Ships Ahoy - Thief & Singles

Eidos sends word of the online release of Singles: "Eidos (NASDAQ: EIDSY), one of the world's leading publishers and developers of entertainment software, today announced Singles: Flirt Up Your Life is now available for North America via online download. Singles, developed by the German development company, Rotobee, is an extreme reality simulation game for the PC that takes relationship building further than any other game has before. Eidos, in partnership with Deep Silver, a division of the KOCH Media Group, has made Singles: Flirt Up Your Life for PC available for purchase as of today on major online download sites." They also announce the release of Thief: Deadly Shadows in this press release:
Eidos plc, one of the world's leading publishers and developers of entertainment software, today announced it has shipped to stores across North America the highly-anticipated Thief: Deadly Shadows for the Xbox® video game system from Microsoft and PC. Thief: Deadly Shadows is the third chapter in the Thief saga, which originated the stealth gaming genre. For the first time in Thief franchise history, the game will be available on a game console and will feature a third-person perspective. Thief: Deadly Shadows leaves actions, decisions and consequences in the hands of the gamer -- the master thief Garrett.
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66.
 
I picked it up
May 27, 2004, 13:28
66.
I picked it up May 27, 2004, 13:28
May 27, 2004, 13:28
 
I picked it up last night and have only gotten the chance to play it on my laptop. Its an Athlon 64 w/a radeon 9600 and 512 MB ram.

I must say hooray for making a game that runs good on a middle of the road videocard. I have only played the tutorial, but I really, really, really like what I have experienced so far With DX2 I really, really, really did not like what I saw.

Hooray for thief ! Its 39.99 at your local EB.

Go ahead and grab it, you'll thank me later

65.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 12:15
65.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 12:15
May 27, 2004, 12:15
 
I've been playing Thief-DS hardcore since I purchased it last evening. Kudos to IS for delivering an awesome experience that feels EXACTLY like the series should. I've been a Thief fan from the beginning and I can say that this scratches the itch I've had for a new Thief game VERY nicely.

First vs. Third person: This is not an issue in any way. I like both for their benefits and like one of the other posters said, first person feels so much more immersive being able to see your shadow, your body and your breathing. And awesome way to deliver on the wall-flattening first person - I thought this might not have been executed well but it is quite well done. Third person is a nice addition and I look forward to a second play through using just third person (ala Splinter Cell).

Rope arrows - Meh, I don't miss them at all. There's plenty of ways to get up to areas above the guards and frankly, as a serious Thief fanatic, I am thankful for any ways that the game can be made more of a challenge for me.

Twitchy Mouse - I'm a little surprised Thief shipped with a known issue that was talked about in Deus Ex-IW. There's a variable in the default.ini file in your Thief /system folder labeled "MouesLagThreshold=75" that you need to change to 0. There are two entries in that file and I changed both. This will get rid of the shaky mouse and will MUCH improve your feeling of movement. Shame on IS for not addressing this carryover bug from Deus Ex!

Twitchy Animation - I see a little stuttering on guards but not bad...and on Garrett I never notice because I am always creeping or at most walking and the anims for Garrett doing these things look good to me. I never really run so I don't know how that looks.

The blue glow - A trifle on the "Hey Dummy! Over Here" side of game design, but I actually don't find it that obnoxious after playing for a while...It certainly helps to have the loot twinkle. Maybe it could have been toned back a bit on large objects like doors/crates/etc. But it's a game and it serves its purpose so I can overlook it.

Ragdoll physics - My only real complaint actually. Only because I think the ragdoll takes over too quickly. I would have preferred to see an actual "falling over" animation, and THEN have the ragdool kick in. As it is now, blackjacking a person results in some ugly and often comical poses for the characters.

For those who say that this game brings nothing new to the series - uhh, I don't think you're looking deep enough. But even if you dispute that, I can still say "If it ain't broke..." the thing is IS made a game that is true to the original series in so many ways that I am almost fooled into thinking I'm still playing Thief 1/2 which for me is great because that's what I wanted.

