Carmack at GDC Follow-up

To follow-up on the discrepancy between the two accounts of John Carmack's address at the GDC yesterday, a reader named Rene Patnode who attended the talk offers his perspective saying the HomeLAN Fed account is the more accurate of the two: "I can tell you that HomeLan Fed is a LOT closer to the truth. He mentioned Quake II as a former possible idea, but it was only that. What he did say was that the likely next id game will be a slight variation of Doom 3.... I personally would expect a mission pack or something on the order of Team Arena. Pretty close is also better than really close." Likewise, GameSpy's Carmack Address Recap likewise confirms that it was Computer and Video Games that came away with the wrong take on the facts here:
One interesting idea that Carmack said was discussed early on in DOOM 3's development was a product specifically meant to be a rendering showcase. In this case, the idea was to do a "Quake 2 remix" - to rebuild the game using all-new assets and technology. "But even the idea of just reskinning an old game brings with it the problems that as we have newer graphics technology, media creation demands get worse and worse..."
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1.
 
Visions of the good ol days...
Mar 26, 2004, 10:39
1.
Visions of the good ol days... Mar 26, 2004, 10:39
Mar 26, 2004, 10:39
 
Maybe this is a return to the old days of DOOM, when you didn't need to develop a whole new engine for a new game, just make a full continuation sequel using the same engine. I for one would not be opposed to that, like a mission pack.

-Azrael
"Don't Fear the Reaper, fear ME."
-Azrael
"Don't Fear the Reaper, fear ME."
http://gamershots.net
2.
 
Re: Visions of the good ol days...
Mar 26, 2004, 10:48
nin
2.
Re: Visions of the good ol days... Mar 26, 2004, 10:48
Mar 26, 2004, 10:48
nin
 
I just want that random level generator they've talked about...

http://www.kmfdm.net/
3.
 
Re: Visions of the good ol days...
Mar 26, 2004, 10:51
Tom
3.
Re: Visions of the good ol days... Mar 26, 2004, 10:51
Mar 26, 2004, 10:51
Tom
 
Before there were any map editors for Quake, I wrote a random map generator. It was pretty cool - random planes floating around in space...

4.
 
Re: Visions of the good ol days...
Mar 26, 2004, 11:20
4.
Re: Visions of the good ol days... Mar 26, 2004, 11:20
Mar 26, 2004, 11:20
 
Back in the day, I played Doom deathmatch on randomly generated levels, I think using Slige [1]. It was one of the things I initially missed after moving to Quake1. The f'awesome thing about random maps is that they don't have to be well balanced (because you're only going to play any particular map for some short time). In fact, finding the campy spots or discovering sweet spots of powerups (such as a chain of three invis), and exploiting that, is what deathmatching on random maps is all about.

[1] http://doomworld.com/slige/


5.
 
Rehashing the same old
Mar 26, 2004, 11:36
5.
Rehashing the same old Mar 26, 2004, 11:36
Mar 26, 2004, 11:36
 
Agree with it or not, one of the criticisms constantly levelled against id is that they rehash the same old stuff, the same tired shooter formula, only in newer and flashier engines. Good thing they didn't go ahead with THAT plan. Quake 2 was good but not THAT good.

6.
 
Re: Rehashing the same old
Mar 26, 2004, 11:49
6.
Re: Rehashing the same old Mar 26, 2004, 11:49
Mar 26, 2004, 11:49
 
ID makes engines now, nothing more.

7.
 
Re: Rehashing the same old
Mar 26, 2004, 11:56
7.
Re: Rehashing the same old Mar 26, 2004, 11:56
Mar 26, 2004, 11:56
 
Well said

8.
 
No subject
Mar 26, 2004, 11:57
8.
No subject Mar 26, 2004, 11:57
Mar 26, 2004, 11:57
 
So instead Raven Software is making Quake 4, which is supposed to be based on Quake 2.

Supporter of the "a happy fredster is a fredster boiled in acid and dipped in wax" fanclub.
-------------------
Ignore me!!!
9.
 
Boo...
Mar 26, 2004, 12:27
Q
9.
Boo... Mar 26, 2004, 12:27
Mar 26, 2004, 12:27
Q
 
A Commander Keen remake using the DOOM3 engine please.

Cyberdemon Ate My Babysitter!

10.
 
Observation
Mar 26, 2004, 12:44
10.
Observation Mar 26, 2004, 12:44
Mar 26, 2004, 12:44
 
Technological innovation aside... id software hasn't come up with an original idea in over a decade. That's ok. Keep pumping out those game engines and let -real- game designers make it fun.
___________________________________________
My Blog = http://the.postingstation.com
11.
 
Re: Observation
Mar 26, 2004, 13:05
11.
Re: Observation Mar 26, 2004, 13:05
Mar 26, 2004, 13:05
 
Technological innovation aside... id software hasn't come up with an original idea in over a decade.

Flashback: id announced that their next game, Quake3, would be deathmatch/multiplayer only, causing an industry-wide and community-wide uproar.

I'd call that fairly original -- to explicitly design a game without traditional single player missions: find the key, blow up the crate, etc.


12.
 
Re: Rehashing the same old
Mar 26, 2004, 13:15
12.
Re: Rehashing the same old Mar 26, 2004, 13:15
Mar 26, 2004, 13:15
 
ID makes engines now, nothing more.

Its been a long time since their last release - Q3:TA in 2000, which was in my opinion a game that did everything it set out to do.

Seeing as their latest effort is nearly finished its probably best to wait and see what its like before panning it. You might be right, but you might be wrong.

