Steam makes it trivial to roll back or fix quickly. Previously would be difficult for a number of reasons (need to make a new patcher/unpatcher, need to ensure that those that don't have the patch or unpatched aren't told to repatch/juggling 2 version numbers online, the newer being invalid etc).
again, completely unnecessary, only a real benefit for those with broadband, alienates everyone else. I'll agree that digital content delivery HAS a future, but its a far cry from BEING the future
Hrm, I dunno. With resumable downloads, leaving the computer on overnight a few days does not seem unreasonable. My connect here is actually pretty crappy (T1 shared with about 100 college students = frequently slower than dialup) but I got all of HL2 in a reasonable amount of time. As for alienating anyone... how does the option hurt anyone?
Ineffective, it will all get cracked eventually, all these anti-cheating initiatives do is encourage people to break them. like piracy, there will always be someone smarter than the person who wrote the code, thats just life. I'm not saying don't try and stop it, but the annoyance that is Steam just isn't worth those dubious benefits.
From my observations, VAC zaps a *lot* of cheaters, but with only anecdotal evidence either way, I don't think we can really decide this one way or the other (same with piracy).
As for the basic version of HL2 being cheaper, I'll give you that one. Call me cynical, but i'm willing to bet that that will be the exception, not the rule. Corps have always priced products not at what they're actually worth, but at what they know the market will bear, so any discount will be temporary at best.
As you say, there is no real evidence either way (except HL2 being cheaper) so we cannot say whether this will pan out.

End VoodooV's post
Beaver's post
I guess acting civil is a bit too much to ask?
Might want to read a little bit further. So whats the point of steam then if you dont have autoupdating enabled?
Read my below post on the purposes of Steam. Also consider that though you may choose not to benefit from autopatching, many will. Note my comments on the benefits of autopatching in the same post.
And that brings me to saying that you should simply think about all the people who dont have 3mbit, who dont have 1GB of RAM. Why do you people always only think "whats good for me will be good all others"?
Hrm, so says the person who sees no benefit to including autopatching? The HL2 system requirements reflect the fact that Steam will be running, and they are low. It is practically a non-issue.
Uh... I think I wait 5-10 seconds alone until Steam logged me in and is loaded. Of course your 3mbit cable modem takes only 2ms.
Ho ho ho, as I mentioned in my reply to VoodooV's (more curtious) post, my connect sucks (T1 shared by 100 filesharing college students = slow as ass). Note I said 10-15 *extra* seconds (booting up Steam). In my experience booting up the game takes comparable time to a regular game once Steam is started. Thus, 10-15 *extra* seconds.
The first ones come quite quickly, true. But what if youre looking for a server with cs_italy? It takes quite long until all servers are refreshed AND most of the pings arent accurate at all. Also there is no way to quickly see what mods these server are running and often I find myself on some WC3 or superheroes mod server.
Every browser handles it differently, but, again, I can't say I've had much delay, even with filtered queries. As for ping inaccuracy, I see this in a lot of games and actually felt that Steam's reporting was above average. As for server mods, there is a limit to the amount of info a HL1 server returns about its state and it does not include these mods. This is a function of HL1, not Steam. Yes it is nice to filter out those 20Xspeed instagib servers in UT2004, but UT2004 servers were designed from the beginning with this capacity. Hopefully it will be a feature in HL2, but we can't really say.
I know, but VAC was active over WON already and it didnt take nearly as long even if you added the loading time of the game itself. I am pretty sure it isnt really neccesary to download it over and over again if you simply switch the server (and I even think it reloads when the map is changing). Its pretty ironic that there are far more cheaters on the servers now. Thats shows how well VAC works actually.
VAC in Steam is different from VAC over WON. It is more integrated and complex and thus requires security modules. Yes, you need a new one when you change servers. No you do not re-download one between maps. As for the number of cheaters, as I noted earlier, there is no concrete evidence that VAC is doing/not doing its job. Personally, I see a reduction in the amount of cheating, but again, no concrete evidence. If you don't like VAC, it is entirely optional.
You call 56k or ISDN users who cant afford/get anything better, reluctant to change?
Please read my comment on online content delivery above.
People who simply get their favorite game taken away and replaced with an "improved" version with a much worse user interface than any other similar utility?
Hrm... what is worse again? Personally, I like it...
I say it again, not everyone needs/likes/wants/has the things you do. Thats what I call ignorance.
Same to you, sir. You don't think anyone likes Steam better than the old way? Judging by the posts in this thread, it seems like you are in the minority. I have been trying to present a fair image of Steam and demonstrate it is, overall, a boon to HL players. I understand that you don't like it, but not everone "needs/likes/wants/has" the things you do.
Theres the ignorance again. you dont even notice it anymore, do you? Oh wtf I give up
I can't refute what you don't argue.
PS- before making future posts, please read VoodooV's last post for a reference for making your point strongly, without resorting to insults.
End Beaver's Post

