I havent bothered reading the whole of WOT:CoD. WH took it out of me. I just go to linuxmania to read the summary now.

One of my biggest beefs is the relative flatness of his female characters.

Can't be that flat with the way they are continually crossing their arms under their breasts...

See I thought along the same lines, ofcourse it took me re-reading the books about 3 times to catch just about everything. I don't read for a living, but you can miss the subleness in the books. The points are laid there for why and how, but some of what is required to understand the theology in the books requires you to understand atleast five different religions...in the least I'd say. Very strong elements from both Christianity and Buddism, with underlying elements from atleast three more.

Until his most recent release (not the prequel, the one before that) I re-read every prior book in the series in order to freshen my memory. So at this point I've read Eye of the World nine times. The biggest factor in re-reading for me is to see the prophecy and foreshadowing come to light. His mythos is certainly pulled from everywhere. You forgot Norse mythology. He pulls very heavily from that. Matt = Odin, Rand = Tyr, Horn of Valere = Heimdall's horn.

These are good sources for WoT info:

http://www.wotmania.com/ - little of this and that

http://www.linuxmafia.com/jordan/ - FAQ that is well done.

I like the series, I'm just not totally happy with the direction it is taking. One of my biggest beefs is the relative flatness of his female characters.



-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.com

Incomplete or illegible submissions will not be processed, honored, acknowledged or returned.

Are you the same Bronco as the one in the GC2 beta? WF_Bronco

Sorry, no.

-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.com

Incomplete or illegible submissions will not be processed, honored, acknowledged or returned.

And those of us who enjoy the finer descriptive writing styles of it? Bah...I'd almost swear half the problem is people don't have any patience anymore to actually sit down and read something. If a book has less then 700 pages I'm feeling gypped when I buy it. If I'm dropping $35 on a book I want something that is descriptive and in a stance of good quality writing.

I've been reading War and Peace for at least 4 months now. At 1600+ pages Tolstoy still manages to move the plot line forward faster than Jordan. I'm sorry but there is no way you could convince me that any editor worth his/her salt could not cut at least 400 pages out of the last 5 Jordan books and turn them into a better story.

How many people in this forum have even read an epic's for fun besides WoT? I'll bet that you can count them on one hand. Tho you might be pushing it and might have to goto both hands.

I would certainly say you are wrong here. I've had book discussions with at least a dozen different people here. Creston, Devster, Schnapple are three right off the top of my head. It is not just Sci-Fi either. Steinbeck, Hemingway, Orwell and more.

I have New Spring sitting on my nightstand. I'll read right after I finish War and Peace next are the Melville's short stories. Due to time constraints I'm not the reader I would like to be.

-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.com

Incomplete or illegible submissions will not be processed, honored, acknowledged or returned.

There's a difference between "finer descriptive writing" and freaking repetitive, boring crap. Jordan started off with the former, but has rapidly descended into the latter. ...

Don't forget not everyone is blessed with a memory that reaches back quite so far. That means that having individuals marked does mean something for us, not counting the length of time between the release of each book which has been between two and three years. While you bring up a fine point of being verbose and being inane, it comes down to the eyes of the reader doesn't it? I'm quite sure not everyone here sits around and reads thesis papers on nano-polymer techniques. I've read two in the last 6 months or so. One I would say was being verbose, the other inane. Yet the 'inane' article recived much higher acclaim then the verbose one in scientific circles.

in particular deus ex machina's in bringing back dead characters without setting foundation for doing so.

See I thought along the same lines, ofcourse it took me re-reading the books about 3 times to catch just about everything. I don't read for a living, but you can miss the subleness in the books. The points are laid there for why and how, but some of what is required to understand the theology in the books requires you to understand atleast five different religions...in the least I'd say. Very strong elements from both Christianity and Buddism, with underlying elements from atleast three more.

I'm not sure I'm underestimating by all that much to tell you the truth. If previous experiance has taught me anything, my guesses are probably close to right. That in itself is scary but also marks a fault in itself.

My biggest gripe with the last few books is how pointless they are in moving the plot forward. You could eliminate the last three books from the series and never miss a thing. I don't mind the details but I expect each book, especially ones as large as these, to significantly advance the story. I think that's the least a reader can expect out of a series. It really does seem like he's milking a cash cow TO DEATH. Squeezing every last penny out of the franchise he possibly can.

And as for deus ex plot lines (spoiler hidden):
How crappy was that cleansing of the taint part? The guy just seemed to instinctively know how to do it, like some miracle. Something like that should have been the main focus of an entire book, not some disappointing chapter or two near the end. Finding out how to do it, hunting for lost lore, getting the tools, doing dangerous experiments, attracting the attention of the Dark One ... I don't know, there should have been more to it. But I especially hated how he just seemed to know what he was supposed to do.

Has anybody ever seen it on TV? I'm thinking it's a little too bizarre to be placed in many mainstream shows.

