will be used by over 30 game publishers and developers."

That means the game devs don't care if one card is slightly faster than another. PS 3.0 matters to them.

No, it just means they paid money to get their stupid logo put at the start and on the boxes of games.
I remember 3dfx doing this same shit.

PS 3.0 is mostly performance increases over 2.0...


This comment was edited on May 11, 10:24.

PS 3.0 matters to them

Oh please. PS3.0 doesn't matter to anybody right now. Nor will it for 1.5-2 years.

How long was it from the first DX9 part (ATI Radeon 9700) until the first DX9 game (TR:AOD)? How much longer until we got a DX9 game that really utilized the API (Far Cry)?

not sure whats happening with the 64bit pentiums tho, havent seen any sign of em yet.

They aren't scheduled until sometime in 2005. And with Intel revamping its entire processor schedule now (throwing out NetBurst and adopting Pentium M for all future CPUs) it's even more unclear when they'll actually see the light of day.

The Athlon64 is quite nice though

Quoting recent article
"NVIDIA Corporation today announced that its GeForce™ 6 series of graphics processing units (GPU) is the overwhelming choice of publishers and developers participating in this week’s Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3). More than 500 PCs equipped with NVIDIA’s latest generation GeForce 6800 GPUs will be used by over 30 game publishers and developers."

That means the game devs don't care if one card is slightly faster than another. PS 3.0 matters to them.

Just got my new machine working, a P4 3.4 with a LeadTek 5900XT, and let me tell you, it's schweet. 3dMark03 score is 5539, right up there with the benchmarks from review sites. Nvidia will be rewarded for embracing new technology. I'm staying with them.

My current system is a 1.7 athlon with a gf2 mx400. im also waiting for pci express, the new type of ram and maybe even wait for the pentium 64bit processor to come out before i purchase a new computer. not sure whats happening with the 64bit pentiums tho, havent seen any sign of em yet.

i just hope i can hold myself back long enough to wait for the new tech to come out. should be able to since the only games i currently play is cs and UT2003

This comment was edited on May 11, 07:18.

Actually, PS3 is Nvidia's only real weapon - at least if it is ever used.

For now, PS3 just means faster PS2 image quality. If we are justlooking at PS2, ATI will likely pull ahead.

Now, if Nvidia can use its market muscle to get more/all games to use PS3, much less in a creative or "new" way, then ATI is quickly put to shame.

Of course, how long will that take? Even now, I view Far Cry as the only game to really utilize DX9/PS2.

Likely waiting until I can overhaul my system with a ~4GHz chip and PCI-Express next-gen card,
Ray

--------------------------------
http://www.thief3.org/
http://users.ign.com/collection/RayMarden
http://www.guzzlefish.com/collection.php?username=ray_marden
I love you, mom.

...this all ties into marketing, but how about actually making sure Half-Life 2 has shipped before offering vouchers for Half-Life 2 mods.

Watching The X-Files season 9 DVD set; cringing :|,
Ray

--------------------------------
http://www.thief3.org/
http://users.ign.com/collection/RayMarden
http://www.guzzlefish.com/collection.php?username=ray_marden
I love you, mom.

Check with valve themselves. According to there own survey, nvidia users outnumber ati users 2:1.

Yes, and how many of those cards are TNTs, GeForce MX's, or, frankly, anything but GeForce FX cards?

Most of them.

How many of the ATI cards are 9500, 9700, 9600, or 9800 cards?

Most of them.

What's my point? Simple -- nothing prior to the GeForce FX supported DX9 for nVidia. Nothing prior to the 9500/9700 supported DX9 for ATI. The non-DX9 path is a complete non-issue -- that's not what the game is targeted for, but it'll run just fine on it with fewer features. If you're going to upgrade though, then it was pretty clear last year who you should go with -- ATI had better speeds, better image quality, and decent drivers (which didn't need to cheat).

At this point in time it's a freaking tossup which card you should buy. The speeds are relatively the same as is the graphics quality. If HL2/D3 were to come out tomorrow then I'd go with an ATI card though, simply because they're available and they run cooler with less power usage.

I can see defending myself is pointless

Because you're being such a blatent fanboy it's disgusting. Hey, guess what -- my 3D video card history is V1->2xV2->GF2->GF4 Ti4200. And until the Radeon line came out I would never have touched ATI either. But they cleaned up their act -- it's now good hardware with decent drivers. Being a fanboy means that you've got your blinders on for no reason whatsoever -- is Nvidia paying you on the side? Will you die if you don't endorse them? Come on. It's just a freaking video card.

Fortunately HL2/D3 aren't coming out tomorrow. When they do finally lurch their way to store shelves then I'll evaluate the cards available then and buy -- and it'll be whoever has the best performance and quality for the price.

Well, Valve approached ATi, not the other way around.

And I don't have any more issues with ATi's drivers than with Nvidia's. Less if anything. I'm on my first ATi card ever.

HL2's performance on FX cards isn't a singular issue, it extends across the entire dx9 spectrum.

ahhh forget the PS 3.0 support my x800 pro just shipped from best buy and i will get it TOMM I happy i skipped the 9800 xt in favor of this one. Well i had no choice my 9700 pro died and i needed a new video card. So it just all worked out great. Now if ID can get out Doom 3 and and Valve HL-2 then i be in gaming heaven this summer

Note : you =/= most gamers.

Check with valve themselves. According to there own survey, nvidia users outnumber ati users 2:1.

I can see defending myself is pointless.. so this is my last reply.

Especially I don't get Valves decision to go with fp24 instead of 32.

that is compleatly incorrect.

So perhaps I'm biased ;p.

not only biased, but wrong.

Still, I don't see why people go with ATI. 10fps boost in exchange for almost 100% compatability with every game I get out of the box.