31.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 18:35
31.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 18:35
Oct 27, 2004, 18:35
 
I wouldnt want to wait 1 to 3 days after each patch and then search the support forums for possible hints if this patch works or not. Whats the point in that? I want to play a game of CS or whatever if I feel like it. I never said I would turn off the auto update because of that. Theres not much you can do against bad patches with a system like Steam. If its bad, its bad and youre dependant on Valve to fix it ASAP (which is very unlikely with such problems I mentioned). No matter if you patched your version or not. And it doesnt even have to be the game itself, if one of both fails, youre fucked. 1 + 1 are 2 possible things that may fail. Actually its 3 incl. the network. Steams network fails quite frequently as it is anyway. I dont want to know what it will be like on HL2 release day. On the other hand I never saw the WON network fail one time in all the 6 years I played HL1 and its mods. I only heard from it once but it only was a few minutes down.
You may be under the impression that this can happen with any normal patch. The difference is, normal patches are checked much more thoroughly and take also longer because of that (as I mentioned before). Steam patches are like MMORPG patches, they mostly need another patch soon after, which is a proof for bad QA. But they are not dumb, they know there are enough people who dont bother them using Steam as a free QA platform. I would probably do the same to save money if I had the same zombies and lemmings as customers.
If all online games are to turn into something like that its gonna be a horror, as everyone knows well who played MMORPGs over a longer period.

Oh and btw, most MMORPG developers learned that they can make a lot of huge mistakes since people depend on them anyway. Valve did a similar thing with the switch from WON to Steam. Only a few moaned about it and the others will come back with HL2. If someone noticed he can steal your candies with no problem he will do it over and over again. Its simple as that.
And people still trust Valve, even though they cant even keep their firms network secure nor can they utilize their own Steam properly (hl2 script loaded onto clients, etc).

________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
This comment was edited on Oct 27, 18:45.
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Avatar 12928
30.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 18:11
nin
 
30.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 18:11
Oct 27, 2004, 18:11
 nin
 
What about if they fuck up a patch and the game crashes everytime you start it, or makes the game unplayable slow on some systems, some rare mice wont work anymore, matrox cards will not work properly anymore etc etc

It won't matter, since you'll have updating turned off anyway, right?



http://www.placeboworld.co.uk
29.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 17:31
29.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 17:31
Oct 27, 2004, 17:31
 
What about if they fuck up a patch and the game crashes everytime you start it, or makes the game unplayable slow on some systems, some rare mice wont work anymore, matrox cards will not work properly anymore etc etc. There have been enough such accidents in the past and even when Steam was out it took them days to fix it, instead of just putting the old version back in until they fixed it. Steam users serve as beta testers as you can very well see on CS:S. Some still arent fixed I believe i.e. D3D transparent water.
If you have disabled autopatching you can still play in LAN games with your old version, but you want to play online and I doubt you can connect to servers with your old version.
Can there be servers with an old version and people would be able to connect to them without the new official patch?

________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Avatar 12928
28.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 17:15
nin
 
28.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 17:15
Oct 27, 2004, 17:15
 nin
 
Might want to read a little bit further. So whats the point of steam then if you dont have autoupdating enabled? You wont be able to play online anyway if you dont update (isnt that one of the main purposes of Steam?).