It's not a real commercial. It's a promotion for the advertising agency that created it.

by god this is a funny advert:

That is funny. Has anybody ever seen it on TV? I'm thinking it's a little too bizarre to be placed in many mainstream shows.

-------------------------------------------------------
Never underestimate the powers of a dark clown.

This has probably had a blues link before but by god this is a funny advert:

http://www.turnpikefilms.com/spots/nutrigrain.html

I was fortunate enough to drop the WoT series early on, I personally can't stand Robert Jordan. On amazon.com, I see that Crossroads of Twilight (book 10!?) has an average reader review of 1.5 stars out of 5.

I'm currently reading The Last Light of the Sun by Guy Gavriel Kay. Kay's writing is of such a high caliber that I have to pace my reading lest I spend an entire day plowing through the entire novel.

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 10:08.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm choosing the devil I don't know.

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 06:15.

And those of us who enjoy the finer descriptive writing styles of it?

There's a difference between "finer descriptive writing" and freaking repetitive, boring crap. Jordan started off with the former, but has rapidly descended into the latter. He has more than enough material to cover without having to repeat character traits dozens of times within the same chapter.

I enjoy descriptive writing -- Clancy, Stephenson, and many others -- but there's a line between being verbose and being inane.

How many people in this forum have even read an epic's for fun besides WoT?

I think you're vastly underestimating how much the Blue's crowd reads. I've read dozens of epics, by multiple authors. Some I felt sucked (The Thomas Covenant seris by Donaldson) despite their acclaim (I liked his other books, but just couldn't get into the self-pity of the main character in that series), some I absolutely loved (Empire series by Wurts/Feist; by far the best of the various series IMO).

Jordan's first 5 books were excellent. But he's been pulling a number of no-no's, in particular deus ex machina's in bringing back dead characters without setting foundation for doing so. The pacing of the books has slowed down to a crawl, and the characters are increasingly becoming flat and two dimensional instead of fleshing out and evolving as they should.

Oh, I'll probably keep reading, but it's not a series I'd recommend anyone start reading at this point. At least not until it's finished. There's plenty of books and series that have a strong start and a weak ending -- and it's looking like this may be another one of them.

I hope the movies are a little bit different. Then everyone would still have a reason to read and watch both versions. It worked for Dune, LotR, Jurasic Park, Starship troopers, etc. And making an animated series would be great. They should do both! The animated LotR movies were fun to watch.
I'd like to see some Death Gate Cycle movies
The WoT books are fine, but he needs to add something new and a little more danger(Headaches are not scary).. Maybe he should kill one of the main characters.. I vote for Cadsuane or Elayne

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 04:08.

Are you the same Bronco as the one in the GC2 beta? WF_Bronco

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 02:39.

He spends three pages describing the uniform of one country or another and still manages to use the same tired 'arms folded under breast, mustache knuckling, re-arranging knecklaces BS. ...

And those of us who enjoy the finer descriptive writing styles of it? Bah...I'd almost swear half the problem is people don't have any patience anymore to actually sit down and read something. If a book has less then 700 pages I'm feeling gypped when I buy it. If I'm dropping $35 on a book I want something that is descriptive and in a stance of good quality writing.

How many people in this forum have even read an epic's for fun besides WoT? I'll bet that you can count them on one hand. Tho you might be pushing it and might have to goto both hands.

Vote Green!

--Infantryman
Proud to be part of the ACASM.

"Is it so hard to teach a child not to shoot people?"

My wife read the last book, and said she thought it was okay, but when she mentioned that

the whole Rogue Aes Sedai vs Tower is STILL not solved, AND that dumb twit Egwene / Egwain however it's spelled decided to go off on her own to raise the drawbridge, and got captured

(Secreted for those who don't want it spoiled)

that's what did it for me. I MIGHT read the whole thing if he ever finishes it, but it seems more and more likely he'll just die of old age before the shit ever gets finished. It's a shame, because in sheer scope and background, it's one of the coolest worlds ever developed. But I agree that he is totally out of control.

As for Bush / Kerry, great. Another elecion where both candidates are fucking dumbasses and it's a matter of the lesser of two evils. (And yes yes, Democrats, I know that you felt the greater evil got picked, I'm just fucking glad we never had to sit under "I invented everything!" Al Gore.)

I think Dubya did a good job after 9/11, but let the hawks in his administration get too far out of hand. I don't think Kerry is going to be really any better though.

Creston

You do realize that picture that was circulating a few weeks ago (of him and Fonda at a rally together) was proven a PhotoShop fake?

True. The guy pulls enough strange stuff on his own. He doesn't need photoshop.

Again, both choices totally stink. I don't know who I'm going to pull the lever for. They both make me want to vomit.

-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.com

Incomplete or illegible submissions will not be processed, honored, acknowledged or returned.

Soon as he gets home, he jumps in bed with Fonda protesting the war and going along with all the "baby killer" she and her cohorts were spitting out.

You do realize that picture that was circulating a few weeks ago (of him and Fonda at a rally together) was proven a PhotoShop fake?

http://www.kmfdm.net/