More on WHO Cancellation

Computer And Video Games offers a follow-up to the news that Warhammer Online has been cancelled (story), offering an insight into the economics of creating an MMOG along the way, while also providing reassurances that the game's demise was not also a death knell for Climax's Nottingham studio, where they already have another game in development. Here's a bit:
Karl Jeffery, Climax's CEO, has commented in some length on the closure of the title, saying: "It was a deeply sad thing for us to have to do after so much hard work and commitment from the entire team, but the costs involved in bringing the Warhammer massively multiplayer online game (MMO) to market meant that we were left with little choice."
...
He continued: "During the past few months Climax and Games Workshop have been undertaking a comprehensive review of the costs to complete and launch the game. MMO's have a very different business model from traditional (boxed) games and require a huge up front investment in servers, bandwidth and customer support teams.

"The actual cost of rolling out the game was far higher than either partner had anticipated and we have decided that we simply cannot justify it."
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25.
 
The Schizo PC fanbase at work...
Jun 23, 2004, 10:42
Eon
25.
The Schizo PC fanbase at work... Jun 23, 2004, 10:42
Jun 23, 2004, 10:42
Eon
 
So... If a game looks like it won't make the money because it doesn't have the market, or the quality, and so they decide not to release it - hit them in the beanbag.

If they DO release said doomed title then - hit them in the beanbag.

And you guys wonder why Developers are moving onto the consoles more?

24.
 
Re: Why WHO *really* died....
Jun 23, 2004, 01:43
24.
Re: Why WHO *really* died.... Jun 23, 2004, 01:43
Jun 23, 2004, 01:43
 
WHO really died because it was a suck-ass game made by suck-ass developers. Thats all nothing more.

23.
 
Re: Why WHO *really* died....
Jun 23, 2004, 00:01
23.
Re: Why WHO *really* died.... Jun 23, 2004, 00:01
Jun 23, 2004, 00:01
 
Edit: removed due to drinking : )

This comment was edited on Jun 23, 01:15.
22.
 
Why WHO *really* died....
Jun 22, 2004, 22:14
22.
Why WHO *really* died.... Jun 22, 2004, 22:14
Jun 22, 2004, 22:14
 
Found a link to this: http://www.fatbabies.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2659
on another forum. Look for the posts by Matt Sansam.

If you want some funny reading - there are two posts by Matt.

21.
 
MMPORPG
Jun 22, 2004, 18:29
21.
MMPORPG Jun 22, 2004, 18:29
Jun 22, 2004, 18:29
 
It seems to me that an MMPORPG is nothing more taking a game and turning it into a "reality" game where all your favorite characters from your favorite game universer hunker down and decide to get "real".

I mean come on. It's "Reality Web". What's so fun about coming home from work and then going to work in the Star Wars universe for a few hours so that you can earn a living there too. Soon there will be taxes that everyone will have to pay within each universe they are a part of. There will be problems converting money between the various universes. Laws will have to go into effect in every universe -- some will have to span universes.

Then Snow Crash. We programmers will have to look out for one another. I call no viruses!

20.
 
No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 18:22
20.
No subject Jun 22, 2004, 18:22
Jun 22, 2004, 18:22
 
somebody must have missed their nap time

_____________________________________________
Give me slack. Or kill me.
______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
19.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 17:40
19.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 17:40
Jun 22, 2004, 17:40
 
For the record, I have *many* more than 2 posts.

Now: back to the topic at hand...

18.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 17:33
18.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 17:33
Jun 22, 2004, 17:33
 
Um, Bosco? Did you understand what, exactly, he was calling "Just absurd..." ? I don't think you did.

Who asked you? I don't think you should have been born, but I keep it to myself... oh wait

P.s. Get more than 2 posts before you run that open sore you call a mouth.

Killian try not breathing.
This comment was edited on Jun 22, 17:36.
17.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 17:29
17.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 17:29
Jun 22, 2004, 17:29
 
Um, Bosco? Did you understand what, exactly, he was calling "Just absurd..." ? I don't think you did.

16.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 16:12
16.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 16:12
Jun 22, 2004, 16:12
 
Bosco - Try decaf.


15.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 14:57
15.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 14:57
Jun 22, 2004, 14:57
 
Amazing how both Mythica and Warhammer Online both suffered the same fate for the same reason: a lack of vision and planning. How can you spend all that time and money developing a MMO and then say, "Well we spent the past couple of months evaluating the market and it turns out that it's very competitive and expensive to create a MMO."

Just absurd...

No, you're absurd you waterhead. When an MMORPG is made it costs tons of money to run and if nobody is going to play the crap then it will lose money each month due to server and support. If you knew anything about business you would know that it would make sense, fool

14.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 14:53
14.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 14:53
Jun 22, 2004, 14:53
 
The only way MMORPGS make it in this world is if the concept is new and it will be sure to make lots of cash. Ie. Everquest, WoW and Star Wars.
This comment was edited on Jun 22, 14:55.
13.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 14:38
13.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 14:38
Jun 22, 2004, 14:38
 
Gimpzor, you haven't a clue. If you've read some interviews/articles or seen the screenshots and/or video's of the warhammer game Relic is making, you'd know it isn't standard RTS fare.

No resource-mining, strategic area's (more like rts-domination)...most definitely not a standard RTS. And most definitely nothing like C&C.