You wouldn't be able to play online anyway if everyone else had a newer version than you did...that's nothing new. Just like any other game, you'd have to get the latest patch to play on servers that are patched.

If you have the current version, and disable updates, you can still play online...

I don't get what the big deal is...

http://www.placeboworld.co.uk
27.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 16:55
27.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 16:55
Oct 27, 2004, 16:55
 
Yeah, yeah. Everyone on this board loves to call people who disagree with them fanboys... Consider that you are putting just as much effort into attacking Steam as I am into defending it. I am not defending it because I love Valve or have any particular loyalty to them, I just dislike knee-jerk reactions to these kind of issues. In other words, I feel I am writing to dispell ignorance, which is probably exactly how you feel.

Sorry but I cant think of anything else but ignorance and fanboyism if I read such factless simpleminded comments.

It's pretty easy. If you disable it once, it stays disabled. If you don't want autopatching, just turn it off. Not a big deal.

Might want to read a little bit further. So whats the point of steam then if you dont have autoupdating enabled? You wont be able to play online anyway if you dont update (isnt that one of the main purposes of Steam?).

They work with Steam

And very efficient too.

Hrm, well, newer games require more resources. The fact that this interface requires more up front doesn't suprise me. I'd hardly call that memory hoging either (especially with HL2's low sys requirements).

And that brings me to saying that you should simply think about all the people who dont have 3mbit, who dont have 1GB of RAM. Why do you people always only think "whats good for me will be good all others"?

...so and extra say, 5-10 seconds of waiting over a contemporary game?

Uh... I think I wait 5-10 seconds alone until Steam logged me in and is loaded. Of course your 3mbit cable modem takes only 2ms.

??? Hrm, that has not been my experience. I have never had to wait more than 2 seconds to have more servers than I could read as quickly as they appeared.

The first ones come quite quickly, true. But what if youre looking for a server with cs_italy? It takes quite long until all servers are refreshed AND most of the pings arent accurate at all. Also there is no way to quickly see what mods these server are running and often I find myself on some WC3 or superheroes mod server.

That is Valve anti-cheat, and an entirely different matter. If you don't like it, filter the servers that use it out. I'd rather pay for the somewhat increased security.

I know, but VAC was active over WON already and it didnt take nearly as long even if you added the loading time of the game itself. I am pretty sure it isnt really neccesary to download it over and over again if you simply switch the server (and I even think it reloads when the map is changing). Its pretty ironic that there are far more cheaters on the servers now. Thats shows how well VAC works actually.

There will always be those reluctant to change, so some stayed with WON and some graduated up to Steam. Are you blaming Valve for letting WON persist and thus dividing the community? Its a moot point now. WON is gone and everyone who wants to play is on Steam.

You call 56k or ISDN users who cant afford/get anything better, reluctant to change? People who simply get their favorite game taken away and replaced with an "improved" version with a much worse user interface than any other similar utility? I say it again, not everyone needs/likes/wants/has the things you do. Thats what I call ignorance.

It was easier/possible to share keys.
On the difficulty of going offline:
Seriously... it is *not* hard. Steam is ready to go offline the second you log on. Back up one file to make the authentication last longer... I don't understand the issue here.
On patches:
You claim I put undeserved trust in Valve... Well, I don't trust them any more than any other game company. I would say you harbor underserved mistrust for Valve. The fact of the matter is, with Steam patches can be rolled out, or rolled back significantly faster than they could traditionally. "Broken" patches have been so rare in my experience, and rollback patches have been so consistant, that I really don't understand the big deal you are making out of this.