Try about 30fps AND twice the image quality. Yeah I REALLY can't see why people would go with ATI.
Drivers seem to be a hit and miss issue for everyone. I've always had trouble with Nvidia drivers, and I'm having trouble with ATI's drivers as well. Maybe I just update too quickly.

And yes.. I know all about the way nvidia and ati line the pockets of most devs and use logos and such. I wasn't born yesterday. I just am pissed since valve is clearly supporting ATI..

That's pathetic even for a fanboy.

even though most gamers still aren't using them.

Note : you =/= most gamers.

Creston

"Which boggles my mind because as many comparisons have stated the shader engine on the 6800u is far superior to that of the x800, offering not only shader 3.0 support but DX9c support AND virtually unlimited shader programing." -Fion

http://www.nordichardware.se/Recensioner/?page=13&skrivelse=223

And you make a later point about the performance difference; the games have to be coded specifically to take advantage of these features. In just about every review out there, they mention that nV has the 3.0 shaders while ATi doesn't, but the only real difference is a performance one, and even that may not be realized significantly or any time soon.

"FYI for those having problems with the ATI-HL2 bundle deal, many companies have opted out of it in spite of some legal issue. I think only cards made by ATI specificly support the deal now." -Fion

"So I may not be getting a confirmation number cuz my activation code is no longer valid?" -Ironman

It's true that some companies have stopped offering the coupons; however, if you recieved a coupon, it is and will be valid. If you're dropping a few hundred dollars for a video card that's supposed to last you at least a year and may last much longer, a freebie game that may last a month should be a minor concern. I'd be doubtful of the whole thing; while it's pretty widely assumed that CS2 is in production, there'd probably have been an announcement followed by a boatload of promotion, rather than one article with no confirmation from an already unreliable news source.

You mean there track record for incompatability with many games, OpenGL specificly. There driver problems, there hardware incompatability etc?

I'm not flaming you. I just think people put way to much stock into ATI's cards. Yea better performance (compared to the 5x line of nvidias Geforce FX's) but I personally don't think it's worth the trouble some people go through to get there ATI cards to work right with every other new game they buy.

Especially I don't get Valves decision to go with fp24 instead of 32. I mean they knew obviously that nVidia doesn't support it, and dispite what ATI fans would suggest, they basicly decided they didn't care on the vast majority of people who are going to play the game (There own Steam survey taken by over 50'000 people says the number of nvidia users over ATI is a 2:1 ratio). I just don't get the decisions. It doesn't make sense.. unless of course ATI is lining there pockets.

I do admit, I've been a hardcore nVidia fan since 3dfx went under. So perhaps I'm biased ;p. Still, I don't see why people go with ATI. 10fps boost in exchange for almost 100% compatability with every game I get out of the box.

And yes.. I know all about the way nvidia and ati line the pockets of most devs and use logos and such. I wasn't born yesterday. I just am pissed since valve is clearly supporting ATI.. even though most gamers still aren't using them.


This comment was edited on May 10, 20:14.

Vacs,

I don’t even know why I bother, and I thought I had made this clear in my last few post. I was at least comparing NVIDIA to NVIDIA as far as there laughable releases of PS2.0 and how it performed and now there new release of PS3.0 and how and this is very important I THINK IT MAY PERFORM! But your point was why any 1st gen should part fail and using ATI as an example, a completely different COMPANY with a completely different track record as far as new technology.

People amaze me you are trying to argue and insult me with something that there is no actual benchmarks or games that can back us up on, I say to you grow up and why not try express your opinions in an adult manor..

This comment was edited on May 10, 19:54.

Gamespot (positive about what they saw, but unconvinced and didn't feel like they saw much that was new)

Yeah, I thought it was dumb how much they bitched that "it's the same weapons as half-life". Don't fix what isn't broken, eh?

This comment was edited on May 10, 19:52.

Gabe Newell said that x800 is 40% faster then a 6800u in Half-Life2. Which boggles my mind because as many comparisons have stated the shader engine on the 6800u is far superior to that of the x800

I'd really like to know which of the "many comparisons" have said that.

offering not only shader 3.0 support but DX9c support AND virtually unlimited shader programing.

Shader 3.0 support in the 6800? Is that why, when Farcry detects that you have a 6800 in your system, it defaults to the setting where it ONLY uses 1.1 shaders, and NO 2.0 shaders? If Nvidia can't even get decent performance out of their 2.0 shaders, why would we give a shit about 3.0?

You simply CANNOT tell me with any truth that Valve isn't programing there game to work great on ATI hardware, and sup-par on nVidia hardware.

How long have you been in the PC gaming market, exactly? Ever heard of "Nvidia, The Way It's Meant To Be Played"? or ATI's promo (forgot the name)?
Ofcourse that's what Valve is doing, since they partnered with ATI. Other games do the same with Nvidia. In the end, it's all fucked up, so please stop your Nvidia Fanboy Righteous Indignation over the whole thing.

Not when John Carmack is so in favor of shader 3.0 and nvidias new card that he is already building his next engine USING IT!

Oh right, because Carmack is actually just plain stupid and really thinks that in, oh about five years, when his next engine is going to replace Doom 3, he'll still be using Shaders 3.0.
Carmacks always goes with the fastest card, it doesn't mean shit. It just means that whatever he's promoting at that point is the fastest card at that point. There's a pretty good chance that when he gets his hands on ATI's next baby, he'll switch stances again. He's been known to do that from time to time.

Stop viewing the world through your Nvidia box, it might help your perspective a little.


Creston

This comment was edited on May 10, 19:33.

ATI should stop burning their hands on Valve's bullshit promises. And since ATI's partners are pretty much thinking the same thing, I'd be really surprised if this comes to life.

Unless ATI is managed by a circus full of monkeys.

Creston