I could keep listing more things I like or don't like but that would cut into my playing time, so for those reading these posts to get an impression of the game - if you like Thief's signature style of gameplay, you should be at the least happy and enjoy the experience and at the most, like me, ecstatic and hopeful that the fan community will once again support the franchise with fan missions so that I can keep playing this gem of a game for years to come.

I give DS a 9 out of 10.

This comment was edited on May 27, 12:26.
64.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 11:55
64.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 11:55
May 27, 2004, 11:55
 
To be honest, this is a third-person game with a first-person mode that is nearly tacked on. With the lacking leaning, you are frequently forced to utilize the third-person perspective.

I only got to play the game for 30 minutes yesterday. But there is leaning, Ray!. You just can't lean forward (which isn't such a big issue for me).

So far, I think it's fun. I miss rope arrows, but so far I haven't noticed too much "simplification." The first cutscene was pretty cool (someone said there were none, but they're wrong).

I haven't had to go 3rd person yet (though I did once or twice just to see what it looked like). First person is more than adequate to play the game.

I'm hoping to really get into it tonight. Hopefully I won't have to move any more furniture and can just play it for like 2 hours straight (before dinner).


Pentium 4, 2.4GHz w/ 533Mhz FSB
1024MB PC2700 Crucial RAM
ATI Radeon 9800XT
Windows XP Pro
This comment was edited on May 27, 11:56.
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
63.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 09:59
nin
 
63.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 09:59
May 27, 2004, 09:59
 nin
 
Hmmm i was pretty sure that it used the Quake 1 engine, but whatever that wasn't exactly the point of my post.

The Thief series used the same engine as System Shock 2, I believe. Can't remember it's name..."Dark Engine" according to Gone Gone (that sounds right).

Jesus...built my car. It's a love affair (mainly Jesus and my hotrod).
62.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 09:41
62.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 09:41
May 27, 2004, 09:41
 
Thief did not use the Quake engine

Hmmm i was pretty sure that it used the Quake 1 engine, but whatever that wasn't exactly the point of my post. Ive played Thief 1 and it was a lot of fun, its just that from the reviews ive read of Thief 3, and from most of the people that have posted on this board, it seems like this is a slightly simplified version of the original game, there is nothing new in the game and people have stated that the engine is quite a bit off from being well tuned. On the positive side the graphics do look nice but I play my games mostly for the gameplay they offer and dont really care about great effects or glorious visuals. As far as Dan's review is concerned its like reading a fanboy glorification of the game. Its hardly objective.
So ill hold of on buying this game untill ive heard more people comment on it.

61.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 09:25
61.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 09:25
May 27, 2004, 09:25
 
I just hope IS (or the community...) will do something about the input issue. I do not know why some games have this type of input model (I have no idea what the technical side of this is), but nothing like having a 5.8 megapixel mouse and moving it fairly slowly, watching the in-game camera jerk ever so slightly from it.

Lastly, I just think the engine and made-for-Xbox design, although certainly not wrecking the game, do detract from it. Smaller levels, no rope, multi-loads, the saving state of the AI, less robust levels, etc.

I do have to admit that I am holding this game up to a holder standard due it the time it is being released versus the time frame the other two games were released. I do think that Thief 2 was a step up in general gameplay and polish from Thief and I was expecting a similar, if not larger, step up with Deadly Shadows. As I previously stated, I think it is, at best, as good as these relatively old games. Once I factor in the issues that small, yet accumulative, I do (currently - things could change by the end) hold it as the "worst" of the series.

It is not terrible, but I would not call this the second (third?) coming of Garrett. I absolutely swear from head to toe that this game would instantly improve if it was both made for the PC directly and then ported to the Xbox and if it used a different engine. Even the dark engine, although not going to win any beauty awards, did allow levels and gameplay that were a bit more accessible to the player than this engine does. Looking at newer releases, especially all the things Far Cry did right, and the other upcoming DX game, Half-Life 2, I cannot help but find fault with this poor engine.

Edit: One does become less irritated with these smaller things as time goes on - I am warming up to it slightly.