Theres the ignorance again. you dont even notice it anymore, do you? Oh wtf I give up

________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Avatar 12928
26.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 16:54
26.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 16:54
Oct 27, 2004, 16:54
 
1) Interface - a global framework that allows features such as buddy tracking patching and anticheat to work across multiple games and mods.
Completely unnecessary, other programs do it with less intrusion. And so what? its an interface for crying out loud. big whoop. And again, how does it benefit the person only interested in the SP game
2) Autopatcher - though more hardcore gamers such as those who read BluesNews have no problem finding and downloading patches, to the average gamer they are a souce of confusion and inconvenience. It also allows patches to be deployed more quickly (no need to make custom installers for all the possible setups), with greater organization (no more v1.0->1.1, 1.1->1.5, etc) and with greater frequency (a hotfix can be rolled out alone instead of waiting for the next "big" patch).
by your own admission, completely unnecessary, the only people would even remotely need this are the computer illiterates, who are more likely to be burned because of all the hoops Steam makes you jump through or don't realize the net connection is required. And again, there will inevitably be that day when they release a patch that breaks the game, changes gameplay that most find unacceptable or otherwise pisses off the fanbase. If your answer is, "then turn off the autopatcher" Then my response is, why the hell am I forced to use steam when one of the features is something I immediately turn off?
[3) Online content delivery - Cheaper (yes), faster (yes, though moreso for games Vivendi doesn't have rights to), convenient, portable (all I need is my Steam id and pass to play anywhere online- whatever games I want will download).
again, completely unnecessary, only a real benefit for those with broadband, alienates everyone else. I'll agree that digital content delivery HAS a future, but its a far cry from BEING the future,
4) Integrated anticheat - If you choose to, you can log on to VAC protected servers. Though it doesn't ban immediately, (it waits about a month) it is good about weeding out most cheaters and sacring[sic] the rest off.
Ineffective, it will all get cracked eventually, all these anti-cheating initiatives do is encourage people to break them. like piracy, there will always be someone smarter than the person who wrote the code, thats just life. I'm not saying don't try and stop it, but the annoyance that is Steam just isn't worth those dubious benefits. Again, useless to the person interested in only the SP game.

As for the basic version of HL2 being cheaper, I'll give you that one. Call me cynical, but i'm willing to bet that that will be the exception, not the rule. Corps have always priced products not at what they're actually worth, but at what they know the market will bear, so any discount will be temporary at best.

This comment was edited on Oct 27, 17:07.
25.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 16:23
25.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 16:23
Oct 27, 2004, 16:23
 
1. believe it is against principle to be forced to activate a single player game online
Interesting principal. I won't say anything else, because if you really hold that idea dear to your heart I won't try to dissuade you from it, but be prepared for more and more products to require authentication. I think it is probably the future for a lot of software... is it really so inconvenient?
2. live outside the US where internet connections are not as readily available.
Those that have no connection to the internet but still want HL2 (for single player) will be inconvenienced... They will have to activate their product once online (for SP, only one activation is required). This could be a pretty big hassel, but I really don't see it effecting many people. Besides, if you note the system requirements for HL2, one of them is "internet connection"...
3. just simply don't want it. (yes, very valid reason)
As I said before, it is an interface. It does a few more things than other, more traditional interfaces, but its basic funtion is providing a main menu interface. As I said, I didn't like the HL1 interface, but I was never given a chance to buy a version of HL without it. The same goes for practically any game. If the interface bothers you to the point where you don't want the game... I guess you shouldn't buy it.

Will Steam prevent/deter piracy. I really don't think any of us know the answer to that question.

So they can cut out the middle man? how does that help ME, the consumer, say they do cut out vivendi, say 100% of all money spent goes completely to valve. That means we're going to see cheaper games right? WRONG
The basic Steam version is cheaper and provides the same content, less box and cds. The next highest Steam version is cheaper than the "collecters edition" and provides more game content.

But that's not the point of Steam...

The purpose of Steam:
1) Interface - a global framework that allows features such as buddy tracking patching and anticheat to work across multiple games and mods.
2) Autopatcher - though more hardcore gamers such as those who read BluesNews have no problem finding and downloading patches, to the average gamer they are a souce of confusion and inconvenience. It also allows patches to be deployed more quickly (no need to make custom installers for all the possible setups), with greater organization (no more v1.0->1.1, 1.1->1.5, etc) and with greater frequency (a hotfix can be rolled out alone instead of waiting for the next "big" patch).
3) Online content delivery - Cheaper (yes), faster (yes, though moreso for games Vivendi doesn't have rights to), convenient, portable (all I need is my Steam id and pass to play anywhere online- whatever games I want will download).
4) Integrated anticheat - If you choose to, you can log on to VAC protected servers. Though it doesn't ban immediately, (it waits about a month) it is good about weeding out most cheaters and sacring the rest off.

