but that doesn't mean that their engines aren't the absolute finest in the industry (and I'm sure I'll get a lot of Unreal fan flames for this).

I won't flame you but I don't think I agree with you. It depends on your definition of finest. id has always made engines designed around a specific game. Take a peak at the now-public source code for Quake and Quake 2 sometime to see what I mean. It's pretty interesting just looking through the header files. If you include flexibility in your definition of finest, I don't think you can apply that id engines. Their engines are notoriously difficult for licensees to adapt. Even if you're thinking solely of visual quality, well remember that Doom3 is being meticulously designed to show off the engine at its very best. Monsters are placed and move where the shadows and light look the most spectacular on their bump-mapped little skins. Levels will tend to be much more confined with relatively short lines of sight so that PCs don't crawl to a stop trying to dynamically light them. No doubt the Doom3 engine will be light years ahead of any other when it comes to the visual quality of Doom3, but try and apply it to other games ... I dunno.

Personally, I'd prefer to have monsters placed where they do the most for gameplay and not where they look the best. I like wide-open outdoor levels with lots of foliage, town squares, aircraft hangars, etc., that are more than just a few feet across, when the game calls for things like that.

Still, I'm looking forward to Doom 3. It's been a LONG time since I played a scary game and Doom 3 is sounding pretty scary to me.

Flashback: id announced that their next game, Quake3, would be deathmatch/multiplayer only, causing an industry-wide and community-wide uproar.

Flashback: Dynamix released Starsiege Tribes in 1998, beating Quake 3 to market by an entire year. id's original idea wasn't so original anymore.

edit: Doh, pwn3d by Sty.
This comment was edited on Mar 26, 15:23.

I'd call that fairly original -- to explicitly design a game without traditional single player missions: find the key, blow up the crate, etc.

Unfortunately it wasn't 'original'. Q3 trailed Tribes by over a year in release.

Yeah I'm gonna crap my pants the first time I play Doom3, why you ask? Cause my 3 gig processor with 2 gigs of ram and 1/4th a gig of ram video card will only play the game at 600x480 getting 30fps, and me having a shit fit cause of the res and framerate.

And I have been saying it for years, id doesn't make games anymore they make engines, and for those engines they make a tech demo. Companies like Raven take that Engine and turn a piece of coal into a Diamond.

As for Engines I think there is plenty of room for both Quake3/Doom3 Engine and the Unreal Engine. I mean look at what all Raven has done with Quake3, and what Ubisoft/Redstorm Entertainment has done with Unreal.

And the last time 4 times I crapped my pants playing games was Aliens Vs Predator 2 (scared the crap right out), and Seeing Splinter Cell for the first time, and City of Hero's for finally getting the tech right to have huge outdoor areas and 50+ NPC's/PC's on the screen and my computer didn't stutter and for Far Cry's wonderful first demo with all the reflective water stuff turned on. Not only did I crap my pants but almost blew a load on it

I thought the Quake 2 single player was pretty damn fun. If they redid it with the Doom 3 engine, I'd be first in line to buy it.

I probably agree with the stigma that Id now only makes engines, and can't make a fun game with it anymore (although I guess the umpteen million people who played Quake 3 probably wouldn't agree), but that doesn't mean that their engines aren't the absolute finest in the industry (and I'm sure I'll get a lot of Unreal fan flames for this).

I think Id just lost too much creative talent to really come up with something spectacular anymore. I'm fine with them just making the engine, farming it out, and letting others make great games with it though.

In fact, I would prefer it if game development would get centered around two or three engines at most. While it's fun to see a new developer build their own new kick-ass engine, it definitely adds to the "this driver works with that engine, but at that setting, while so and so third party driver does best with this engine, and that engine just doesn't work because of my soundcard, and this..." etc etc

With fewer engines, I would think actually getting games to work like they should would become easier on the PC, as opposed to the fucking hassles most of the PC gameplaying crowd has been put through the last few years.

Still really hoping Doom 3 will come out April 15th..

Creston

Like all you "they only make engines" people won't be shitting your pants the first time you play Doom3.

Nah, I bought some Oops I Crapped My Pants. I use them, and I just did. No worries

I'm more interested in seeing what Nerve do with the D3 multiplayer and whatever project Gray Matter might have in the works.

[crossesfingers]
RtCW 2 where you go back into but this time your journey takes you to not only German strongholds but Japanese strongholds after you learn the Germans have smuggled some of their technology to Japan who desperately needs anything to stop the impending invasion of the home islands. Fight bio-engineered samurai nazis or mutated kamikaze soldiers.

And mutliplayer is actually not two-sided but THREE sided (Allied, German, Japanese) meaning a well balanced team will be successful in both the attack and defense, often at the same time.
[/crossesfingers]

Oh gawd how I wish!

Like all you "they only make engines" people won't be shitting your pants the first time you play Doom3...

http://www.kmfdm.net/

Who cares if their games aren't innovative. They make the engines, and people like Valve turn them into amazing games (of course, not for HL2). I am excited to play Doom3 and HL2, but I'm even more excited to get my hands on these engines and see what others will do with them.

ID makes engines now, nothing more.

Its been a long time since their last release - Q3:TA in 2000, which was in my opinion a game that did everything it set out to do.

Seeing as their latest effort is nearly finished its probably best to wait and see what its like before panning it. You might be right, but you might be wrong.

To be honest I'm more concerned about QuakeIV. I've found the Q3 based games coming out of Raven to be a bit samey. My interest perked up when I saw the leaked concept designs (BIIIG Bosses), and I'd like to have another go on the old Q2 weapons again in a new game.
I'm more interested in seeing what Nerve do with the D3 multiplayer and whatever project Gray Matter might have in the works.

This comment was edited on Mar 26, 13:22.

Technological innovation aside... id software hasn't come up with an original idea in over a decade.

Flashback: id announced that their next game, Quake3, would be deathmatch/multiplayer only, causing an industry-wide and community-wide uproar.

I'd call that fairly original -- to explicitly design a game without traditional single player missions: find the key, blow up the crate, etc.

Technological innovation aside... id software hasn't come up with an original idea in over a decade. That's ok. Keep pumping out those game engines and let -real- game designers make it fun.

A Commander Keen remake using the DOOM3 engine please.

Cyberdemon Ate My Babysitter!

So instead Raven Software is making Quake 4, which is supposed to be based on Quake 2.

Supporter of the "a happy fredster is a fredster boiled in acid and dipped in wax" fanclub.

Well said

ID makes engines now, nothing more.

Agree with it or not, one of the criticisms constantly levelled against id is that they rehash the same old stuff, the same tired shooter formula, only in newer and flashier engines. Good thing they didn't go ahead with THAT plan. Quake 2 was good but not THAT good.

Back in the day, I played Doom deathmatch on randomly generated levels, I think using Slige [1]. It was one of the things I initially missed after moving to Quake1. The f'awesome thing about random maps is that they don't have to be well balanced (because you're only going to play any particular map for some short time). In fact, finding the campy spots or discovering sweet spots of powerups (such as a chain of three invis), and exploiting that, is what deathmatching on random maps is all about.

[1] http://doomworld.com/slige/

Before there were any map editors for Quake, I wrote a random map generator. It was pretty cool - random planes floating around in space...

I just want that random level generator they've talked about...

http://www.kmfdm.net/