Hating those day-glo doors :o,
Ray


-----------------------
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I love you, mom.
This comment was edited on May 27, 10:04.
Everything is awesome!!!
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60.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 05:28
60.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 05:28
May 27, 2004, 05:28
 
To be honest, this is a third-person game with a first-person mode that is nearly tacked on. With the lacking leaning, you are frequently forced to utilize the third-person perspective.

This I have to totally disagree with. I haven't had to go third person yet, I find the leaning works just fine. I haven't wanted to lean forward yet, so the lack of that one feature may bother if I reach a point where I want it. I like the way the camera is on a physical character, I like seeing my shadow, I like the way I can sense the subtle breathing motions of Garrett when I'm still. The motion is different, but I'm not going to call it 'bad', it's actually growing on me. I feel much more like I am Garrett, even more so than the first 2 games.

I have mixed feelings about the loot twinkle. Trying to get 100% loot is still very difficult, even with the glint, but I do think it should have a range limit, or something, as sometimes it's a little silly. The loot hunt in the first thiefs could get very very frustrating at times, so I suspect this is also going to be a matter of opinion. I didn't see it as a 'dumbing down for the x-box crowd', as much as a 'trying to solve something that some fans of the first game found frustrating' thing. I do believe a range limit, and an option to disable it would have been the ideal here.

The missions split in half by the level load is a bit on the distracting side, but playing on expert I find myself spending sooo much time in each 'half' of the map that the forced 15 second break is nice, if nothing else I get to take a bathroom break. To be honest, I find the near constant map loads in KOTOR to be far more annoying (still love that game though.)

The one thing that is starting to bug the heck out of me is the blue glow to 'highlight' selectable items. It's fairly subtle and works well for most things, but on doors it almost makes me blind

I'll reserve judgement on where it fits in the series until after I've finished it at least once. There are parts of the first 2 games that I really don't like and seem very out of place, and those parts are around the middle of each game. It remains to be seen if I find TDS consistently fun throughout.

Hopefully Eidos give Ion the go ahead (money) to release a demo, since it seems this game (unlike DE:IW) has 'issues' that are much more dependant on personal likes/dislikes. I think each person will really need to decide for themselves.

I do miss my rope arrows though

Now I need some sleep...ZZzz

This comment was edited on May 27, 05:32.
59.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 03:47
59.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 03:47
May 27, 2004, 03:47
 
#57, if you're not trolling, it kinda reads like you are. On the offchance you're not, I'll bother replying.

You say you played Thief 1. If so, you know already why it's fun. If you didn't find that fun, don't buy Thief 3 -- it's the same deal.

Thief did not use the Quake engine, and no first-person game before or since has executed stealth gameplay as well as Thief did (not a strike against those other games -- they don't focus on it the way that Thief does).

Read Dan's review at TTLG if you need convincing (look for the link earlier in this thread).

58.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 03:06
58.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 03:06
May 27, 2004, 03:06
 
To be honest, this is a third-person game with a first-person mode that is nearly tacked on. With the lacking leaning, you are frequently forced to utilize the third-person perspective. Once I go third-person, I am starting at Garrett, I certainly lose any feeling that *I* am a character in this world, and you get a feeling of it being a bit cheap.

The game is ok, but it really does feel like more of the same. If anything, I would (currently) hold it as the worst in the series due to the niggling technical/design issues.

Technical and design issues - those are the real shortcomings of the game. I miss my "go anywhere" (kind of) ropes, the level loading is annoying and a stupid mark of the Xbox, the j...ER....K...y... animation really detracts from the atmosphere, the performance is not up to par with the on-screen visuals (it runs OK, but there are many better games that do more and run better,) it seems to have the same crappy input issues from IW (performance seems bad because input is not super smooth,) the loot twinkle is an obvious dumbing down, the levels are abit more linear due to the smaller level size (goodbye rooftops of Thief 2, the arrow animations seem really bland, etc.

Overally, I would say it is a 7 out of 10. It is ok and continues some basic, basic principles of the old Thief series, but the fine details can really get on my nerves. It goes through the paces, but it is missing the soul and passion of the two and a half original games. This engine really needs to be overhauled, too.

I do not mean this to be a slight to IS, but this is not the game that LGS would have made.