24.
 
No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 14:37
24.
No subject Oct 27, 2004, 14:37
Oct 27, 2004, 14:37
 
The point is that they are unnecessarily alienating people who:

1. believe it is against principle to be forced to activate a single player game online

2. live outside the US where internet connections are not as readily available.

3. just simply don't want it. (yes, very valid reason)

for what? so they can fight piracy? how? Historically speaking, draconian methods of fighting piracy, like steam have ALWAYS ENCOURAGED piracy, not prevented it. Even on the steam boards, talk is rampant of how it will be easier to just wait for someone to crack steam and play it offline, and you know what...they're right.

So they can cut out the middle man? how does that help ME, the consumer, say they do cut out vivendi, say 100% of all money spent goes completely to valve. That means we're going to see cheaper games right? WRONG, they're going to pocket that difference you know they will..if you believe something else, you're just niave. Its either going to go towards buying everyone on the staff ferraris or at BEST its going to go into development of the next game, but even in THAT case, all it does is justify the same inflated price tage of games.

So in the end, we have Valve with all the money, still charging high prices for games, Vivendi is out of business, putting more unemployed people to drain the economy.

Gee, can't wait!

23.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 11:54
23.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 11:54
Oct 27, 2004, 11:54
 
Sigh... I get up in the morning to see this.... Ill deal with this one point at a time.
You fanboys make me real sick.
Yeah, yeah. Everyone on this board loves to call people who disagree with them fanboys... Consider that you are putting just as much effort into attacking Steam as I am into defending it. I am not defending it because I love Valve or have any particular loyalty to them, I just dislike knee-jerk reactions to these kind of issues. In other words, I feel I am writing to dispell ignorance, which is probably exactly how you feel.
Anyway, try to disable the auto update that quickly before the update is done. Good luck.
It's pretty easy. If you disable it once, it stays disabled. If you don't want autopatching, just turn it off. Not a big deal.
I also suggest you read some threads in the steam forums how Steam first split and then destroyed or heavily damaged other mods communities.
There will always be those reluctant to change, so some stayed with WON and some graduated up to Steam. Are you blaming Valve for letting WON persist and thus dividing the community? Its a moot point now. WON is gone and everyone who wants to play is on Steam.
I dont recall any pirated version worked with WON either unless you had a working key.
It was easier/possible to share keys.
On the difficulty of going offline:
Seriously... it is *not* hard. Steam is ready to go offline the second you log on. Back up one file to make the authentication last longer... I don't understand the issue here.
On patches:
You claim I put undeserved trust in Valve... Well, I don't trust them any more than any other game company. I would say you harbor underserved mistrust for Valve. The fact of the matter is, with Steam patches can be rolled out, or rolled back significantly faster than they could traditionally. "Broken" patches have been so rare in my experience, and rollback patches have been so consistant, that I really don't understand the big deal you are making out of this.
Thats what FREE gamebrowsers are for.
They work with Steam.
What so different about it? If I start Steam it uses 20 MB of RAM, if I play for a few it goes to 30MB. And I only have HL1 and CS installed.
Hrm, well, newer games require more resources. The fact that this interface requires more up front doesn't suprise me. I'd hardly call that memory hoging either (especially with HL2's low sys requirements).
If I start Steam I have to wait for it to log on, I have to wait for the game to start,
...so and extra say, 5-10 seconds of waiting over a contemporary game?
then I have to choose the server from the slow updating steam server browser
??? Hrm, that has not been my experience. I have never had to wait more than 2 seconds to have more servers than I could read as quickly as they appeared.
then I have to wait 20-40 secs until the game and security module is loaded and I am ready to play.
That is Valve anti-cheat, and an entirely different matter. If you don't like it, filter the servers that use it out. I'd rather pay for the somewhat increased security.

As a last point, I'd like to say something about childish name calling, but I poked a little too much fun at VoodooV last post to legitimatize anything.