To be honest I'm more concerned about QuakeIV. I've found the Q3 based games coming out of Raven to be a bit samey. My interest perked up when I saw the leaked concept designs (BIIIG Bosses), and I'd like to have another go on the old Q2 weapons again in a new game.
I'm more interested in seeing what Nerve do with the D3 multiplayer and whatever project Gray Matter might have in the works.

This comment was edited on Mar 26, 13:22.
13.
 
No subject
Mar 26, 2004, 13:50
13.
No subject Mar 26, 2004, 13:50
Mar 26, 2004, 13:50
 
Who cares if their games aren't innovative. They make the engines, and people like Valve turn them into amazing games (of course, not for HL2). I am excited to play Doom3 and HL2, but I'm even more excited to get my hands on these engines and see what others will do with them.

14.
 
Re: No subject
Mar 26, 2004, 13:56
nin
14.
Re: No subject Mar 26, 2004, 13:56
Mar 26, 2004, 13:56
nin
 
Like all you "they only make engines" people won't be shitting your pants the first time you play Doom3...

http://www.kmfdm.net/
15.
 
Re: Rehashing the same old
Mar 26, 2004, 14:01
15.
Re: Rehashing the same old Mar 26, 2004, 14:01
Mar 26, 2004, 14:01
 
I'm more interested in seeing what Nerve do with the D3 multiplayer and whatever project Gray Matter might have in the works.

[crossesfingers]
RtCW 2 where you go back into but this time your journey takes you to not only German strongholds but Japanese strongholds after you learn the Germans have smuggled some of their technology to Japan who desperately needs anything to stop the impending invasion of the home islands. Fight bio-engineered samurai nazis or mutated kamikaze soldiers.

And mutliplayer is actually not two-sided but THREE sided (Allied, German, Japanese) meaning a well balanced team will be successful in both the attack and defense, often at the same time.
[/crossesfingers]

Oh gawd how I wish!
-Sphinx
16.
 
Re: No subject
Mar 26, 2004, 14:05
16.
Re: No subject Mar 26, 2004, 14:05
Mar 26, 2004, 14:05
 
Like all you "they only make engines" people won't be shitting your pants the first time you play Doom3.

Nah, I bought some Oops I Crapped My Pants. I use them, and I just did. No worries
-Sphinx
17.
 
Actually
Mar 26, 2004, 14:20
17.
Actually Mar 26, 2004, 14:20
Mar 26, 2004, 14:20
 
I thought the Quake 2 single player was pretty damn fun. If they redid it with the Doom 3 engine, I'd be first in line to buy it.

I probably agree with the stigma that Id now only makes engines, and can't make a fun game with it anymore (although I guess the umpteen million people who played Quake 3 probably wouldn't agree), but that doesn't mean that their engines aren't the absolute finest in the industry (and I'm sure I'll get a lot of Unreal fan flames for this).

I think Id just lost too much creative talent to really come up with something spectacular anymore. I'm fine with them just making the engine, farming it out, and letting others make great games with it though.

In fact, I would prefer it if game development would get centered around two or three engines at most. While it's fun to see a new developer build their own new kick-ass engine, it definitely adds to the "this driver works with that engine, but at that setting, while so and so third party driver does best with this engine, and that engine just doesn't work because of my soundcard, and this..." etc etc

With fewer engines, I would think actually getting games to work like they should would become easier on the PC, as opposed to the fucking hassles most of the PC gameplaying crowd has been put through the last few years.

Still really hoping Doom 3 will come out April 15th..

Creston


Avatar 15604
18.
 
Where to start...
Mar 26, 2004, 15:15
18.
Where to start... Mar 26, 2004, 15:15
Mar 26, 2004, 15:15
 
Yeah I'm gonna crap my pants the first time I play Doom3, why you ask? Cause my 3 gig processor with 2 gigs of ram and 1/4th a gig of ram video card will only play the game at 600x480 getting 30fps, and me having a shit fit cause of the res and framerate.

And I have been saying it for years, id doesn't make games anymore they make engines, and for those engines they make a tech demo. Companies like Raven take that Engine and turn a piece of coal into a Diamond.

As for Engines I think there is plenty of room for both Quake3/Doom3 Engine and the Unreal Engine. I mean look at what all Raven has done with Quake3, and what Ubisoft/Redstorm Entertainment has done with Unreal.

And the last time 4 times I crapped my pants playing games was Aliens Vs Predator 2 (scared the crap right out), and Seeing Splinter Cell for the first time, and City of Hero's for finally getting the tech right to have huge outdoor areas and 50+ NPC's/PC's on the screen and my computer didn't stutter and for Far Cry's wonderful first demo with all the reflective water stuff turned on. Not only did I crap my pants but almost blew a load on it

Avatar 12670
19.
 
Re: Observation
Mar 26, 2004, 15:20
Sty
19.
Re: Observation Mar 26, 2004, 15:20
Mar 26, 2004, 15:20
Sty
 
I'd call that fairly original -- to explicitly design a game without traditional single player missions: find the key, blow up the crate, etc.

Unfortunately it wasn't 'original'. Q3 trailed Tribes by over a year in release.

You know selling dlc before you patch the client doesn't impress upon me the need to support your shit. -massdev
Avatar 13874
20.
 
Re: Observation
Mar 26, 2004, 15:22
indiv
 
20.
Re: Observation Mar 26, 2004, 15:22
Mar 26, 2004, 15:22
 indiv
 
Flashback: id announced that their next game, Quake3, would be deathmatch/multiplayer only, causing an industry-wide and community-wide uproar.

Flashback: Dynamix released Starsiege Tribes in 1998, beating Quake 3 to market by an entire year. id's original idea wasn't so original anymore.

edit: Doh, pwn3d by Sty.
This comment was edited on Mar 26, 15:23.
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