Please, Gimpzor...get a clue.

12.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 13:44
12.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 13:44
Jun 22, 2004, 13:44
 
I'm sure when they started development they overestimated the size and rate of growth of the MMORPG market. If the market today was as big as some estimates a few years ago, then the cost of launch may have been justified. I'm sure underestimated launch cost is just a piece of their reevaluation of the economics of the game.

Yes, the "estimated markets" for all kinds of things having to do with the Internet were way overblown a few years ago, and I think part of the problem--heck, I'd say all of the problem--for game developers from their end is this whole tendency to "genre-fy" everything into these neat little descriptive packages like "MMORPG" and "multi-player" and so on, just to have some kind of angle to pitch to investors or backers that sounds like something meaty and substantial, but surely isn't...;)

I mean, "MMORPG" doesn't really tell you anything about a specific game, does it?--Apart from the fact that the creators hope it will be good enough and therefore popular enough to attract a monthly subscription base large and faithful enough to recoup development and set-up costs and maybe even turn a profit...;)

I'd like to see investors and developers return to the idea that what is most important about any game is not what sort of genre it may be described as fitting, but whether the game is *good* or not--whether it's original, entertaining, and a quality production. If they'd work toward establishing that first, and worry over genre classification second, things would be a lot simpler all the way around, for investors and developers alike. IMO, any software company like EA, or interested investor groups, who decide to budget for "an MMORPG" and then go out looking for one are making a big mistake. They ought to be looking for quality and originality first, and worrying over genre second, whether that genre is MMORPG, SP, MP, etc. Of course, being able to spot quality in computer games isn't always easy--and that unfortunately is why genre-labeling like "MMORPG" has become as important a catch phrase as it has for investor groups. As we see here, though, catch phrases are no substitute for the real thing.



It is well known universally that I do not make mistakes--so, if you should happen across an error in that which I have written, please be assured that *I* did not write it!...:)
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11.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 13:05
11.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 13:05
Jun 22, 2004, 13:05
 
Amazing how both Mythica and Warhammer Online both suffered the same fate for the same reason: a lack of vision and planning.

That's not why Mythica was cancelled. Mythica was about to start alpha testing a week after it was canned. I know because I was invited to it as one of the guys running Mythica Realms. Mythica was cancelled more for political reasons - namely, Sigil. It was a stupid decision on MS' part. Mythica was going to be the first real next-gen MOG, and was a huge step in the right direction for MOG's. I still get pissed thinking about it.


"In this dirty-minded world you are either somebody's wife or somebody's whore - or fast on your way to becoming one or the other. If you don't fit either category, then everybody tries to make you think there is something wrong with you."
- John Irving
"And then, suddenly and without warning, it turned into a real-life case of hungry, hungry hippos."
- Stephen Colbert
10.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 12:44
10.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 12:44
Jun 22, 2004, 12:44
 
Yes, I agree (http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=49600&id=175484&boardid=1&view=threads). It's certainly possible they could make an Inquisitor-based RPG in the WH40k mindset (darker than KotOR), or a fantasy based one from all the material they've produced. Even if it's based off existing campaigns, there's no doubt a bajillion people who never played those out to begin with.

As to the new 40k game being RTS instead of TBS, I'm fine with that - there were two notable turn based attempts so far (Chaos Gate, Rites of War), of which only the former really worked for me. Even SpaceHulk was hard to translate well to a PC game; if I want to play the tabletop game, I'll find a tabletop... expand the licenses.

Say what you want about LucasArts, but they took the reams of background material they had access to and tried to stretch it in a LOT of different genres, from XvT, to the pod racing game to the RPGs to the FPS to RTS (Galactic Battlegrounds), not to mention the more notable failures like Force Commander or Rebellion.

There's a man out there I haven't seen in 15 years who's trying to kill me.
Use your head, don't lose it - Don't feed the trolls!
Boycott Belligerent Boycotters!
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9.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 12:34
9.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 12:34
Jun 22, 2004, 12:34
 
It probably went like this:

GW: Dude, your game sucks. We're canning it. You've had years and the best you can do is 3 craptastic models and 2 environments. Get lost.
Climax: But but but but but look!!! it's good!
GW: We don't need to spend any more millions on an MMO Q1 based game, bye.
Climax speaking to public: Our hard work and dedication to this excellent project has unfortunately gone to waste because GW is not willing to pay us to sit on our asses any more.

Good riddance.

8.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 12:30
8.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 12:30
Jun 22, 2004, 12:30
 
I'm sure when they started development they overestimated the size and rate of growth of the MMORPG market. If the market today was as big as some estimates a few years ago, then the cost of launch may have been justified. I'm sure underestimated launch cost is just a piece of their reevaluation of the economics of the game.

7.
 
Meanwhile...
Jun 22, 2004, 12:15
7.
Meanwhile... Jun 22, 2004, 12:15
Jun 22, 2004, 12:15
 
...the other MMOGs continue raping their customers...

Thinking Warhammer should push a few of the more simple genres first,
Ray

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6.
 
No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 11:59
6.
No subject Jun 22, 2004, 11:59
Jun 22, 2004, 11:59
 
come on Silent Storm 2.... show these bitches what for

_____________________________________________
Give me slack. Or kill me.
______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
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