22.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 05:56
22.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 05:56
Oct 27, 2004, 05:56
 
Not true.

1. Open up the Play Games Window.
2. Right Click on Half-Life 2.
3. Select Properties.
4. Go to dropdown box labeled "Automatic Updates"
5. Select "Do Not Automatically Update This Game"
6. Click Close.

You can now patch when you want to and not when steam wants you to. Of course you can't play multiplayer unless you update but that has always been the case anyway.

You fanboys make me real sick. But thats your ultimative goal anyway, right? Replace intelligence with stupidity, so you can finally develop an even bigger ego?

Anyway, try to disable the auto update that quickly before the update is done. Good luck.
I know you can disable your internet connection first, but thats just another complicated way Steam forces you to go.

And I guess thats why people still played CS 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 etc over WON... because "that has always been the case anyway".

I also suggest you read some threads in the steam forums how Steam first split and then destroyed or heavily damaged other mods communities. Even the bigger ones like TFC.

Oh noes Steam encourages you to be an outlaw! I grieve for those poor impressionable souls led astray by evil Steam instructions.

Seriously... people need to come up with better reasons to dislike Steam (other than, "my pirated copy doesn't work any more boo hoo").

I dont recall any pirated version worked with WON either unless you had a working key. If youre lucky with your keygen, then you probably will also be able to play over Steam. Oh and as such a loyal Steam fanboy you should actually know that CS:S is playable with pirated versions no problem.

RIDICULOUS! Everyone needs the same version to play together, so they encourage you to update! ZOMG! It's so convoluted, my brain feels like its going to explode! Especially considering it all happens automatically... as soon as you log on to Steam you are good to play offline (unless you want to log in and out of Steam multiple times, in which case you must backup one file...). I can understand how it might be too complicated for you, VoodooV.

Clearly if you are offline there is no way Steam will know if you have the newest version, thus, so long as everyone has the same version, LAN play will work. It just makes sense to have the newest version... but if you don't want to...

Of course they do, because its Steam and its forcing you to get the newest version, broken or not. All these extra things you need to do (backup, disconnect first to not get any updates, start Steam, close Steam, wait 30 secs to get onto a server, etc etc) add up, but I am pretty sure youre too smart to bother how something like "adding up" works.
See my first comment above for the rest of your pathetic try.
Btw, your ignorance really stinks.

No patch is ever forced upon you with steam aside from the updates to the steam software itself. Each and every game you have running through steam can be set up at the time of installation or altered at any moment in time to NOT autoupdate. You want the freedom to decide when to patch? Feel free to use it, it's right there and even in nice user-friendly menus if you bother to take five or ten seconds to look. (hint: It's in the properties for whatever game you're looking to change the settings for)

It isnt? YOU CANT FUCKING PLAY ONLINE WITHOUT THE NEWEST PATCH! MY GOD!!!
And wtf is the point of your loved auto updating if you have all your games set to manual anyway???

If Steam ever issues a "bad" patch it can be rolled back for everyone instantaneously.... via Steam.

You trust Valve to react that quickly? Even though you know very well what kind of shit they did in the past and how long it took them to fix it? Are you a newbie? That would explain a lot. But I guess its just that f word... no, I mean fanboy.

Steam is the interface for HL2 (and, incidentally, some other games). If you don't like the interface enough not to buy the game, then ummm... don't buy it I guess.

Ok I wont buy HL1. No... wait...

I personally thought the interface for HL1 was pretty craptacular (glad it got replaced) but that didn't stop me from buying it.

I never used it except in the very beginning. Thats what FREE gamebrowsers are for.

I guess I just don't understand one thing... what is so different about Steam? Just disable autoupdates and don't use the handful of other features it provides... it's just an interface.

What so different about it? If I start Steam it uses 20 MB of RAM, if I play for a few it goes to 30MB. And I only have HL1 and CS installed.

If I start the game browser of my choice I have 5 MB used and can also find game servers of all my other multiplayer games with it. and also have a buddy tracker which works across other developers games aswell.

If I start Steam I have to wait for it to log on, I have to wait for the game to start, then I have to choose the server from the slow updating steam server browser, then I have to wait 20-40 secs until the game and security module is loaded and I am ready to play.

