I really dislike how the gaming community has caved into Microsoft and left Opengl for MS proprietary kits

Because OpenGL has stagnated. OpenGL 2.0 is long overdue (as in, it was supposed to be finalized almost 2 years ago. It still isn't), and while OpenGL 1.5 supports all the graphical bling bling you could want, most of it is done through proprietary vendor extensions rather than standardized OpenGL calls. Implementing different extensions for different cards is a pain in the ass (witness the many different paths for Doom3).

The other thing is that OpenGL is purely a graphics API. That's fine and dandy -- it's the purpose of OpenGL after all, and I'm not suggesting that it should try to take on more. Thing is, DirectX is much more than just graphics. It's also an interface API (keyboard, mouse, joysticks, and other peripherals), a sound API, and other bits. The bigger issue here is that there is no one standard for implementing these other bits across platforms. Heck, there's not even one standard for this stuff on Linux alone. Doom3 will use DirectX as well as OpenGL -- the graphics engine will be OGL, but the sound and interface stuff will be DirectX (on Windows; don't know what API they're using for Mac and Linux). It makes cross platform programming a PITA and significantly reduces the appeal of bothering to do so at all.

And, finally, if you code in DirectX then it's a relatively easy port to the Xbox. Doesn't help with the other consoles, but that's not of Microsoft's concern (surprise, surprise).

Oh, and if you think I'm a MS fan... well, I'm eagerly awaiting my LinuxCertified 2210 laptop.

I still prefer writing in GL. The code always ends up shorter and cleaner. Maybe it's because I have more experience in GL, but I find it much faster to write a quick GL program to test out something. Add in the fact that it is cross-platform and it still has my vote. Of course, for a big publisher it might make more sense to go with DX. They are only targetting windows and the new cards are optimized for DX.

True, but IMO openGL is on its way out... unless you use linux, then it matters.

I'll be sticking with the NVIDIA card myself. I run both Windows and Linux and use various graphical applications in each, but you can’t use DirectX programs in Linux (natively supported, anyway) so it’s Opengl that matters. And you know what, Linux does have games! Gasp! Opengl is far better in the NVIDIA technology and they have way better driver support for Linux distros.

ATI looks to be a decent card, a wee tad cheaper and easier on power. However, it looks like it was heavily developed for DirectX performance. I really dislike how the gaming community has caved into Microsoft and left Opengl for MS proprietary kits. Carmack did a great thing back in the day releasing Linux ports and supporting Opengl. I hope, with the rise of Linux adoption in the home, more and more developers support open standards and cross platform support.

I'm going to be buying one of these bad boys in about 2 months or so (was going to get a 9800XT). Yep, 1 slot, much quiter and cooler, as well as cheaper. ATI has a an offer on their website for them right now. It's been a few years since I bought a new top end card, I deserve it.

http://www.ati.com/buy/promotions/rx800/retail.html

The Pro's are running 400 and the XT's are running 500 (US prices). Which isn't too bad considering the 9800XT's are still retailing for 400 and the Pro's are 300.


"It's like "Bang the Drum Slowly". Except the drum's a chick.
- Family Guy

Nvidia has the UE. You might want to check the reviews of it. Its about as fast as the X800XT, or even faster in a few benchmarks. Only FarCry is still a bit slower and it also looks like some DX9 titles are, but we will see what happens after it has been patched. people claim the 6800 sucks because the x800xt beats it in a few cases over a resolution of 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 8xAF. Not to mention that ATI still got problems with opengl performance. to me that sounds very pathetic.
Also its bogus that the 6800 needs a 480W PSU and is loud like a jet engine. You might want to check out the review at firing squad for example. They even tested the UE version with a 350W PSU incl. an loaded computer with 4 HDs, 2 CD drives, etc and it went smoothly without any problems. they also said that the fan is only a bit louder than the one from the 9800XT. But some other sites write its at least 5 times as loud... right. people are complaining about the second power connector. I remember when people complained about the one on the radeons. now they love it and would cry out loudly if ATI removed it. no, if ATI added a second one, it would have been perfectly okay.
It also looks like ATI is at the end of their technology now. all X800s Ive seen in reviews werent overclockable very much, but the nvidias all went up quite a lot.
I dunno, I am no nvidia fanboy, but somehow I have a strong feeling that ATI has an extremely fanatic base of fanboys right now. take a look at all the flame wars in the forums. people would kill each other (especially the ATI guys) if they would sit next to each other. and I guess I know why it is that way. the ATI guys noticed that they are no longer that invulerable...
I think a lot of review sites are extremely fanboyish and are leaving out facts.

This comment was edited on May 6, 16:44.

Yeah, I agree. NVidia needs to get busy on something better if they want to get more sales. Their new card will be fast, but it's no better than the X800 from looking at the reviews. And seeing as it requires 2 molex power connectors and a hefty PSU, many people will stay away from it.

NVidia should have introduced the current 6800 cards, then after ATi released the X800, nVidia should have came back with an even faster 20-pipeline card to take everyone by surprise. Of course in doing that they'd have reduce the projected prices of each 6800 model so that the faster card isn't $600.

Oh well, with id and Valve taking their sweet time to release D3 and HL2, I have plenty of time to see how the new vid cards do in the coming months.. and see how the mid-ranged versions do.

What comes around, goes around. Ati now, Nvidia then, 3DFX before that. Nvidia probably have a better shot now than 3DFX did then. I remember the day I decided I was going to get a TNT for my new PC instead of a Voodoo. Tough decision at the time. Stuck with Nvidia for a LONG time though.

So anyway, apparently 10% of US citizens are morons. Not me talking, it's the news. 10%. Of course that doesn't count the ones who can't figure out the Internet. "Internet savvy moron" - would make for a cool T-shirt.

I hope that NVIDIA is able to get some more serious competition on. The fanboys alone can't keep them in business and their fanboy numbers are dropping every day. Their cards are good to be sure, but they're got to fight hard to win the hardcore gamers.

Parallax Abstraction
Technical Consultant, Hardcore Modern and Retro Gamer, Video Game Historian
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

If X800 is as good as it claims to be, and is cheaper, Nvidia is in big trouble..

According to reviews posted yesterday, the top-end card (X800XT Platinum or something), it requires slightly less power than a 9800XT and requires one molex connector. It's also slightly quieter than a 9800XT.

I wonder if it will need a nuclear power station and require 2 slots like the nVidia 6800s...