If you are Thief fan, pick it up; just know what you are getting into beforehand and adjust your expectations accordingly.

Of..F.......t......O........PL.....a......Y.....,
Ray



-----------------------
A Poster is Me!
http://users.ign.com/collection/RayMarden
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I love you, mom.
Everything is awesome!!!
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57.
 
Re: Question
May 27, 2004, 02:40
57.
Re: Question May 27, 2004, 02:40
May 27, 2004, 02:40
 
Erm, so let me get this straight. You sneak around in houses, stealing everything thats there (the stuff magically dissapears into your magic backpack of holding 100tons), you have bread knife that cant kill a rat with, let a alone a guard. And....Hmmm what else do you do in this game.
Why should I play this game? I mean if all there is to this game is sneaking around stealing stuff and hiding from guards in shadows. How can it be much fun? Do you get any better weapons later on? Is the story any good? I really liked the first game in the series. It showed off the great things that could be done with the Quake engine, it had a novel gameplay and a good story.
But now nearly every new shooter that comes out has a sneak mod of some kind built in. And now I hear Garrets trusty rope arrows and sword are gone too.
Can anyone out there convince me that this game is worth playing?

56.
 
Question
May 27, 2004, 02:17
56.
Question May 27, 2004, 02:17
May 27, 2004, 02:17
 
Do the guards notice your shadow when you, for example, stand around the corner and your shadow passes the hallway the guards walk?

How is Third Person Mode? A buggy lets-add-that-function-to-the-game-at-the-last-moment thing? Or does it play and feels good?

Are the guards a REAL challange or can you take them on after some training, just like in thief 1 and 2?

Playing: Skyrim, World of Warcraft.
Future: Dead Space 3.
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55.
 
diggin it
May 27, 2004, 01:01
55.
diggin it May 27, 2004, 01:01
May 27, 2004, 01:01
 
There's a few nits I could pick, but I'm not going to, the great big grin on my face won't let me...

the gameplay is definately Thief, through and through.

Back to the game!

54.
 
No subject
May 27, 2004, 00:57
54.
No subject May 27, 2004, 00:57
May 27, 2004, 00:57
 
Have been playing my copy as well. Definitely not too much of departure from the feel of the first too. Its easy to forget its a whole new game, minus the slightly updated graphics. The mid level loads are definitely annoying and unnecessary on a pc, but thats what happens when you make concessions for xbox.

The fact that level briefings are text with voice over, rather than the neat drawings with voice over, is a disappointment. Plus the quotes that used to appear with the cool animations to give them more of a dramatic feel, are now just plain text, most definitely less dramatic. Just another thing that could probably be blamed on the xbox, since it shows the quotes while loading the map.

This comment was edited on May 27, 00:58.
Avatar 14675
53.
 
Re: No subject
May 26, 2004, 19:33
53.
Re: No subject May 26, 2004, 19:33
May 26, 2004, 19:33
 
Great, can I get some real info about the gameplay

If you liked Thief: The Dark Project or Thief II: The Metal Age then you will like Thief: Deadly Shadows. I've completed the tutorial and am only part way through the first real mission so I can't comment on the city section. Level Design is just as freeform as either of the first two Thiefs, if more claustrophobic. Level loads are annoying but arn't anywhere near as pronounced as in DXIW. Got into a dagger fight with a guard and promptly died (this is on Expert), since then I've taken to running like hell whenever I've been caught, which has thankfully only been one other time. Graphics have the same style and atmosphere as the first two, they look good but not excellent, still not sure what the Gamespy reviewer was smoking. Haven't really gotten to see everything the AI has to offer but so far so good, much improved from DXIW. The latest ATI drivers seem to have issues with the realtime shadows but rolling back the drivers seem to have resolved that. Performance is good, not 85fps good but very playable at 1280x1024 at max detail. Lockpicking is a little more interesting than before, you move your mouse with the lock jiggling as you get warmer until you find the right spot and the tumbler moves into place. Trying to think of additional first impressions but that is what has stood out to me. Feel free to ask questions, I'll be at the library studying until 8:00 but once I'm back I'll answer anything that has been posted.

52.
 