One last question: Do you guys think you will get a job at Valve when you defend them that hard? Sorry, but it wont get into my head how people can be so ignorant?!


________
I'm not... gonna... cry... you... dumb... doo-doo brain!
This comment was edited on Oct 27, 05:59.
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Avatar 12928
21.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 27, 2004, 02:59
21.
Re: No subject Oct 27, 2004, 02:59
Oct 27, 2004, 02:59
 
The first step here is to perform the latest update and capture it. This is very important to make sure you get the latest content and bug fixes. Everyone that will be participating at the LAN event must have the latest update!

Easiest way
Bring the computer that will be playing offline to an available internet connection at a friend's house, school or perhaps business. Log into the account and do all the updates, make sure it all works.

RIDICULOUS! The convoluted nature of these steps inspires NO confidence in me that they want you to go offline, ever. I also find it amusing to note that the instructions require you to be at the latest patch level before you go offline

RIDICULOUS! Everyone needs the same version to play together, so they encourage you to update! ZOMG! It's so convoluted, my brain feels like its going to explode! Especially considering it all happens automatically... as soon as you log on to Steam you are good to play offline (unless you want to log in and out of Steam multiple times, in which case you must backup one file...). I can understand how it might be too complicated for you, VoodooV.

Clearly if you are offline there is no way Steam will know if you have the newest version, thus, so long as everyone has the same version, LAN play will work. It just makes sense to have the newest version... but if you don't want to...

The instructions also explicitly encourage you to connect to business and/or school networks in order to update.....places that IN ALL LIKELYHOOD have policies against using their network for entertainment uses.
Oh noes Steam encourages you to be an outlaw! I grieve for those poor impressionable souls led astray by evil Steam instructions.

Seriously... people need to come up with better reasons to dislike Steam (other than, "my pirated copy doesn't work any more boo hoo").

20.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 26, 2004, 23:41
20.
Re: No subject Oct 26, 2004, 23:41
Oct 26, 2004, 23:41
 
What happens when a HL2 patch breaks something....Since steam is a requirement, the patch is forced upon you, and you're fucked.

Not true.

1. Open up the Play Games Window.
2. Right Click on Half-Life 2.
3. Select Properties.
4. Go to dropdown box labeled "Automatic Updates"
5. Select "Do Not Automatically Update This Game"
6. Click Close.

You can now patch when you want to and not when steam wants you to. Of course you can't play multiplayer unless you update but that has always been the case anyway.


19.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 26, 2004, 22:38
19.
Re: No subject Oct 26, 2004, 22:38
Oct 26, 2004, 22:38
 
Steram isn't perfect, but like the other guy said: it's just a freaking interface, like the menus inside other games. Only it happens to be more useful. Get over it.

18.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 26, 2004, 21:57
18.
Re: No subject Oct 26, 2004, 21:57
Oct 26, 2004, 21:57
 
And please don't complain that...

"what if I am on a desert island with my computer so there is no internet but I want to play HL2 on a LAN with the other person who shipwrecked with me who also has a computer with him but I can't authenticate without steam servers omg wtf"

don't get me started on that bullshit, yes I know the offline mode, but have you read the instructions on how to activate it?

http://steampowered.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/steampowered.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=213&p_created=1094245645&p_sid=HECg_Yoh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0yNDQmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

The first step here is to perform the latest update and capture it. This is very important to make sure you get the latest content and bug fixes. Everyone that will be participating at the LAN event must have the latest update!

Easiest way
Bring the computer that will be playing offline to an available internet connection at a friend's house, school or perhaps business. Log into the account and do all the updates, make sure it all works.

RIDICULOUS! The convoluted nature of these steps inspires NO confidence in me that they want you to go offline, ever. I also find it amusing to note that the instructions require you to be at the latest patch level before you go offline

AND

The instructions also explicitly encourage you to connect to business and/or school networks in order to update.....places that IN ALL LIKELYHOOD have policies against using their network for entertainment uses.

This comment was edited on Oct 26, 21:59.
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