Re: No subject
May 26, 2004, 19:13
52.
Re: No subject May 26, 2004, 19:13
May 26, 2004, 19:13
 
So some "real" people have gotten the game? Great, can I get some real info about the gameplay, cause after DX:IW...I'm afraid...

..very afraid.



--------------
Always expect the worst and you will never be dissapointed
51.
 
Re: No subject
May 26, 2004, 18:17
51.
Re: No subject May 26, 2004, 18:17
May 26, 2004, 18:17
 
£18 from play.com just gave me the confidence to get this one (so long as some more positive reviews and the Ray review smiles down on it!)

50.
 
Re: No subject
May 26, 2004, 17:50
50.
Re: No subject May 26, 2004, 17:50
May 26, 2004, 17:50
 
My copy just arrived! Installing now! *passes out in excitement*

49.
 
No subject
May 26, 2004, 13:25
49.
No subject May 26, 2004, 13:25
May 26, 2004, 13:25
 
ARRGGG!

I picked up my reserved copy during lunch today. The box looks neat, but I'm annoyed that I have to wait another 5 hours until I'm home and can play it.

Anyone have any personal reviews / comments about the game? Or is the only thing out there the big-company reviews, that never give a game less than 8 / 10.


Pentium 4, 2.4GHz w/ 533Mhz FSB
1024MB PC2700 Crucial RAM
ATI Radeon 9800XT
Windows XP Pro
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
48.
 
Re:
May 26, 2004, 11:32
48.
Re: May 26, 2004, 11:32
May 26, 2004, 11:32
 

After DXIW, I'd have to seriously consider whether or not I'd bother downloading Thief3 if it were free...

I might rent it to play on my xbox

DX:IW screwed me twice! First, I bought a PC copy for myself, and regretted it bigtime. THEN, my brother wanted it for his XBox (even though I told him it sucked). So I was out around $100 for a sh!tty game.

What made it even worse, is that the game cr@pped out on me. I was alternating 2 savepoints over and over. At some point, I got to a point in the game where the instant I tried progressign to the next level, the game would crash. So I never got too far past freeing Denton from the arctic cavern (a level beyond that I think). I eventually gave up.

In any case, I'm picking up my pre-ordered copy of Thief III today at the local Electronic Boutique.



Pentium 4, 2.4GHz w/ 533Mhz FSB
1024MB PC2700 Crucial RAM
ATI Radeon 9800XT
Windows XP Pro
This comment was edited on May 26, 11:33.
"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama
47.
 
Re: Hmm
May 26, 2004, 11:10
47.
Re: Hmm May 26, 2004, 11:10
May 26, 2004, 11:10
 
Well, IS may very well be sitting on a demo and may be announcing it sometime within the next seven days. Alternately, as you implied, the IW demo really only hurt IS/IW; it would not be the first time a developer has avoided releasing a (telling) demo and/or waited until well after the game has been released before releasing a demo.

Blah blah blah...my game should be here today, albeit likell not until I have made my way to work. I am a bit concerned by what I have read in the reviews - at best, this seems like more of the same, but shoved into a console engine.

I wonder what the "feel" of the game is like. How well does the grappling compensate IS' inability to program a basic rope function of the dark engine? Does the game move or play as clunky as IW? Do I still have the speed and freedom that the Thief series is known for; can I quickly jump across three open areas, grab some loot, and immediately vanish down a secret route? Just how limiting, both literally and seemingly, are the more linear routes and less robust levels? Is the basic gameplay still intact?

If the game is better than the previous two and a half, I will be quite surprised.

If the game is just on par with the previous two and a half games, I will be fairly content.

If the game is another disgrace to a loved series, I can only hope that IS either stops making games or focuses on simple, original console fare, preferraby of the budget type. If this is the case, I would ask that IS no longer make sequels to games that it has no passion for or understanding of.

Thinking of the departures when I read about this game's faults...,
Ray

-----------------------
A Poster is Me!
http://users.ign.com/collection/RayMarden
http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&sub=ANF&id=ray_marden
I love you, mom.
Everything is awesome!!!
http://www.kindafunny.com/
I love you, mom.
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